Thread: availability

As many of you know it's not always easy to survive on home inspections alone. Because of this, many of us have other income sources. These other sources can affect our availability to schedule home inspectons.

As part of your description of your company,(on your website for example), do you think it's a good idea or bad idea to disclose your limited availability up front? Or, do you think it's better to take all calls and then sift out the ones that won't work for you?

If you were only available on certain days at certain time frames, why not say so up front?

I guess you could always convince someone, who would otherwise not call had you disclosed, to work your schedule.

Im just wondering if any of you had pondered this before.

Doing so John I think your just yelling your just a part time HI. Many may not chose you just on this alone. You'll have to sell yourself more on the phone to get the job I think. It may be your advantage though if your willing to schedule appointments on Sat. or Sun as many part timers do.

rick

John, EVERYONE has limited availability, the busier the inspector, the more limited your availability.
Most clients are looking to you to tell them when you can do their inspection. It makes no difference if you have inspections, a CE class, family obligations, etc. if you are booked, your booked. I would suggest just taking everything on a case by case basis and turn limited time into a positive like Rick suggested and specializing in weekend inspections if possible.

John, don't advertise when you can't work. Advertise when you CAN work. But if you are working inspections on a part time basis, just leave the description of your schedule open-ended.

There are always going to be people who for scheduling reasons of their own or whatever that can only attend an inspection on the weekend. However, the other buyers who really want you to perform the inspection will generally work with your schedule.

There is typically give and take on both ends.

As Jim stated everyone's availability is limited. My truck broke down last week, screwed my entire schedule for the week.
I don't understand why you would make it any type of advertising/website point when you are or aren't available.
Client calls and wants Tues at 0900 you either say yes or no. I can't remember how many times I've agreed to a time and the client calls back minutes or hours later to change it because something came up. The time that an insp is scheduled is dependent on many others besides yourself, don't knock yourself out of the box from the start.
As far as other work, I try not to take on things that take more than a couple/few days or that I can get away from for a 1/2 day when an HI call comes in.
You are 'always' available for a customer looking to write a check.

If you're just busy doing other things it's fine. We've had problems keeping guys busy if/when their schedule is always full at the same time. For example, a guy who can only do inspections that start before noon. Sooner or later you'll get a real estate agent or buyer who just wants an afternoon inspection. I'll often get requests for '3 PM any day'. Telling someone that you can just NEVER start after 12 is very limiting. Telling them you can only do a 3PM job on Thursday or Friday is much better.

So, I guess it depends on what your exact situation is. In any case, I wouldn't advertise it up front. You will lose work before you even get a call.

Never admit you are a"part timer". Talk to the client or prospect with a positive approach that you are heavily booked but you can get them "in" on the days you are available. Your telephone time with the prospect which is usually less then 3 minutes has to be positive and convey the idea that you are the best home inspector and not using you would be a bad decision. Practice your "telephone pitch". You will be surprised how many more inspections you will close.

John
I don't limit my time in the marketing material. It is much easier to talk directly with prospective customers and find a time that works for everybody. I cannot remember a potential client that was to inflexable to work with. Most people know we have things on our calendar before they call.
Chuck

There always some people who for whatever reason have one day and one time slot only when they can attend an inspection. I'll never understand these people. You're buying a house and you only have 3 hours on one day out of the entire week when you can make yourself available?

Nick,

Have you forgot about the things that have to be done like the appt.'s for the botox injections, the nail salon, the childrens soccer, football, baseball, dance, music recitals, shrink doctors, orthodonists, mommys brunch with the ladies, the sales at Macy's and Neimans, the repairs on the Mercedes or the Mini-van. Don't forget about they got to hire a new nanny since the move is happening.

Who has time to meet with the Home Inspector? After all, the agent said they'd go over the report with them anyway.

rick

Mr. Obama... I have a full calendar for the next couple of weeks... however, I did leave myself some "me" time this weekend... and, I suppose, i can give some of that up to help you...
I can do your inspection this Saturday at 9 am...
Well.. you do not have to be present... just make sure that your real Estate person has all the utilities turned on and opens the place up for me.
and I'll have your report ready for you in no time.....

I hate to sound like a complete jerk but I schedule the appointments after getting all their info and then call them back as to when they should come. I don't want them there until I am done so it always works out. If I do them in the morning I have them show up just before noon. If I do them in the afternoon I have them show up at about 4. They can either take a long lunch to meet me or get off work early.

Hey. When home depot makes a delivery to a home owner they give them a 4 hour time slot in the morning or a time period in the afternoon and they never really know when in that time slot they will show up.

If they have furniture delivered, same thing. If their car needs repair they make arrangements to drop it off or pick it up. Why is it that so many inspectors have a hard time telling their clients when to arrive at the inspection.

You may be doing the inspection for them but you do not work for them or around their schedule.

Sometimes they ask if I do the inspections on week ends and I say yes then tell them when to show up. I have had so few that have had any problem with it that the amount isn't worth trying to add up. Practicaly none, in years.

That approach may work for you Ted but it wouldn't fly up here in PA. Buyers here are pinned to your side but I really don't mind it as long as they give me room to work and I'm not tripping over them. Plus, they're paying for the inspection and they're going to be living in the house. I want them to ask questions.

I'd rather have them there for the entire inspection so I don't have to rehash everything at the end or walk back around and show them everything or spend an hour on the phone with them explaining what is in their report.

I know you say you don't work for them but if buyers didn't call you to inspect their houses and pay you, who would you be working for?

I would not advertise the limited time I am available for an inspection. Take all calls tell them you are already booked at that time (they don't need to know you are booked at another type of job) see if you can arrange a time when it is convenient for both of your schedules. It always looks better to be busy. If you can not come to a time when you can do the inspection refer them to another inspector do not leave them on their own.

This is where being a member of a local home inspector chapter helps. You get to meet other inspectors learn from each other an when things like this come up you can refer someone you know and trust. Hopefully when things are reversed and the other inspector is booked he will refer you in return.

Join a local chapter. I belong to ASHI and the Northern Illinois Chapter a great source of knowledge an comradere.

Steve Reilly
Owl Inspection Services
Villa Park, IL

Just got a call from a buyer who is in town from CA. for the holidays and is wanting an inspection actually on Christmas day.

I have never ever worked on Christmas day, but when he mentioned he would triple my fee and toss in some hefty gift cards to a 5 star restaurant in the Dallas area he's got my attention.

He said he'd even give me his credit card and I could run it through before coming out to assure payment was taken care of.

Since we're celebrating Christmas eve at our home, and my sons will be with there inlaws Christmas afternoon this is an opportunity I am considering.

What would you do?

Rick

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

What would you do? Rick

Rick,

Maker sure the seller (assuming house is occupied) is done with their unwrapping of gifts and have all the paper, etc. picked up.

Nolan,

Its vacant, and its not even a foreclosure. 4800 sq. ft. 1yr. old

I'd be napping anyway if I was home.

rick

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Nolan,

Its vacant, and its not even a foreclosure. 4800 sq. ft. 1yr. old

I'd be napping anyway if I was home.

rick

Rick,

That HI is a 'gift' in itself. Enjoy!!

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

That approach may work for you Ted but it wouldn't fly up here in PA. Buyers here are pinned to your side but I really don't mind it as long as they give me room to work and I'm not tripping over them. Plus, they're paying for the inspection and they're going to be living in the house. I want them to ask questions.

I'd rather have them there for the entire inspection so I don't have to rehash everything at the end or walk back around and show them everything or spend an hour on the phone with them explaining what is in their report.

I know you say you don't work for them but if buyers didn't call you to inspect their houses and pay you, who would you be working for?

Nick I understand where you are coming from. As far as who I work for? Me!!! I am doing a home inspection for them. The home inspection is my business and my rules as well as the states rules. They come the whole time and the likelihood of you missing something or forgetting to jot it down is many fold greater. You do them a better justice if you do the home inspection, get everything in the report and then do a walk around after hitting the print button. Having them there the whole time The inspection takes much longer, you don't get into the physical report, you have to do the report later and then send it off to them, then you have to go over it on the phone as well as doing the entire inspection with them that already used more of your time. It makes for to hectic and way to much time on one inspection. When you add up all your time with a 3 to 4 hour inspection with them there, go home and do the report (always takes longer) and you are not at the home doing the report if questions come up in your mind and cannot take a few seconds of time to double check on the item. I am guessing you are spending a minimum of a couple to 3 hours on the report at home. Then because they did not see the actual report they are calling you and asking questions. God man, think about it. You must be spending between scheduling, inspecting, explaining to you client, driving home, doing the report, getting a copy off to whom ever needed and then the phone calls from you client 8 hours for the inspection.

I spend between scheduling, inspecting, reporting and walk around, maybe 4 hours (some more on larger homes). Also, I almost never get calls from my clients about anything to do with the inspection or report.

I have just found over the years that the clients are much better served. Dedicated time just with them going over all the findings (to answer your question earlier, that is what they come for, the findings. Reporting on site cutting down almost any chance of missing or forgetting something cause you are there to double check.

This may not work sometimes because of the size of the home or the scale of the inspection with the home.

What I do and how I do it appears to have no negative affect toward me or my clients. It may just be the way I handle it. I treat my clients with respect and dignity. This may not be for other folks but has served me very well for a very long time.

Like I said, I did not want to appear as some disrespectful jerk and I do not handle it as such. The details are much deeper in detail but is difficult to explain in that detail. I have talked with many inspectors in the past and once they tried this approach they find it much more workable and have commented that they have a life other than inspecting. Much more free time to take care of the rest of your life that does not have to do with inspecting.

Who knows. Try it. You may like it and may be commenting to me in the future as others have about having a life other than the ball and chain of working the day job and extending it into the night. I hear so many on here commenting about finishing up a report at 11:00 pm. It never happens with me. I am usually done at 5 or 6 even with 2 inspection (if I have 2 inspections) in a day.

You're pretty close on the time thing Ted. I know I spend way too much time on an inspection between the actual inspection, report time, travel time, and setting it up. Minimum of 5 hours to 8 or more per job. That part is frustrating. I don't mind the time spent at the inspection. I expect that. The time spent on the report is what makes me want to pull my hair out. I tried doing reports on the spot when I started inspecting but it wasn't for me. I'd rather do them at home. But I don't get many calls from my clients either despite the fact they get the report the next day.

If what you're doing works for you, more power to you. I just couldn't see it working up here. That's all.

Nick,

You sound oh so familar. My son who worked with me (note prior past tense) was a great HI but was not a report writer. I could send him out on a job with no worries about him doing his job but when he got back to the office he would freeze up mentally when trying to put his findings on the report. I used to tell him to write it up as he seen it and not to get so caught up in tech talk, but he just couldn't do it.

Back then we'd both be doing 2 inspections a day, come home, eat dinner, a little family time and then jump on the computer. I can knock out a report usually in about an hour and do my best report writing after 11pm. My son would start in around 8pm and be up somenights till 2am. You just can't put that much time in a report, sleep and hit it again the next day.

He had to give it up as it was starting to kill our relationship and his marriage. Too many hours will do that.

I'm sure in the area your in that you are dealing with a lot of defects on your inspections just due to the age of the homes. Wish I knew the answer to help you out.

Rick

I have been in the Home Inspection full time for about 4 years. I find it takes me about 4 hours to inspect a home and another 2 hrs to write the report. I have used printed forms which I gave to the client at the end of the inspection and computerized reports which I email. About a year ago I decided to only use computer based reports. I find that reviewing photos adds to the depth of the report. It still takes about 6 hours total for the final report and inspection. This averages out to $50-$75 per hour per report.

I love the profession and could not imagine do anything else for a living.

"WORK IS DOING SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO DO NOT WANT TO DO"

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Just got a call from a buyer who is in town from CA. for the holidays and is wanting an inspection actually on Christmas day.

I have never ever worked on Christmas day, but when he mentioned he would triple my fee and toss in some hefty gift cards to a 5 star restaurant in the Dallas area he's got my attention.

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Nolan,

Its vacant, and its not even a foreclosure. 4800 sq. ft. 1yr. old

Rick,

I've never worked on Christmas Day either, but for triple the fee ... that $12k-$15k would sure get me through until the end of the year.

Did you tell him what your normal fee was? L.O.L.

I would do it just for the fun of it... the cash is the fun of it...

IF the guy was going to pay $ 1,800 for the inspection i would do the job.

L.O.L.

Best

Ron

Fritz,

This is the beauty of it though. He met with me today to sign his agreement, got the keys from the builder, and he has already paid me with his Black American Express card with an approval code.

rick

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Fritz,

This is the beauty of it though. He met with me today to sign his agreement, got the keys from the builder, and he has already paid me with his Black American Express card with an approval code.

rick

When you say his agreement Are you saying one he drafted or your basic home inspection agreement.

Rick,
Good for you! If I could get permission from the boss to work on Christmas day, I would, just for the reasons you outlined. We always go to the movies on Christmas day, so I guess we would miss them, or go later.

I usually don't work on Sundays, but have for almost the same conditions you have. I say go for it.

I for one, want my clients there with me at the inspection. I have very few call backs, or question calls. I'm convinced that it's because I spend so much time with them at the inspection, showing them things, explaining things, and developing a relationship with them. I'm also convinced that is the reason why I get so many referrals from previous clients.

They see how hard I work for them. They understand why I can't do some things (like walk on the steep wet roof). I have taken time to develop their trust.

I think inspectors that don't want their clients with them are missing out on a huge referral base. But, just because it works for me, does not mean it will work for everyone.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM, well Rick, if you don't want to do it for that, I'd be more than happy to, lol

Nick, have you ever tried telling your clients why it would be better for them to let you do your thing and then you will give them all the time they need at the end to go over the findings. I have had people many times say at the start of the inspection, "I am going to follow you around during the inspection" I always tell them that I can focus on my work better without the distractions of them following me around during the inspection" They invariably have no problem with it. I always take my time during the walk through to answer their questions and it has not been a problem. I guess it is just what ever you are used to, but I can do a better job without them looking over my shoulder the entire time. As far as reports, maybe you need better reporting software that you can customize so that you do not have to do much custom typing.

I know I have spent many nights working way too late and it is just not worth it. You need to get the report writting time down. I have mine down to about 30 minutes on an easy house and about an hour on a crap hole. I use a PDA at the inspection and upload to a laptop where I do the editing and adding pics and defect discriptions. Then I email all the reports. I have not done a printed report in years.

The time I spend on the inspection isn't the problem Frank. I expect to spend roughly three hours inspecting the property. It's the amount of time it takes to do the reports. I think the inspections would be the same length of time whether my client sticks with me or I follow-up with them at the end.

Labeling the pictures is what adds a fair chunk of extra time to my report writing time. I think something I can do to at least cut back on the amount of pictures I take and need to subsequently label is to limit the pics to hard-to-see defects or ones that I know carry a higher cost-to-repair value. All defects would still be notated in the report but I wouldn't take a picture of all of them, such as a corroding sink drain trap line (I also carry a digital voice recorder for note taking). I take anywhere from 60-100 pics per inspection depending on the house and I give my client every picture and I label just about every one. Labeling pictures alone adds 30-45 minutes to my report time.

If it wasn't for the pics, my reports would likely take about 1 - 1.5 hours. But unfortunately, this area has many older houses and many that are in various degrees of disrepair as John A. could also atest.

WOW, That is way too many pics. I take a bunch of pics, 40 on avg, but only about 5 to 10 make it into the report. Things like attic and crawl pics that I don't show the client on the walk through. You should definately cut that way back. Some of those pics are self explanetory as well and I do nothing but add them in next to the paragraph in the report.

I agree with Frank, that is a lot of pictures. Nick, what do you mean by labeling the pictures?? Are you talking about adding maybe some arrows and some text on the pictures?

Have you ever tried a program called Whisper Image Edit Lite. Used to be a free download but it works great and quickly. ImageEditLite, Free and Simple Image Annotation Software from Whisper Computer Solutions, Inc.

I try not to add more than 10 pictures to any report and only post those that the client may not be able to physically see such as defects in the attic, roof, electrical panel....

If your clients are with you and you show them the defects as you go through your inspection, I see no need to place all of those same items on the inspection report.

JMHO

rick

Here's an example of what I mean by labeling my pics Rick. Some pics will also get lines pointing to or circles around the actual defect.

I think when all is said and done, I'm actually doing the same report twice, both in pictures and in text. The report system I use is one I put together myself but trying to plug pics into it just adds a ridiculous amount of KBs to the report and makes my system bog down when I try to e-mail it. Therefore, I send my clients a text based report and a separate picture file.

I'm sure I can and should cut back on the number of pics to save myself some headaches.

Using the whisper program allows you to use color and all types of fonts too.

Are you typing the text on the report and on the pictures also.

rick

Here's another one of it.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

I take anywhere from 60-100 pics per inspection depending on the house and I give my client every picture and I label just about every one.

Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere

WOW, That is way too many pics. I take a bunch of pics, 40 on avg, but only about 5 to 10 make it into the report.

I agree with Nick, I used to take 150-300 photos and EVERY ONE went into my reports.

I had a macro which would automatically insert up to 600 photo into my report, making a table as it went, two columns wide for two photos wide, four rows high per page, this allowed for a photo, a photo, a blank cell to type in comments under the photo above, a blank cell to type in comments under the photo above, then repeat for the second row of photos.

That would give a photo with comments under it, another photo next to it with comments under it, then another double row for the next two photos and their comments. There would be four of the attached per page. I also had a macro I wrote to insert two per page and six per page. I started at two per page, but that created way too many pages of photos, so I went to four per page - I found that worked best for me as I did not like the small size of the photos at six per page.

Inserting the photos only took a minute or two, it was automatic and the time depended on the number of photos being inserted.

Entering the comments for each photo took several hours, sometimes half-a-day or more.

I would encircle the area in the photo at times (not all photos needed that).

I would, however, have stated that differently for that photo, here is why:
- "Active elevated moisture levels"? "Active" "elevated moisture levels"? You mean "Active leak indicated by elevated moisture levels.", right?

- "and damaged wall materials", what about the framing behind the wall materials? The client is going to think you are talking about the damaged drywall only.

Also, to me, I did not like "blocking and hiding" the part of the photo behind the text, I liked the text separately and only annotated the photos with circles, ellipses, etc.

The points shared are well taken. I've not been advertising any limitations up front and I will not change that method. I'll fill the slots that I can and kick the other potentials to the members of my local HI chapter association. I've sent 1/2 dozen referrals to other Hi's already. I'm making sure to recommend people I know can do a good job of putting the clients interests first, just as I'd have done.

I'm always happy to start a thread that gets good discussions going. I'm enjoying this one.

On the subject of labeling and arrowing pictures, have any of you used PhotoScape? It's a free program with just about everything you need in one utility. Very easy to use.

Photoscape : Free Photo Editing Software Download

I label several pics and may put a lot more into the report but those are mostly general pics

Seriously. If there is a leak at the trap under the kitchen sink do you really have to label it? They can't figure that one out for themselves? There are no downspout extentions or splash blocks at the bottom of the down spouts. Do you really need a labeled picture for that? As some have said, you are doing a walk around with them and in many cases it appears the buyers are there the whole time anyway and see and know what you are talking about in the written report.

Isn't to much really to much and redundant?

Is a 100 page report really telling tham anymore than a 20 page report or is it just time eating craziness that is just being extreme overkill.

I do not mean this as a knock but don't you think you could easily cut the reporting time in half with practically no thought and no less of a report or inspection and save the buyers eyeballs for something better to look at?

Some folks think a bigger or longer report justifies their inspection fees. Your inspection fees are justified by your knowledge.

Jerry???????????????????????????????????????

300 pictures all labeled and given to your client???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

I average about 100 pics per inspection. Maybe 25 or so make the report.

Some of the pics are purely cya. In a furnished house, I may need to illustrate why I couldn't see certain portions. The pic would show the furniture or whatever blocking my view. It happens in garages and basements too with all the stored stuff blocking full views.

I'll take 10 pictures of bushes growing into the house but maybe only use 2 of them in the report. Stuff like that.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I would, however, have stated that differently for that photo, here is why:
- "Active elevated moisture levels"? "Active" "elevated moisture levels"? You mean "Active leak indicated by elevated moisture levels.", right?.

Yes, and no. The stain and moisture level in that particular area is more a product of the way the house was built in relation to the adjacent property. The other property has a patio surface running above the 1st floor interior floor surface of the inspected property and with the stacked stone walls of the house being porous and wicking up moisture, this one I'd say is more of a moisture migration issue as opposed to an outright leak but I guess that depends on how water runs off the surface of the patio. The text in my report delved into this a little more clearly to state the grading-to-interior floor surface relationship.

"and damaged wall materials", what about the framing behind the wall materials? The client is going to think you are talking about the damaged drywall only.

The text I use in the pics is more brief than what appears in the actual report. The report states that all moisture damaged wall materials should be replaced. Plus, I addressed this issue extensively with the client at the inspection so he knows there is more to this than just wet drywall.

Also, to me, I did not like "blocking and hiding" the part of the photo behind the text, I liked the text separately and only annotated the photos with circles, ellipses, etc.

Agreed. Makes sense to not cover any section of the pic if it can be avoided.

Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr

Some of the pics are purely cya.

The photos should not be "purely cya", they should be depicting information for your client. If they also CYA, then so be it.

In fact, every single photo you insert can be considered CYA as you are providing information to your client, and you are *including a friggin' photo of it* so they can more easily understand what you are reporting. In that same sense, everything in your report is CYA.

Yeah, that is not only "providing information", but it is also "CYA" ... but to include photos which "are purely cya"???

Nick,

You don't have an "active elevated moisture level", you may have an "elevated moisture level", but it is not "active".

'Something else' is "active" and is causing those elevated moisture levels.

Unless the moisture is moving around ... then, yeah, maybe the moisture level is "active" ... Dang!, It was here just a minute ago, now where did that moisture go? ... There it is! On that wall now!

Jerry, I use the term "active" when referring to an elevated moisture level because that's the terminology most of my clients and their agents will use when they ask me "Is the water stain on that ceiling active?". It makes it easier for all interested parties if I use terminology in my reports that they can understand and I am comfortable using. Plus, it keeps callbacks at a minimum.

Ted, you said....... "If there is a leak at the trap under the kitchen sink do you really have to label it? They can't figure that one out for themselves? There are no downspout extentions or splash blocks at the bottom of the down spouts. Do you really need a labeled picture for that?"

Yes, often times it is redundant but some people have varying levels of awareness and understanding about houses and the way things work and if they don't have a visual reminder, they just won't get, even if it is in the report and they can read it with their own two eyes. I think an argument can be made both ways to include or not include pics of lower cost-to-repair issues.

The amount of time I'm spending on reports certainly is not earning me Jerry Peck-type fees. And the fact that the extra time I spend on reports is not convincing people they should pay me more is reason enough for me to scale things back. They wouldn't get any less of a report, just fewer pics.

Not sure how a stain can be active. Leak yes, stain??????

I just use "Moisture stain in _______ tested WET with moisture meter", then show a photo of the meter.

Not sure I understand the confusion over the term active. Makes sense to me and my clients get it.

Jerry, when I said some are purely cya, those are among the ones that are not included in the report.

You made a good point though. I left it open and you filled in. It's a great example how leaving things "open" can get you into trouble.