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  1. #1
    JORY LANNES's Avatar
    JORY LANNES Guest

  2. #2
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
    Kevin Luce Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    A company has to show responsibility. Either have E&O or have enough money set aside just in case. If you do make a mistake and you know it after the fact, your clients shouldn't have to pay for it. I don't think you would want to pay for repairs when it is clear that your home inspector accidental missed it.

    Telling them you have E & O insurance is a different story.

    Just my opinion.

    You asked.


  3. #3
    Donald Merritt's Avatar
    Donald Merritt Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    E & O insurance is required in Tennessee in order to have a licenses.

    Don Merritt


  4. #4
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    E&O is just the right thing to do. you drive your car you have insurance. you buy a home you have insurance. you do inspection for people you should have insurance...

    777

    Best

    Ron


  5. #5
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Gotta have it in PA as part of the home inspection law we have.


  6. #6
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Gotta have it in PA as part of the home inspection law we have.
    You should have the option of posting a Bond or insurance.

    Best

    Ron


  7. #7
    JORY LANNES's Avatar
    JORY LANNES Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Interesting responses. In Illinois E&O is not required. In an informal survey of about 30 Inspectors only 13 Inspectors carried E & O insurance all with $5000 deductible co-pays.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    One real Joker in the deck is going to be tail insurance for people leaving the business this year.

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  9. #9
    Eric Shuman's Avatar
    Eric Shuman Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    It has been recently required in Texas as well. I had it before the requirement by choice. Will it actually protect you? That is the question. Regardless, with the deductible and the premiums you will pay something no matter what.

    I think it is a good idea, as well as liabilty insurance and a fidelity bond. Fidelity bonds are usually pretty cheap.

    Eric


  10. #10
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    I have E&O with a $5K deductible. Yes, I'm required to have it in the states I hold a license in. Yes, I would still have it if it was not required. Yes, I had it before it was required.

    Now that I have gotten that out of the way... If I screw-up, I know that if I'm named in a lawsuit that I have a limit to my loss. I do EW work for against and defending home inspectors. On the last case that I took on about two weeks ago I have already billed $3,800 and that is just my fee. Tack on the $350 an hour attorney, etc...... Thankfully this person has E&O.

    If it is a choice then be smart about what you do.

    As for a bond.. Unless you want to take a chance at loosing your home, retirement and anything else that could be claimed by the insurance company that backs that bond, I would think twice.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  11. #11
    Eric Shuman's Avatar
    Eric Shuman Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    As for a bond.. Unless you want to take a chance at loosing your home, retirement and anything else that could be claimed by the insurance company that backs that bond, I would think twice.

    Scott,

    How do you mean? Is this true for a fidelity bond? The fidelity bond I was offered by My EO provder was $75 for up to $5000 coverage in case of theft while I was at the residence.

    Thanks,

    Eric


  12. #12
    Joel Anderson's Avatar
    Joel Anderson Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Here in TX it's required to have E&O. I think it's smart whether it's required or not, just to give your backside some extra padding just in case. I think I paid around $600 a year for $100,000 coverage, it comes up about $45 a month.
    As for being bonded, I got a $5000 dishonesty bond for $80 a year.

    Either way it isn't an all too expensive way to give yourself some protection. Not that I ever plan on using any of it.


  13. #13
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
    Kevin Luce Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Anderson View Post
    Here in TX it's required to have E&O. I think it's smart whether it's required or not, just to give your backside some extra padding just in case. I think I paid around $600 a year for $100,000 coverage, it comes up about $45 a month.
    As for being bonded, I got a $5000 dishonesty bond for $80 a year.

    Either way it isn't an all too expensive way to give yourself some protection. Not that I ever plan on using any of it.
    $600 a year? Are you thinking General Liability? If not, please let me know who you are using so I can save a few thousand.


  14. #14
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    $600 a year? Are you thinking General Liability? If not, please let me know who you are using so I can save a few thousand.
    You can get 100,000 E&O with 2500 deductible for 750 and 1,000,000 in gen liabity for 500. The info is below. I believe I also have an honesty bond thrown in there

    Trey Kinder
    Liberty Union Insurance Services, Inc.
    1347 19th Street
    Plano, Texas 75074

    http://www.liberty-union.com/
    http://www.liabilitypro.com/
    (214) 621-1122 Cell
    (972) 423-2300 Ext 223
    (469) 361-3359 Fax

    "Referrals are the greatest compliment I can receive in my business! If you
    know anyone who is thinking of buying a home, relocation, or just wants a
    second opinion on their insurance (home, auto, or business insurance),
    please give them my name and number."


  15. #15
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Wow!!! Those prices are ridiculously low. I got a discount option from Allen this past year and it reduced my premiums from $4,000 down to about $3,100.

    E&O prices that are too low make me a bit leary. I still have the Michael Napadow thing in the back of my mind. Not that I got caught up in that scam but it just makes me wonder.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Shuman View Post
    Scott,

    How do you mean? Is this true for a fidelity bond? The fidelity bond I was offered by My EO provder was $75 for up to $5000 coverage in case of theft while I was at the residence.

    Thanks,

    Eric
    Any bond is going to be backed by an insurance company. If they have to pay because you don't have the money, or for whatever the bond is paid then that company will collect that money through subrogation in an attempt to recover what they paid in addition to any other cost associated with it.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  17. #17
    JORY LANNES's Avatar
    JORY LANNES Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Interesting. Everyone responding has insurance. Illinois does not require insurance. Many and I mean many Hi I know in Illinois do not have business insurance of any kind.


  18. #18
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Wow!!! Those prices are ridiculously low. I got a discount option from Allen this past year and it reduced my premiums from $4,000 down to about $3,100.

    E&O prices that are too low make me a bit leary. I still have the Michael Napadow thing in the back of my mind. Not that I got caught up in that scam but it just makes me wonder.

    Nope

    Real Insurance and real prices. I wanted a lower deductable but that is all they offer. Thats because they know the majority of folks that would miss something is in the extreme low dollar range and they will never have to pay anything out.

    If you take a look at the huge amount of home inspectors in this country and then look at the amount that actually ever get sued and then look at what actually gets paid out you will see what I mean. More and more home inspectors are required to get E&O hence the decreasing cost. If things go the way they are going and more and more inspectors drop out of the biz then you will more than likely see prices climb again.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Sure I have E&O because the state requires it. Yeah, its good business sense to have it but I'd sure rather have the money to be going toward a vacation or a nice Harley like Ron has out there in Cali.

    The reality is that the More you make, the more you have to spend and the more you do the higher is your liability.

    The insurance is easier to pay for I have found is if you just have it drafted from your business account monthly instead of having to write out that check every month.

    rick


  20. #20
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    In performing real estate inspections I wouldn't leave the house without at least 1 million of E&O insurance. Folks sue you no matter how thorough you run your inspection and if you have a binding arbitration agreement in your contract you may get some moron appointed arbitrator who thinks they're doing right by splitting the claim among all who are named.

    I had a half million E&O when I was in the trenches and got sued for $495,000. You think that amount was coincidental? Luckily I won. Oh, and by the way, if you should win the law suit don't forget to claim your deductible as part of the cost of your legal defense because the insurance carrier is still going to bill you for it win or lose !

    Please don't get me started on E&O carriers and how they select attorneys to defend you against a law suit. After years of EW work I should write a book on the dirty secrets of what really goes on. In short like all insurance it’s a numbers game, but the real sticky part is the attorneys involved for the defense.


    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  21. #21
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    I was the opposite of WC Jerry.

    17 years inspecting and never carried E&O.

    I did carry GL, first $1 mil then $2 mil.

    In 17 years I spent a total of 42 dollars and 50 cents (or was it $43.50? ) on fixing something, and that was in my first year.

    However, in this day and age, and in this economy where everyone wants their dollars worth, then some more, and will sue you to get it, I would have to think and ponder making that decision ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  22. #22
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    In performing real estate inspections I wouldn't leave the house without at least 1 million of E&O insurance. Folks sue you no matter how thorough you run your inspection and if you have a binding arbitration agreement in your contract you may get some moron appointed arbitrator who thinks they're doing right by splitting the claim among all who are named.

    I had a half million E&O when I was in the trenches and got sued for $495,000. You think that amount was coincidental? Luckily I won. Oh, and by the way, if you should win the law suit don't forget to claim your deductible as part of the cost of your legal defense because the insurance carrier is still going to bill you for it win or lose !

    Please don't get me started on E&O carriers and how they select attorneys to defend you against a law suit. After years of EW work I should write a book on the dirty secrets of what really goes on. In short like all insurance it’s a numbers game, but the real sticky part is the attorneys involved for the defense.
    An individual has the right to "Cumis Counsel" provided by his/her insurance carrier if the attorney originally assigned was not acting in the best interest of the insured.

    Best

    Ron


  23. #23
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    An individual has the right to "Cumis Counsel" provided by his/her insurance carrier if the attorney originally assigned was not acting in the best interest of the insured.

    Best

    Ron
    For those of you who were wondering!

    cumis counsel
    n. an attorney employed by a defendant in a lawsuit when there is an insurance policy supposedly covering the claim, but there is a conflict of interest between the insurance company and the insured defendant. Such a conflict might arise if the insurance company is denying full coverage. In some states (notably California) the defendant can demand that the insurance company pay the fees of his/her own attorney rather than use an insurance company lawyer. Often the insurance company will require that the attorney for the defendant be approved by the company.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  24. #24
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    For those of you who were wondering!

    cumis counsel
    n. an attorney employed by a defendant in a lawsuit when there is an insurance policy supposedly covering the claim, but there is a conflict of interest between the insurance company and the insured defendant. Such a conflict might arise if the insurance company is denying full coverage. In some states (notably California) the defendant can demand that the insurance company pay the fees of his/her own attorney rather than use an insurance company lawyer. Often the insurance company will require that the attorney for the defendant be approved by the company.
    Scott is correct. In calif you can demand cumis counsel and your insurance must pay for his services. he is like a watch dog looking out for you. and you get to pick him out.

    Best

    Ron


  25. #25
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    $600 a year? Are you thinking General Liability? If not, please let me know who you are using so I can save a few thousand.
    I paid about $550 for E&O (October 2008) and about $430 for GL here in Texas. It's a different company than Ted listed, but they are located in the metroplex also. There's a $5K ded and it's for $100K. Granted that's not much considering the cost of a new home, but it's a requirement here.

    I did purchase prior to being required. Originally I had a policy with a company in NY recommended through one of the national organizations. It had cost $1700/yr for less ded and slightly more coverage.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  26. #26
    Jack Ahern's Avatar
    Jack Ahern Guest

    Unhappy Re: E and O Insurance.

    Mandated in The Great Comm. of Mass. No insurance -no license -no work.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB Thompson View Post
    I paid about $550 for E&O (October 2008) and about $430 for GL here in Texas. It's a different company than Ted listed, but they are located in the metroplex also. There's a $5K ded and it's for $100K. Granted that's not much considering the cost of a new home, but it's a requirement here.

    I did purchase prior to being required. Originally I had a policy with a company in NY recommended through one of the national organizations. It had cost $1700/yr for less ded and slightly more coverage.
    I have a $500,000 with a $5K deductible and it includes a $500,000K GL policy as well. Includes corporate coverage and radon testing, plus more for $1,700 a year. I also have an umbrella $1M GL business policy that is independent of the above policy and I pay about $250 a year for it.

    My E&O is through Business Risk Partners and my standalone GL is through Shelter. Pricing all depends on your experience and the state that you live in.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  28. #28
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I have a $500,000 with a $5K deductible and it includes a $500,000K GL policy as well. Includes corporate coverage and radon testing, plus more for $1,700 a year. I also have an umbrella $1M GL business policy that is independent of the above policy and I pay about $250 a year for it.

    My E&O is through Business Risk Partners and my standalone GL is through Shelter. Pricing all depends on your experience and the state that you live in.
    I think the company I am with has the 500,000 with bond and a million in general for under 2,000, I think a mill E&O and other mentioned is 2 ish maybe a little more. Anyways there seems to be a few companies out there selling things at proper prices.


  29. #29
    JORY LANNES's Avatar
    JORY LANNES Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    I WOULD LIKE TO REPHRASE THE QUESTION. ARE THERE INSPECTORS ON THIS SITE THAT DO NOT....DO NOT HAVE E & O INSURANCE?


  30. #30
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by JORY LANNES View Post
    I WOULD LIKE TO REPHRASE THE QUESTION. ARE THERE INSPECTORS ON THIS SITE THAT DO NOT....DO NOT HAVE E & O INSURANCE?

    I did not use to until it was required. I think what a lot of us are saying is that it is cheap enough to get nowadays to get so to not have it there is no escuse. There is that chance in thousands that your number may come up where you wish you did. I personaly never had it from my first inspection decades ago until a few months ago. I don't know how many inspections that is but a lot. It is starting to cut those odds down so it is more against my favor that my number may come up.

    It use to be a minimum of a few thousand or slightly less depending on the coverage. Now it is well under a couple thousand to get maybe a million and maybe including a mil in general liability.

    I get the minimum required by my state 100,000 and a million in general liability and an honesty bond for right at 1,200 total. For that money it is almost not worth it to not have it.


  31. #31
    Richard Phillips's Avatar
    Richard Phillips Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Hi, I'm Richard Phillips, co-owner of Liberty Union Insurance Services in Plano, TX.

    The insurance we sell is real, it is with national, A rated carriers, and is reasonably priced. We are an independent agency, and in 2007 saw the need for a good product when Texas Home Inspectors were forced to purchase insurance. We encountered inspectors paying $2000-$4000, and we set out to find/develop a program with excellent coverage and that's affordable, which would in turn benefit our agency by capturing a large share of home inspector policies.

    Our E&O policy for home inspectors:
    - Does NOT have exclusions for pool/spa, septic, radon, infrared.
    - Includes visual termite inspection coverage
    - Is with a state 'admitted' carrier, meaning that the carrier has passed muster with the state department of insurance on policy language, financial strength, and pricing approval.
    - 'Admitted' into a state also means you don't pay any taxes or fees on top of the quoted premium. No surprises.
    - Has the 'Additional Insured (Automatic Pursuant to Contract)' clause. This means that if you have a written contract with someone to list them as additional insured on your E&O, they will be treated as additional insured without going through the time or expense of actually having them added to the policy.

    Regarding the price disparity of our product vs others in the market: Prices fluctuate up and down according to the loss history, the risk profile, and the size of the pool of insured home inspectors that any one insurance company services. The larger the pool of insureds, the more accurate the loss data, and the better capable a company is to absorb losses. Our insurance carrier grouped Home Inspectors in with other E&O groups (appraisers, real estate brokers, etc), creating a larger pool from which to draw on for loss data, and funds for losses when incurred. I believe this to be the biggest contributing factor in the price disparity.

    We are available any time for questions or comment.

    Regards,
    Richard

    Richard Phillips and Janice Smith
    Liberty Union Insurance Services, Inc.
    1347 19th Street
    Plano, Texas 75074
    Texas Commercial Liabiity, Commercial Auto and other Commercial Liability programs - free online TX commercial insurance quotes
    Professional Liability Insurance for Texas Home Inspectors and Real Estate and Mortgage Agents from Liability Pro.com


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    “Referrals are the greatest compliment I can receive in my business! If you know anyone who is thinking of buying a home, relocation, or just wants a second opinion on their insurance (home, auto, or business insurance), please give them my name and number.”


  32. #32
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    Muncie, Indiana
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    Angry Re: E and O Insurance.

    I do not have a state requirement to carry E & O but used to carry it through another commitment. I do not carry it now. I have had 2 claims in 8 years that I did not agree with. The first one was within 1 year of business. I had a 1Mil coverage with $5000 deduct. The insurance carrier did not care that I had the complaint covered in my inspection report. They called within a week and said they wanted to settle and I should send my $5k to them. I disagreed and instead told them I would fight personally. It took two years and I ended up paying them $500 for them to drop me. Of course, I paid my attorney $1500 for 3 letters I sent using their letterhead, but was less than they wanted.
    Round two I had again 1Mil coverage but this time with $1000 deduct. I had again good verbage in my report covering the complaint. This comment came from the well respected adjuster at a sponsor featured on this page. I felt good about that over the weekend. That next Monday, I get a call from the New York office stating we will settle for $7000 and please send my $1000 in to them.
    I believe my chances of winning an E&O claim with those standards are nil.
    I believe that deep pockets of an E&O policy is a good target for anyone wanting to make a quick buck.
    I also believe if you do your job well and identify the defects visible and state your limitations well, you are well on your way to no problems. I have had two complaints since I dropped E&O and both times I was able to defend myself with the report given to them. Do I make misteaks? Sure I do. Do I own up to them? Sure I do. Do I take chance by not having E&O? Sure I do.
    Just the same as I take chances every time I open up an electric panel or walk a roof. I use the tools available to make my job safer but wouldn't use any tool that works against me for their benefit.
    I believe Jerry P says it best when he states "failed under testing" should be used more often and the importance of carrying GL coverage(which is required in my state anyway).
    Sorry for the rant.

    Last edited by Jeff Gainey; 01-10-2009 at 01:47 PM. Reason: clarification

  33. #33
    JORY LANNES's Avatar
    JORY LANNES Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Thank you Jeff for your candor. I agree with every thing your position and outlook. What about the fact that almost every inspector is an LLC or Corporation? Can the corporate Vail be easily pierced?


  34. #34
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    There are many on this forum that know all the answers about this and I respect their opinion. I believe there are ways attorneys get around the corporate umbrella protection if they want to. If you use your business checking for personal reasons, there is a loophole. Many more I am sure....


  35. #35
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by JORY LANNES View Post
    Thank you Jeff for your candor. I agree with every thing your position and outlook. What about the fact that almost every inspector is an LLC or Corporation? Can the corporate Vail be easily pierced?
    I'm sure people will disagree, I assure you this is the truth. The LLC/Corp. veil only protects shareholders from your negligence; it does not protect you from your own negligence. You will still be held accountable.

    Anyone can come after you and your personal belongings (which is why we all formed LLCs, right?). Whether or not they receive them will depend on the judge in the matter.

    My .02 cents,
    Bruce, an LLC'er

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  36. #36
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by JORY LANNES View Post
    Thank you Jeff for your candor. I agree with every thing your position and outlook. What about the fact that almost every inspector is an LLC or Corporation? Can the corporate Vail be easily pierced?
    Depending on the particular circumstances any vail can be pierced. Hiding behind an LLC or full blown corporation will only protect one personaly depends on all cicumstances involved. As in the case where you have to pay the insurance carrier it does not matter if you have a corporation or not. You will be paying the money such as the 5,000 or 1,000 whether your company has the funds or not. They are insuring you as a home inspector. You will pay. As far as clients getting money from you personally, you are better protected with a full corporation but still depending on the full circumstances you may not be fully protected personally. An LLC is limited liability personally.


  37. #37
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Gainey View Post
    There are many on this forum that know all the answers about this and I respect their opinion. I believe there are ways attorneys get around the corporate umbrella protection if they want to. If you use your business checking for personal reasons, there is a loophole. Many more I am sure....
    How true. Use your business debit card once at JC Penny for personal use and you just mixed business with personal. Or make a house payment that you do not claim as your personal income. Everyone out there is guilty of something like that.


  38. #38
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    At last count I have worked on 53 lawsuits over the past ten years that involved home inspectors. I would say that on 1/2 of those cases I was hired by the plaintiff, in other words I work both sides.

    Out of all of those cases I would say that maybe 10 of the home inspector were not at fault and were just named in the lawsuit along with everyone else involved in the sale of the home (Shotgun lawsuit). This is a bad luck lawsuit.

    Very seldom do any of the home inspectors think or admit that they did anything wrong or missed anything in the inspector and report. When a litigation consultant like Jerry P, Jerry M or myself are hired you can bet that we can find a problem in about 98% of the inspections and or the reports. I really hate to tell an attorney that they should settle and not go to trial with the case but at times this is the best course of action. So many times it is not the insurance company or the attorney that is deciding if the case should be settled or proceed to court.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  39. #39
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    Cool Re: E and O Insurance.

    I echo Scott’s statement and as far as finding a missed defect one must never forget that there is no such thing as a “perfect house” or a “perfect inspection” or a flawless “inspection report.” Also like Scott my retainer as a construction industry EW has traditionally been about 50-50 between claimants and the defense in HI cases. Often the overlooked defect is small in monetary value and I almost always recommend settlement because in the long run the old expression, “A bad settlement is often better than a good law case” usually holds. My consulting as an EW on construction defects goes back to the early 80s and mainly involved contractor/owner disputes. However, in the last 10 years it has moved almost exclusively into home inspector litigation, which most know became a fast growing industry once our friends with "Esquire" after their name became aware that most inspectors carry E&O insurance. Something about insurance companies being extraordinary “deep pockets” is irresistible nectar to our beloved legal profession. There is much to talk about and share on this subject, but the boss is calling me and I must obey and leave you now.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  40. #40
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    My agent just email me and said my E&O coverage was dropped by James River, they have gotten out of the Real Estate Market. So, he switched me to another company for the same price.

    My agent's comment stated: What happened was James River’s reinsurance came up for renewal on July 1, 2008 and the reinsurance company told James River that they did not want anything to do with property insurance due to the sub prime problem which included mortgage brokers, title companies, property managers, appraisers, home inspectors, real estate agents, etc.

    So, pretty much anyone having to do with real estate has been dropped.

    Austin Structural Inspections
    email: larson@austinstructural.com
    web: www.austinstructural.com

  41. #41
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Larson View Post
    My agent just email me and said my E&O coverage was dropped by James River, they have gotten out of the Real Estate Market. So, he switched me to another company for the same price.

    My agent's comment stated: What happened was James River’s reinsurance came up for renewal on July 1, 2008 and the reinsurance company told James River that they did not want anything to do with property insurance due to the sub prime problem which included mortgage brokers, title companies, property managers, appraisers, home inspectors, real estate agents, etc.

    So, pretty much anyone having to do with real estate has been dropped.
    I received several calls this past October from folks trying to bail out of their homes. They were looking for someone to pay the tab for things they chose not to ask to get fixed or fix themselves. Maybe five calls. I maybe had one fool once a year before that that was looking for a free ride. Since October I have received no calls at all. Hopeflly never again.

    I can understand the fear that the insurance man was stressing about. Those folks that called me probably had someone tell them that all Texas inspectors had to have E&O so try to get the inspector to pay for it.


  42. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    How true. Use your business debit card once at JC Penny for personal use and you just mixed business with personal. Or make a house payment that you do not claim as your personal income. Everyone out there is guilty of something like that.
    Maybe I just listened more closely than others when my accountant and attorney spoke.... but, making a house payment and shopping at the mall for personal items??????? Are you kidding?????? Of course, you're busted if you do that. Buying some work clothes at the mall.... maybe. A house payment?????? That's just ridiculous. If you're ignorant enough to make your house payment out of your corporation account you deserve to lose it all in a lawsuit.... Sorry, not trying to throw flames at anyone but that's just ridiculous.


  43. #43
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    Maybe I just listened more closely than others when my accountant and attorney spoke.... but, making a house payment and shopping at the mall for personal items??????? Are you kidding?????? Of course, you're busted if you do that. Buying some work clothes at the mall.... maybe. A house payment?????? That's just ridiculous. If you're ignorant enough to make your house payment out of your corporation account you deserve to lose it all in a lawsuit.... Sorry, not trying to throw flames at anyone but that's just ridiculous.
    Calm down. I said mistakes. I hear of them all the time. Most of them are Innocent mistakes that temporarily got overlooked. Pull the wrong credit card out etc. Yes I know of folks that have made a mortgage payment in lieu of a paycheck and did not log it in as income right away.

    Matt. Seriously. It is not a perfect world. People don't always handle things just as they should be or like I said just an Innocent mistake like the credit card deal. My point was. Sh*t happens.

    I guess you have never sat around with friends and heard something that was less than perfect. If you have never heard about someone doing something less than perfect then I guess you an everyone you know is perfect. If you never heard of someone or Maybe, just Maybe, you have done something less than perfect or never made a mistake then you and everyone you ever met are heroes.

    Hmm, I know I have made mistakes in my life. I know everyone I ever met has made mistakes in their life.

    Have You ? Come on now. Have you?

    Ah, yes. I thought so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  44. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
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    Default Re: E and O Insurance.

    Of course I've made mistakes.... But......

    Sending a house payment out of your business account is a baaaaaaaaaaad idea, whether you document it or not. Reimbursements? Another bad idea. Any mixing of business and personal is just asking for trouble.

    Sorry, wasn't trying to be 'un-calm' - some things just surprise me.


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