Thread: ASHI and NAHI Merge

Have been hearing alot about the possiblity of NAHI and ASHI merging their organizations, anyone have any insight to this rumor?

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Originally Posted by Randy King

Have been hearing alot about the possiblity of NAHI and ASHI merging their organizations, anyone have any insight to this rumor?

Randy: No, but it would certainly be a move in the right direction.

Informal talks have been underway for a bit of time. The possibilities were discussed at IW in Orlando last week. Talks are continuing.

Several chapters have been having joint gatherings over past several months.

Early feedback appears to be quite positive.

Originally Posted by Randy King

Have been hearing alot about the possiblity of NAHI and ASHI merging their organizations, anyone have any insight to this rumor?

No rumor... This is what happened just last week:

At Inspection World a few of the NAHI officers were in attendance, they also attended and participated in part of the board meeting.

Many ASHI chapters have been doing joint meeting with NAHI chapters or they just simply invite them to their meetings with an open door policy. My chapter Mid-Tennessee ASHI does this and has done it for a couple of years.

Out of the InspectionWorld meeting many positive items came out of it. Both organizations will be looking at ways that they can do joint projects together, this would include national and local efforts.

From what I have seen and heard the majority of the folks are behind it. Of course you have those who are not and will most likely leave either organization if a merger happens. To this I say; "don't let the door hit you on the way out!". What many don't realize is that many members in both organizations hold joint memberships already.

I think it is a win win for the members in both organizations.

NAHI + ASHI=NASHI
NASHI + InterNACHI=InterNASHI

That would be interesting.

I think it is a win win for the members in both organizations

Scott: Agreed.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

I think it is a win win for the members in both organizations.

I have a feeling that the % of NAHI members that don't want to be part of ASHI wouldn't think this is a "win win" situation.

The thought of a merge by NAHI tells me a lot about that organization. Running something that can make it during good times but not during the bad times. Glad I never gave them a try.

The person that taught me this business was a past president of NAHI so that was my exposure into the business. Over the years, I think some of their ideas became a bit outdated and they really didn't change as the industry did. I don't have any affiliation with any national group at this time but if/when I do it will undoubtedly be ASHI. Overall, I think a merge between the two organizations would be a win for the industry as a whole.

I would not be opposed to this merger. Both are fine associations with real qualifications for membership. I belong to ASHI.

kevin Luce you always sign off your post with " I say let's merge all the home inspection organizations into one." My question to you is do you belong to any association?

Steve Reilly
Owl Inspection Services

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

I have a feeling that the % of NAHI members that don't want to be part of ASHI wouldn't think this is a "win win" situation.

The thought of a merge by NAHI tells me a lot about that organization. Running something that can make it during good times but not during the bad times. Glad I never gave them a try.

Kevin, not sure I follow your rationale that a possible merge with ASHI can be construed as a negative reflection on NAHI. If you think that lowly of NAHI, do you also have derogatory feelings towards ASHI for wanting to be associated with NAHI?

I think ASHI and NAHI merging is fantastic! Its a win, win for both organizations I hope the membership approves the merge.

Originally Posted by Steve Reilly

My question to you is do you belong to any association?

Steve Reilly
Owl Inspection Services

I belong to the Indiana Association of Building Officials. The cost for membership is cheap, the requirement to be a member is nothing but the people (including home inspectors) are extremely professional (makes me a better person). I am proud to belong to that group at this time.

The second place that I am happy with so far is the NACHI meetings that are geared for the local inspectors every second Tuesday of every month. It is a mixture of home inspectors that belong to ASHI, NAHI, InterNACHI and independents. We have respect for each other but yet voice our opinions, have CE classes that sometimes go beyond the basic understanding and enjoy each others company and yet still stay professional.

What's common with these two places is that people get together to learn, enjoy and respect.

Steve Reilly posted

Kevin, not sure I follow your rationale that a possible merge with ASHI can be construed as a negative reflection on NAHI. If you think that lowly of NAHI, do you also have derogatory feelings toward ASHI for wanting to be associated with NAHI?

You know what, I had a bad day due to the home inspection/Realtor and a few other things plus having the winter blues. I might be looking at this as a glass that is half empty. But to answer your question as fast as I can. Like some of these companies that are going out of business, they blame the ecomomy but normally it's how they run and/or ran things. To me, this possible "Merge" isn't being done for the betterment (noun: a change for the better; progress in development) for both NAHI and ASHI.

Reminds me of when they informed everyone at the place where my wife works that they hired a company to come in and help determine how they can improve on efficiency. This company they hired is laying off a lot of people but hasn't suggested how my wife or anyone else that is still there how to do their job more efficient.

Good night all.

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

I belong to the Indiana Association of Building Officials. The cost for membership is cheap, the requirement to be a member is nothing but the people (including home inspectors) are extremely professional (makes me a better person). I am proud to belong to that group at this time.

The second place that I am happy with so far is the NACHI meetings that are geared for the local inspectors every second Tuesday of every month. It is a mixture of home inspectors that belong to ASHI, NAHI, InterNACHI and independents. We have respect for each other but yet voice our opinions, have CE classes that sometimes go beyond the basic understanding and enjoy each others company and yet still stay professional.

What's common with these two places is that people get together to learn, enjoy and respect.

Steve Reilly posted

You know what, I had a bad day due to the home inspection/Realtor and a few other things plus having the winter blues. I might be looking at this as a glass that is half empty. But to answer your question as fast as I can. Like some of these companies that are going out of business, they blame the ecomomy but normally it's how they run and/or ran things. To me, this possible "Merge" isn't being done for the betterment (noun: a change for the better; progress in development) for both NAHI and ASHI.

Reminds me of when they informed everyone at the place where my wife works that they hired a company to come in and help determine how they can improve on efficiency. This company they hired is laying off a lot of people but hasn't suggested how my wife or anyone else that is still there how to do their job more efficient.

Good night all.

Kevin:

It is my hope that, through a merger of this type, the resulting organization will work to eventually put Mr. Gromicko and his followers out of business.

There's nothing like a cult to create insult.

Aaron

Many of Nick's members are new to the business and after a bit of time decide that this is not the business for them. They weed themselves out of the game without lowering the professionalism of the established professional groups.

Others stay with his ciber-group but some see through the smoke screen, become disenchanted, and decide to raise their standard's. Many become affilated with more professional ,responsible, and accountable organizations.

We need Nick's group to sift through and eliminate those looking for instant certification.

We need Nick's group to supply a few good dedicated people for the established professional inspector organizations.

We needed Nick's group to give a swift kick in the butt to get us back on track and focused.

Thank you Nick.

We needed Nick's group to give a swift kick in the butt to get us back on track and focused.

David: Agreed.

one might want to think historically about mergers. It has generally meant cutting
cost and eliminating competition , with the result being less services and higher
cost to the members. The socialist "click " mentality.
I get more info and help from Internachi than any other organization at this time.
Why should I switch ? If those in financial trouble want to gain ; then let more
competition come in , do a better job than the others, get less top heavy with
salaries of the "good guys",and lower the cost of ,membership.
Since the SOP's are very similar , the less qualified HI will be naturally
weeded out.
If the truth hurts , then they will have to learn the hard and more expensive way.

Originally Posted by Stephen DeCosta

one might want to think historically about mergers. It has generally meant cutting
cost and eliminating competition , with the result being less services and higher
cost to the members. The socialist "click " mentality.
I get more info and help from Internachi than any other organization at this time.
Why should I switch ? If those in financial trouble want to gain ; then let more
competition come in , do a better job than the others, get less top heavy with
salaries of the "good guys",and lower the cost of ,membership.
Since the SOP's are very similar , the less qualified HI will be naturally
weeded out.
If the truth hurts , then they will have to learn the hard and more expensive way.

Hi Stephen,

I'm curious and I'm not trying to bash or pick on anyone. You say that you get more from INACHI than any other group at this time. Would you mind stating just what you are getting from INACHI that you use in your day to day business?

A simple list of five items would be great.

What other organizations do you have a membership with?

Originally Posted by Stephen DeCosta

...The socialist "click " mentality....

I understand what you're saying about socialism, I guess, and that it's not your cup of tea, but what is the "click"? Just curious. I tried Googling socialist click mentality but didn't come up with anything.

Hi John,
I'm glad you asked. I will try to explain my view on the issue .
You might remember in High school , how there were "clicks" and those who
were not in the "cool" crowd were left out of activities and avoided or even made
fun of by the group. Organizations are much the same in how the operate.
Think of how democrats treat republicans when they are in majority, or
religious organizations, when in power, persecute those who do not share their
beliefs.
A web site that might give some understanding of these premises of "clicks" is on
google---" polarization and interest group politics"
I hope this is a help
SJD

Originally Posted by Stephen DeCosta

Hi John,
I'm glad you asked. I will try to explain my view on the issue .
You might remember in High school , how there were "clicks" and those who
were not in the "cool" crowd were left out of activities and avoided or even made
fun of by the group. Organizations are much the same in how the operate.
Think of how democrats treat republicans when they are in majority, or
religious organizations, when in power, persecute those who do not share their
beliefs.
A web site that might give some understanding of these premises of "clicks" is on
google---" polarization and interest group politics"
I hope this is a help
SJD

Gotcha. I know them as "cliques".

kevin

i am the education director of nahi in the rocky mountain chapter and we have had a great relationship with our ashi brothers during good times and what you call bad times--we educate together and i email many ashi members with educational tid bits---guess it is different in your world--what organization was that.

state only what is true in the world and not kevins

im busy where is that bad time

charlie

Hi Scott;
I'll try to answer you as best I can. As to "organizations' I believe you mean in
the home inspection industry. The answer is none.
I am involved with many organizations and a member of many also. In particular
"National Trappers Association" which over many years has taught me to watch
animal habits. That is how they get caught. With people it is much the same. I watch
and pay close attention to what they do, and not always to what they say; and that is how I determine what action to take.
As to Internachi, I have studied some time ago what NAHI, and ASHI had to offer ,
both to the individual and the industry as a whole. As a balance of those issues I've chosen to join Internachi. That is a freedom any person has at this time to enjoy.
The courses offered free to it's members by Internachi--I believe is not free with others.
1. Structual course
2. roofing course
3. Electrical course
4. Plumbing Course
5.Safety Practice Course
There are many other "Free" courses and "free" benefits to it's members. One
can look on the Internachi site and check out "membership Benifits"
Check it out and let me know if I'm missing out on something.
I find a fee for most anything and everything with other organizations, and what some might say "they are the best" My question is "why?" Where is the evidence? Or
what an old lady once said -"Where's the beef?"

Hi John ,
Thank you for your reply about "cliques". I'll remember the correct spelling in the future.

Hi Scott,
Also The Internachi, free courses are requirements for membership, thus paying to tag along,for a fee,with an established inspector on a number of actual home inspections,is a
benefit one does not have to pay for to get into the business. The "exclusionary"
wedge of those who want to increase profits by limiting competition is wiped out."in my opinion"
Those educational requirements also fine tune the incoming inspector with the
skills one might need to succeed.
Is not that what the free market is all about ? Is not that "one" important thing that made this country so great in years past?

stephen

i believe all organizations offer the same thing. joining a chapter for a measly $ 75 as my chapter does--will pay you back hundreds of dollars of fellowship-learning ce hours-ride alongs and anything you want--phone calls answered from the field if a member has questions. again i think this is going as all threads of this kind do--organaization bashing--we need to stop that---lets get along

charlie

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

stephen

i believe all organizations offer the same thing.

That's like saying that all home inspection reporting software offers the same thing. Basically that might be true but there are big differences.

again i think this is going as all threads of this kind do--organaization bashing--we need to stop that---lets get along

The attacks will never end. If it isn't InterNACHI or ASHI then it might be directed to the home inspectors that use check list reports; or it will be the home inspectors that offer re-inspections. Maybe it will be the home inspectors that use an infrared camera without charging for that service (I have seen these attacks personally).

How many times have I heard some guy getting attacked for printing "seeing in walls with an IR camera". Yet those attackers justify their attack by saying they are trying to help that person and if that is what they have to do for them to listen, fine.

If I remember right, some ASHI members were mad that NAHI allowed their members to do repairs even though they did the home inspection. NAHI overall must have felt at the time that it was fine but for some reason some ASHI members felt they had to strongly express their feeling on the subject.

The attacks might change but their will always be attacks.

kevin
chill out,,inspection software,infrared,,where are you going with this.where ever it is have a good trip, i getting off the bus.

what the heck

why would two ostensibly "successful" organizations merge? if they were both doing well, there would not be any merger.

Scott P., where is your list of 5 superlatives of associating with NAHI or ASHI? Why try to put Stephen on the spot? Why the peeing contest? Why do so many care about with whom they associate with?

Why can't we all just get along? Like Kevin's local group.

All of the NAHI and ASHI folks that bash NACHI come off as a bit elitist. As if NO ASHI or NAHI inspector is a rube.

Wasn't NAHI founded by disgruntled ASHI inspectors?

A merger of these two orgs. is not a position of strength....rather it exposes the weaknesses of both groups. If they can't survive alone, a merger doesn't make them any better. Less choice does not make a better option.

I think Kevin is spot on.

my two pence worth.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Gotcha. I know them as "cliques".

John: Obviously, the elements of proper spelling is a video that INACHI does not have on its site. Nick is missing a great opportunity here. Nick, are you listening?

I can see it now. Nick partners with some worn-out ex-pro ball player to fund a new sister site, ABCs for HIs. For only $1.95 per minute you can learn to spell like the best of them. Or, for the low price of $29.95 per month, you can have total access to the spelling site AND the worn-out ball player's site, XXX-Ball's Been Berry Berry Good to Me. OR for a discounted annual fee of a mere $295, you get all of the above PLUS your very own ASHI/NAHI dartboard complete with six Chinese darts that are not CPSC approved.

Originally Posted by Bill Thacker

Thanks for the info. I looked at my website and it shows Reach, Traffic Rank and Page Views. It will be nice comparing my info with others in this area to see what the difference is.

Originally Posted by Stephen DeCosta

Hi Scott,
Also The Internachi, free courses are requirements for membership, thus paying to tag along

Really? I had no idea that education courses were a required part of the membership. Who keeps track of this? The INACHI HQ say and Nick had even stated that they don't keep this type of information. He says it is an honor system!

,for a fee,with an established inspector on a number of actual home inspections,is a
benefit one does not have to pay for to get into the business.
The "exclusionary"
wedge of those who want to increase profits by limiting competition is wiped out."in my opinion"

Kind of hard to follow your logic on this but I think you are saying that INACHI does not permit their members to charge wannabee inspectors for riding along? Sorry to break the news but is is being done all the time by INACHI members as well as members from ASHI, NAHI, CREIA, TAREI, FABI, etc. ASHI does have a published program for their new members called the "Parallel Inspection" program that allows for members to shadow and write a sample report while working with experianced inspectors. That experianced inspector then reviews that report and approves it. This also goes toward that individuals 250 inspections that is required before the can use the ASHI Certified Inspector logo and advertise that they are a member if ASHI. Less than 25% of those who participate in this mentoring program charge for it.

Still don't understand why so many folks think that everything needs to be free. Why, as an independent business man/woman should you be forced to train your compatition for free and then berated if you don't? I have been trying to understand this concept for many years.

Those educational requirements also fine tune the incoming inspector with the
skills one might need to succeed.
Is not that what the free market is all about ? Is not that "one" important thing that made this country so great in years past?

Hopefully the new inspector has attended a school for home inspections and has received their formal education this way. Depending on a professional association to train you in what you should already know before you joined is like a train wreck down the tracks that you are speeding down.


It is kind of difficult to read your post. Please try to use a "period" and paragraphs from time to time.

Nick had even stated that they don't keep this type of information. He says it is an honor system!

Scott: From the horse's mouth.

Still don't understand why so many folks think that everything needs to be free. Why, as an independent business man/woman should you be forced to train your compatition for free and then berated if you don't? I have been trying to understand this concept for many years.

Scott: Agreed.

Originally Posted by Bill Thacker

Interesting website. I tried comparing my website with other HI's in this area. This site shows no # or % for the other HI's websites (the websites I know of) in this area. Are there any other sites that does the same thing as the one you posted?

Originally Posted by Bill Thacker

why would two ostensibly "successful" organizations merge? if they were both doing well, there would not be any merger.

Scott P., where is your list of 5 superlatives of associating with NAHI or ASHI? Why try to put Stephen on the spot? Why the peeing contest? Why do so many care about with whom they associate with?

Why can't we all just get along? Like Kevin's local group.

All of the NAHI and ASHI folks that bash NACHI come off as a bit elitist. As if NO ASHI or NAHI inspector is a rube.

Wasn't NAHI founded by disgruntled ASHI inspectors?

A merger of these two orgs. is not a position of strength....rather it exposes the weaknesses of both groups. If they can't survive alone, a merger doesn't make them any better. Less choice does not make a better option.

I think Kevin is spot on.

my two pence worth.

Hi Bill,

As I said I was not trying to bash or berate anyone. Just asked a simple question. And we got the answer. Stephen does not belong to any home inspector association, yet he states that one is better than the other. Truth be known, they are all very similar but how would he know if he does not belong to any? One would need to join them all before they backup such a statement.

Nobody is bashing anyone. What we have is an honest discussion of the facts and dispelling of the falsehoods. I could care less of who belongs to what. It makes no difference to my well being as an inspector. But, as a person who is active in the profession on a national basis I become a little passionate about the subject. For this I will not apologize.


NAHI was founded by five home inspectors who left ASHI because of some hurt feelings involving elections, board and officer seats. I belive that only two of those men are still in the profession and they also have an ASHI membership.

Bill, how does a merger make them weak? ASHI has over 6,000 members. NAHI has around 2,000 members. ASHI owns their building and has a paid staff. NAHI uses a management company (nothing wrong with that) and does not own any property. It would simply be a matter of letting the management company go and moving the files to ASHI. ( A little more involved than that, but this gets the point across). I would bet that the Harrison Group (NAHI management company) is charging NAHI around $150,000 a year to run their organization. The strength of the combined orgs would be a win win for their members and he profession. Both have a great deal of talent and internal programs that would benefit the profession when combined.

Who knows, it might not happen. The members of each organization must vote for it and this is a year or longer away. Already the chapters of both orgs are working together in the majority of states with joint programs.

how does a merger make them weak?

Scott: It does not.

The strength of the combined orgs would be a win win for their members and he profession. Both have a great deal of talent and internal programs that would benefit the profession when combined.

Scott: Agreed.

Who knows, it might not happen. The members of each organization must vote for it and this is a year or longer away.

Scott: As a member of both, should it come to a vote, I will vote for it.

I tried to come up with an amusing anagram using ASHI and NAHI, but failed utterly.

If they do merge (not a given, I know), what should the resulting organization be called?

What good is an association if there are no rules to follow, let alone if the organization doesn't have any or follow any?

This is what seperates ASHI from NACHI. Lets also not forget that contrary to the Guru's oft repeated mantra it takes longer than 35 seconds to get into ASHI, and a dog, cat, skunk, reporter, child cannot enter into the profession unlike NACHI.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I tried to come up with an amusing anagram using ASHI and NAHI, but failed utterly.

If they do merge (not a given, I know), what should the resulting organization be called?

John: SHNASHI. Society of the Heralded and Nortious Acting as Superior Home Inspectors.

This is what seperates ASHI from NACHI. Lets also not forget that contrary to the Guru's oft repeated mantra it takes longer than 35 seconds to get into ASHI, and a dog, cat, skunk, reporter, child cannot enter into the profession unlike NACHI.

Raymond: Agreed.

Hi Scott,

I was not trying to put you down or on the spot. I see alot of threads that implore folks to justify their NACHI affiliation whilst maintaining an air of superiority because they prefer their org. And this not apply to your response to Stephen. You were quite respectful and I hope you did not take my post personally.

I did not say the combined org. would be weak, nor did I mean to imply it. I am referring to present day conditions. I said it shows a state of current weakness.

If things were going so swimmingly for these two associations, why would there be any talk of merger. It's only win-win because apparently the weakest of the two must be in need of funding. The prospective merger is not because they want to do the industry a favor. It is a matter of survival, as all mergers are.

What I did say is that less choice does not make for a better industry.

I do agree with you that it does not matter whom one chooses to associate with.

Anyone's affiliation with any association does not automatically imply someone is a good inspector or not. There are rubes evenly distributed across the planet? They all certainly do not migrate to one arena.

If somebody thinks that their association with one org or another makes them superior is flat out baloney. It is up to the individual to display they are exemplary. And to do that, first you have to believe you are the best, because you strive to be the best. Be an elitist but maintain some individuality. One's success does not hinge on ASHI/NAHI/NACHI or any other org.

And in conclusion, it would seem the separatists from NAHI want to come back home because it is a competitive world out there and in order not to dissolve NAHI, they are exploring repatriation.

As more states require licensing, the relevancy of ones affiliations becomes less important, except to each individual.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

What good is an association if there are no rules to follow, let alone if the organization doesn't have any or follow any?

This is what seperates ASHI from NACHI. Lets also not forget that contrary to the Guru's oft repeated mantra it takes longer than 35 seconds to get into ASHI, and a dog, cat, skunk, reporter, child cannot enter into the profession unlike NACHI.

That's absurd. Even if your animal or child or reporter got into NACHI, how does that equal entering the profession?

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

Interesting website. I tried comparing my website with other HI's in this area. This site shows no # or % for the other HI's websites (the websites I know of) in this area. Are there any other sites that does the same thing as the one you posted?

Hi Kevin,

I don't know of sites that will allow multiple comparisons of sites on the same graph like alexa. As for finding out where your fine competitor's websites are is up to you.

Here are some links to do some SEO type research with respect to your website.

Website Webmaster Search Engine Tools

BruceClay - Search Engine Optimization SEO Training, SEO Services, Search Engine Ranking, and Placement Tools

There is also a program called "good keywords". I am using version 2.01 but I understand there is a version 3. It has a Site and Link popularity tool.

Good Keywords: Product Versions

Sign your site up with google's webmaster tools. You'll need a google/gmail account, but that is the easy part.

After you do that, sign in and select "My Account" and you should see webmaster tools as an option. Once your site is verified by google, you can find out much about your site.

Bill

I . . . implore folks to justify their NACHI affiliation whilst maintaining an air of superiority because they prefer their org.

Bill: Yes, I do.

I did not say the combined org. would be weak, nor did I mean to imply it. I am referring to present day conditions. I said it shows a state of current weakness.

Bill: Same thing.

If things were going so swimmingly for these two associations, why would there be any talk of merger. It's only win-win because apparently the weakest of the two must be in need of funding. The prospective merger is not because they want to do the industry a favor. It is a matter of survival, as all mergers are.

Bill: BS. The topic of mergers and acquisitions is one you should research before making such broad sweeping untrue statements.

What I did say is that less choice does not make for a better industry.

Bill: Maybe. Would you rather have a choice between 4 or 5 lame ass organizations or 2 decent ones?

I do agree with you that it does not matter whom one chooses to associate with.

Bill: Yes, it does. What matters even more is possessing the perspicacity to understand the nature of whom you are considering aligning yourself with, before you do so. And, it is further important that you continually monitor the situation. If you see that your original assessment of the other person (organization, et al.) was wrong, you act to disassociate yourself.

Anyone's affiliation with any association does not automatically imply someone is a good inspector or not. There are rubes evenly distributed across the planet? They all certainly do not migrate to one arena.

Bill: They seem to be disproportionately represented by INACHI.

If somebody thinks that their association with one org or another makes them superior is flat out baloney. It is up to the individual to display they are exemplary. And to do that, first you have to believe you are the best, because you strive to be the best. Be an elitist but maintain some individuality. One's success does not hinge on ASHI/NAHI/NACHI or any other org.

Bill: Agreed.

And in conclusion, it would seem the separatists from NAHI want to come back home because it is a competitive world out there and in order not to dissolve NAHI, they are exploring repatriation.

Bill: Probably close to the truth.

As more states require licensing, the relevancy of ones affiliations becomes less important, except to each individual.

Bill: I disagree here. State licensing does not provide you with legitimacy in the eyes of the savvy consumer. It only provides evidence that you carry a business license in your State and won't be going to jail soon for operating without one. Professional associations engender the spirit of competitors working together to improve and advance their profession.

Anyone of importance has already left NACHI.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Anyone of importance has already left NACHI.

Raymond: Priceless.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Anyone of importance has already left NACHI.

Same could be said of canada.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

blah blah blah

This is what I mean.....a line by line dissection by someone feeling they are superior by association not deeds. Grammatically speaking, I'll concede this point.....

Make that many...not all mergers.

Otherwise, I stand by my post.

A.D. Miller wrote:

Bill: I disagree here. State licensing does not provide you with legitimacy in the eyes of the savvy consumer. It only provides evidence that you carry a business license in your State and won't be going to jail soon for operating without one. Professional associations engender the spirit of competitors working together to improve and advance their profession.

I love your last sentence and agree with that completely. But whose definition of "improve" would be used?

Republicans and Democrats talk about improvements all the time....never thought of it this way. ASHI being the Republicans and InterNACHI being the Democrats = two parties that cannot agree with each other on many subjects but both needed to help improve and advance our profession by presenting their different views.

Originally Posted by Bill Thacker

This is what I mean.....a line by line dissection by someone feeling they are superior by association not deeds. Grammatically speaking, I'll concede this point.....

Make that many...not all mergers.

Otherwise, I stand by my post.

Bill: Actually, if I feel somehow superior, and I honestly don't (OK, maybe), but if I were to feel that way, it would be for the reason of accomplishments and not by membership in associations. Show me yours and I'll show you mine . . .

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

A.D. Miller wrote:

I love your last sentence and agree with that completely. But whose definition of "improve" would be used?

Republicans and Democrats talk about improvements all the time....never thought of it this way. ASHI being the Republicans and InterNACHI being the Democrats = two parties that cannot agree with each other on many subjects but both needed to help improve and advance our profession by presenting their different views.

Kevin: Improve - make better.

Hi all ;
Just a little clarification to clear any misconceptions I may have created .I am a member of Internachi ,since last July, and I have completed all of the requirements for my first year. Whether it is monitored or not I do not know. But I do know that there is an "member educationaI log" that I can go to , and all the courses I have completed ,with credit hours is listed . I have also taken and completed, most of the courses offered through ITA, which I believe is a very good school. I have found ITA to be a supporter of ASHI, and that is fine.The mentor program through ITA ,is a student paid program ,which I have been involved with over the last year and a half. I have been studying for over three and a half years along with a prior history of work in the construction industry . I don't intend to fill the page with qualifications of a resume type, but I do agree with Scott that these trainings should not be free , nor should untrained inspectors be let loose on the general public. If a paid organizational fee also offers free bennies with their member ship , I will spend my money where I get the most "bang for the buck".I also agree that an unqualified home inspector is a blight on the whole industry. That is why I take training so seriously. The home inspection industry is one that should share with each and every person ideas and concepts to help one another to become a better inspector. That will benefit all of us , and hopefully will not require government to intervene with fees and fines to set up their standards which are general to all and not specifc to any one geographical area.Which will take the enjoyment out of home inspections.
It is good to have dialog with many different opinions. That is how one can learn. As to having just one big organization , I would rather have several to chose from , the ones that do not measure up will fail, That is the American free market ecconomy , unless one can get a government bailout.
A simple Question--- What dictatorship type government ever survived over any long
period of time ? -- Maybe one might consider that when asking for "One Big Central
Organization".

Comparing an ASHI/NAHI merge to a dictatorship is a bit of a stretch. They're just associations. Nobody is forced to join anything or abide by any rules. This is all voluntary stuff unless you're in a state that requires licensure, in which case those rules are first and foremost.

These associations are there to help you. I focus much less on the letters in the title and more on the people I meet locally. It's good to keep an eye on the profession on a national level but what's going on around you is much more important.

Hi Matt;
I did not "say" that the merge was a dictatorship, possibly it must be on your mind to say it yourself. I do not know.
If the consensus of those reading here is to have only one big organization, get rid of the competition , like Internachi; then put in legislation nationwide that all home inspectors have to be licensed,and are mandated to belong to the "only" one large organization that is left. So that if one wanted to work in the home inspection business, he could be controlled by those who had the power to make the rules[law]. Having power over others , whether good or bad, is what a dictator does. Is that a stretch? That depends on the mindset of the person and his or her motives. Sometimes in this country , the few make the law/rules for the many.It is not always good.
As an example , look at the NEA, you wonder why our country's education is in a downward spiral , that your school portion of your taxes is totally out of control,and many of the better teachers are totally frustrated or left the profession.?
I personally am not willing to trade in my birthright for a bowl of porridge .If others want
to --good luck.

Originally Posted by Stephen DeCosta

As an example , look at the NEA, you wonder why our country's education is in a downward spiral , that your school portion of your taxes is totally out of control,and many of the better teachers are totally frustrated or left the profession.?

Good example to pick to show how off base you are.

The NEA does not control things. Your state governments and the federal government does.

Then, being as you brought education up, there is the difference in what W (and here in Florida, Jeb) did ... if the schools cannot educate children to standards the states and federal government mandated, while teaching courses mandated by those states and the federal government, students will have the choice to go elsewhere outside public education ... to schools which do not have to teach those mandated courses.

Then there are the school buildings themselves, and their employment practices: the schools are constructed to specified standards, and the employment practices are regulated, versus the non-public school buildings which are not required to be constructed to the same higher cost standard and the employment practices are looser.

Now, is it any wonder that non-public education costs less? And it has nothing to do with the NEA.

Want to really compare teachers to teachers? Mandate the non-public school teachers be required to teach the same courses that public school teachers are mandated to teach.

Want to compare costs: Mandate the same construction practices and employment practices for non-public schools as are mandated for public schools.

Until that is done, you are comparing apples to oranges and wondering why oranges are not red and shiny like apples are.

Are there problems in the education system today? You betcha. If you think the non-mandated construction practices, employment practices, and teaching practices are better in non-public schools, then instead of trying to move kids from public education to non-public education, get rid of those mandated practices which control public education.

Make the playing field level. Only then can comparisons be made.

But we have now successfully drifted way off topic.

Geeeeeees

After saying all that in my last post above.

The problems with the schools in the good Ole US is they are not strict enough. In all sense of the word.

Strict in actions, non actions, DRESS codes, structured classrooms. What is up in the US abnout these things. I do not believe any nation on earth would allow there school kids to have the type of control or non control that they have.

Freedom of speech bull crap in schools has gotten way out of control. Freedom of this. Freedom of that.

The kids are in school to learn. Not screw around, talk and text on the phones. Speeking of such. A CELL PHONE IN SCHOOL. If they need to makle a call at the end of the day they go down to the office and ask permission to call their MOMMY. If their parents need to get ahold of them, they call the office and leave a message. This whole cell phone thing for kids in school is absolute crap. Almost every 8th grader and up has one. The school is absolutely no place for them. For their good and for our good. When they step into the job place the controls on them are going to be ten fold of what their high school was.

Oh yeah. While I am at it. I think there should be a law about the as**ss of the kids showing with their pants down and their underware hanging out. The ten times to big T shirts hanging over their butts hangin\g out should not be allowed either.

Someone mentioned the old days. The old days with what, bell bottoms, a little longer hair. Does not compare with metal hanging out of the high school age kids heads and their total lack of respect they have for presenting themselves in public.

Yes. Respect has to be earned not demanded. There is such a thing as common respect for elders and teachers and such.

Gees. There I go again.

Another day off.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

The problems with the schools in the good Ole US is they are not strict enough. In all sense of the word.

It's the parents.

Which, of course, means "us".

So many parents today do not accept that Little Billy or Little Susie can do anything wrong.

Just because their kids do not show up for school all the time ...

Just because their kids never do any work in school or homework ...

Just because they themselves never respond to requests from the teachers about their kids behaviors or failing ways ...

Just because they get a note saying that Little Billy or Little Susie is going to fail and be held back ... they come in screaming that *the teacher* should not have let that happen, that *the teacher* should make sure their kids learn, that *the teacher* should be fired, that *the teacher* should make sure their kids get to school every day, that *the teacher* should make sure their kids get to school on time, that *the teacher* ... everything ... and when it is not *the teacher* who is at fault, it is then *the school* which is at fault.

So the parents finally do something ... ... they call the superintendent, who calls the principal, who calls *the teacher* ... to explain why THEY got a phone call from the parents.

My wife retires this June from being a counselor in the schools, she, and all of the other counselors and all of the teachers are fed up with the treatment they get from the parents, and their principals who do not back the counselor or teachers up, because the parents will call the superintendent ... who will call the principal, who will call ...

My wife could work another 2 years, but she is not. The other counselors and teachers WISH THEY COULD RETIRE, but most are younger and have not been in the system as long, with retirement out, many are simply leaving to do other things because they cannot take it anymore.

Does not matter, with the reduction in money the schools are having to deal with, most school districts are cutting back (no more substitutes) and laying teachers off, which will, of course, mean more students in a class, and which will, of course, mean more parents to have to deal with for those remaining teachers, which will, of course, mean more phone calls ...

For my wife, June will not get here soon enough!

Back when we were in school, and when our kids were in school, we had to suffer the consequences of our actions. Today's parent have brought their kids up to think they do not have to suffer the consequences of their action, and the parent think that way too!

My take on the public school system in the USA is that the students are not required to spend:

(1) Enough days of the year in class.

(2) Enough hours per day in class.

(3) Enough of the time they do spend in class studying subjects that are pertinent to achieving success in this society.

(4) Enough hours after class doing homework.

(5) Enough of their time when out of school devoted to study.

All of the other industrialized countries in the world require more of the items above from their students. (If you need statistics, I'm happy to point you in the right direction.) This is but one of the reasons that the USA has become a 2nd rate nation.

We are the only civilized country that actually has to have the inane argument as to whether religion, in the form of "intelligent design" should be taught in our schools. And this despite the obvious attempt of the founding fathers to separate church and state.

Add to these the fact that we (not I), as a nation, spend more money for tickets to performances of grown men in baggy shorts or overly-tight costumes playing with their balls than we do on educating the future of our country. What kind of morons do this?

That's what mirrors are for . . .

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Bill: Actually, if I feel somehow superior, and I honestly don't (OK, maybe), but if I were to feel that way, it would be for the reason of accomplishments and not by membership in associations.

That is all I asked......if you feel superior it is because you believe it based on your own actions, not what one org. provides over another.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Show me yours and I'll show you mine . . .

I'll just keep mine tucked in for now, I hardly know you.

Bill

Well, I have to admit I didnt think that this thread was going to create so much buzz...was just curious if anyone else had heard the possibility of merging, and it appears others have.

Since this rumor of a merge was floted, John e-mailed a member of our chapter who is on the NAHI board of directors. The board member stated in his e-mail that there are no merger talks being conducted. Instead, what is going on is NAHI and ASHI have established a Task Force to explore the possibility of collaborative efforts.

This is the info I received.

Originally Posted by Randy King

Well, I have to admit I didnt think that this thread was going to create so much buzz...was just curious if anyone else had heard the possibility of merging, and it appears others have.

See what you started . . . . . . . .

Strange that a NAHI inspector that I have talked to thinks there are talks going on about a merge. Scott thinks there are talks about a merge and the one NAHI guy that responded here (maybe more NAHI members responded) didn't say any different.

If true, I wonder how much money and resources it will take to get rid of InterNACHI?

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

Since this rumor of a merge was floted, John e-mailed a member of our chapter who is on the NAHI board of directors. The board member stated in his e-mail that there are no merger talks being conducted. Instead, what is going on is NAHI and ASHI have established a Task Force to explore the possibility of collaborative efforts.

This is the info I received.

Nick: But of course. No top heavy organization can do anything (like tie its shoes or scratch its ass) without first resorting to a TASK FORCE. It sound so important when you say it that way. Members in the nose bleed section of the organization can then breathe freely having relinquished the responsibility to actually do anything at all other that "look into the possibilities".

To put this into perspective let's take this view. Your wife tells you that you need to take out the trash. That's pretty straight forward, right? And a reasonable man will do one of the following:

(1) Take out the trash - if he's smart.
(2) Procrastinate.
(3) Refuse to take out the trash - bad move.

Now if that same man acts like he is an organization such as ASHI, the US government, et al., he will take this approach instead:

(1) Call for a meeting of the board.
(2) Discuss the relative merits of taking out the trash.
(3) Take a vote on what to do about taking out the trash, during which it is decided not to decide but to delegate the decision to a TASK FORCE.
(4) The members of the TASK FORCE then have to be officially appointed, anointed and pointed in the general direction of actually doing something.
(5) The TASK FORCE then must make up a set of rules by which to decide if and when the trash should be taken out.
(6) The TASK FORCE may or may not employ others such as researchers and investigators to find out if trash really needs to be taken out and, if it does, what the appropriate vessel may be and how best to carry it out within the bounds of trash-carrying etiquette. And, let's not forget that a decision must be made as to where to carry the trash to.
(7) After weeks, months or years of deliberation, fidgeting and just plain malingering, the TASK FORCE makes its decisions and send the information to the TASK FORCE review board for approval. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Just relaying the info/verbiage I received on the topic which came directly from a member of the NAHI board of directors. We're supposed to receive something from the president of NAHI on the topic. Hopefully I'll have something to pass along.