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Thread: Supra Keys

  1. #1
    K Robertson's Avatar
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    Question Supra Keys

    How often do you use your Supra Key (for those of you who have it). I've been considering returning mine and am on the fence as to if that is a good idea or not. More and more jobs are going back to combos and I find myself using my Supra only once or twice a month if that. I just went April and May and never took the key off the cradle. So I have to ask, why am I paying the fee for it if it's not being used. And better question, why do I have to be a member of a local REALTOR association, state REALTOR association, and National REALTOR association just to have the stupid thing?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by K Robertson View Post
    How often do you use your Supra Key (for those of you who have it). I've been considering returning mine and am on the fence as to if that is a good idea or not. More and more jobs are going back to combos and I find myself using my Supra only once or twice a month if that. I just went April and May and never took the key off the cradle. So I have to ask, why am I paying the fee for it if it's not being used. And better question, why do I have to be a member of a local REALTOR association, state REALTOR association, and National REALTOR association just to have the stupid thing?
    I have never had a key for the reasons you listed. In the 14 years I have been doing this, I have never really had much of an argument from any agent for not having one either.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Around here it's used almost all the time. In the past, it was no big deal not having it since the Realtor was likely going to be at the inspection. Now, all the Realtors are being told not to be at the home inspection. For $250 a year and not having to belong to their organization, it's nice to have. Just which we didn't have to call up for the CBS code.

    From what you wrote, it sounds like you can get by without it. Why pay for something if you don't need it.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    KR: I have had one for 13 years, and could not get by without it. It is worth the additional cost to me not to be inconvenienced by late or no-show agents. In town listings are 90% with Supra key boxes.

    That said, Collin County Association of Realtors just polled its membership a month or so ago regarding allowing inspectors to use agent Supra Keys that do not require CBS codes.

    I have not heard the outcome, but the likelihood is that it is moving in that direction.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I have never had a key for the reasons you listed. In the 14 years I have been doing this, I have never really had much of an argument from any agent for not having one either.
    My experience was like Scott's.

    No Lock Box combo, no Supra Key, the seller, their agent, my client's agent, or the client let me in.

    If an agent wants to sell a property and their client calls and says my inspector WILL BE THERE at such and such time on such and such day, and to MAKE SURE my inspector is able to gain entry, THEIR AGENT will do so.

    If you experience a late arriving agent, REAL LATE arriving, the next time you tell your client up front that you will wait no more than 30 minutes and then leave, and they will need to let the agent know that the agent will need to pay for that missed inspection and you will reschedule.

    Be realistic but firm, your clients will respect you for your value and understand that time as value, and the agents can write a check if they think their time is more valuable.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 06-04-2009 at 04:04 PM. Reason: speelin' 'they' is now 'their'
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    I agree with Aaron. NO way could I do without my Supre keypad. I use it everyday and sometimes twice a day.

    As far as keyboxes. I think agents can only use those on vacant homes. Occupied homes have to have a Supre box I believe.

    I don't have time to wait around for people to come and open the place up for me. I've done it this way for a number of years and not once has it ever been an issue to a Homeowner, a buyer or the Realtors involved.

    rick


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    I don't have time to wait around for people to come and open the place up for me.

    Waiting for someone to take that bait ...

    Then you are not working and charging right, otherwise you *would* have time.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Jerry,

    Charging right is not the issue here.

    I've been involved with the real estate people here in the Dallas area for 22+ years. I can't tell you the amount of time I have set out front of a home waiting for one of these Realtors to show up and let me in.

    None of them must own a watch. It is like Vegas here I believe. Not a clock in sight.

    Try and bill one of them for your time lost or send them an invoice for payment and you've just wasted more of your time.

    In the Dallas area with the traffic we have one cannot always be exactly on time I can understand at times. That is why I tell my afternoon appt. I cannot guarantee a exact arrival time not knowing how long my morning appt. may take. Having that Supre key allows me to arrive and let myself in and the client usually shows up latter during the inspection.

    Supre keys are not a necessity for some I guess, but I truly enjoy the benefit of having mine.

    rick


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    KR: I have had one for 13 years, and could not get by without it. It is worth the additional cost to me not to be inconvenienced by late or no-show agents. In town listings are 90% with Supra key boxes.

    That said, Collin County Association of Realtors just polled its membership a month or so ago regarding allowing inspectors to use agent Supra Keys that do not require CBS codes.

    I have not heard the outcome, but the likelihood is that it is moving in that direction.
    I have heard that the outcome of the Realtor poll was about 2/3 in favor of changing the rule about having to have the CBS code but that the board over ruled the poll results out of "liability" concerns raised by lawyers.
    I think it is still a possibility, but it may have to be brought up a few more times to make it through. Somebody has to set the precedent to calm the fears of the overly cautions.

    I have the key and use it as a convenience to ME. It is worth it to ME not to have to wait on an agent.

    Vacant properties are typically on combo and occupied on Supra box more out of an economic choice. The boxes cost the agents money and most agents only have a limited number. The combo boxes are cheaper to purchase.
    That may be where you are running into the lack of need for the key, K, if you are doing lots of vacant properties.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    That is freaking rediculous about liability. We have E&O, General Liability, Honesty bond. We have more insurance than Reraltors. We are also members of the Realtor Association to get the key. Why shoiuld we be looked at as liability. Everyone that gets into a home with there key is logged on the box and they just have to call it up anytime they want.

    What was that movie or show on Television. I AM REALLY ANGRY AND AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE

    I might go a couple weeks with out using my key and then go three months where every inspection needs a key.

    As far as having to belong to any of the other Real Estate Associations, you don't have to. All that is extra if you look at your bill. The supra fee, insurance for the key and the local association is all that is required.

    I for one would never go with out one. I always show up early unless the home is inhabited. I refuse to be at anyones becon call to get into an inspection. I am at most inspections at 8 or just after. Most realtors are just putting on their underwear at that time. If the home is vacant I am usually there earlier. For those realtors that feel some strange stirring in their loins to have control on what time you are there because they and the client want to be there the entire time and tell me 10:00 am I still call CSS and set it up for 8 till noon and am happily well on may way with the day.

    Nope. Would not be with out one.

    A p;umber, electrician, Home Depot delivery.....Try to tell them 10 and that's it....Yeah...Right


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My experience was like Scott's.

    No Lock Box combo, no Supra Key, the seller, their agent, my client's agent, or the client let me in.

    If an agent wants to sell a property and their client calls and says my inspector WILL BE THERE at such and such time on such and such day, and to MAKE SURE my inspector is able to gain entry, THEY AGENT will do so.
    That is exactly what I do and have done for years. I always tell the buyer that they need to contact their agent and tell them that the inspection in on X day and at X time. I never have a problem when I handle it this way.

    On the few times that I have had a problem it has been when I had to tell the agent the time and day. They always seem to have a meeting, a showing or a closing at that specific time!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    That is exactly what I do and have done for years. I always tell the buyer that they need to contact their agent and tell them that the inspection in on X day and at X time. I never have a problem when I handle it this way.

    On the few times that I have had a problem it has been when I had to tell the agent the time and day. They always seem to have a meeting, a showing or a closing at that specific time!
    I see the problem.

    We are working for and with our client for the client's inspection AND we expect our client to use their pull on their agent so their agent will to do as their agent should do.

    Because we expect that, and our clients expect that, it works.

    The others are scheduling through the agent instead of the client and expect it not to work, so it does not.

    Get the client involved and if the agent wants to make a sale (that *is* how the agents make a living), *the agent will do* what the client needs and requests, and the clients needs and requests that the agent (or someone for them) opens the house for the client's inspector - because the client requests it, and the client knows there will be a charge if not open, and the agent believes the client when the client says 'If the house is not open for my inspector YOU WILL be paying that charge if you want to sell me a house.' I have heard those words come out of client's mouths talking to their agent.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    I dont own one, dont want one. We have a little traffic problem here in Houston too, but I dont let it be an issue. I arrive at my scheduled time and if its an occupied house, begin the inspection. If the house is unoccupied, I call my client (assuming they arent already there) and explain that I cant get into the property. Im pretty accomodating and will begin my inspection around the outside of the house, somewhat waiting for their agent to get their butt over and open the door. Statistically, about 90% of my inspections the clients are there when I start.

    To date, I havent had any problems at all. I have had some agents whine, but I dont care, I dont work for them. Its part of collecting their commissions.

    Im not going to pay HAR for a Supra Key.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Actuall you are not correct in your assumtion. We do not schedule thru the agent. We schedule most of the time thru a scheduleing agency CSS. The only time we schedule thru an agent is if there is no scheduling service invilved. Not often. We are talking about a simple schedule here not making our client call back their realtor to tell them what the schedule is.

    In some cases (rare) the agent wants to be there with the client and they try to set a schedule based on their needs. I for one get the clients name, present address, inspection address, their agent name and number and then I set the schedule, not the agent, not the client, not the listing agent. I am certainly not going to wait for a call back from the client to say that they talked to there agent and it would be better for them at 10:00 and then have to do a song and dance with the client that is paying me for my inspection report.

    It is simple as can be. The only thing I am getting from the clients agent is the listing agents name and number becase they are the ones with the CBS. The way you folks do is to much calling, calling back, manipulating, giving the agent there chance to chime in etc etc etc.

    Our agents out here almost or should I say practically never come to the inspection till the end of the inspection with the client.

    You folks that insist the client is there the whole time now bring their schedule into play. I don't. I tell them when to be there and they always are.

    The way we do it is to take everyone out of play except you, the inspector. Then all else have to follow suit. Not once, well, maybe once, when I tell the client to be there around 11 or 11:30 or 12 depending on the size of the home, has anyone said except that one, "I cannot make it". If they cannot make it I have them have a relative or friend or agent bring some money and get a copy of the report or I will email them.

    I just don't get the idea why so many think they work for someone else. I do not. I work for me and my well being. They are the ones buying the home and they have to be the ones making concenssions, not you.

    Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepers. Creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepers

    I have a key because it takes everyone out of play but me. I LIKE IT THAT WAY


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Actuall you are not correct in your assumtion. We do not schedule thru the agent. We schedule most of the time thru a scheduleing agency CSS. The only time we schedule thru an agent is if there is no scheduling service invilved. Not often. We are talking about a simple schedule here not making our client call back their realtor to tell them what the schedule is.
    There sure are a whole lot of "we" words in there.

    The way Scott does it, and I did it, was to replace "we" with "client" for all except the first "we" - "we" (the HI) works out with the client when "we" (the HI and the client) can do the inspection, which is typically based on when the HI can do the inspection).

    From then on, scheduling service or no scheduling service, "the client" TELLS (not asks) ... tells the agent when the inspection will be.

    Worked for me, works for Scott, and works for Captain John Smith - and he is in Texas.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    As the ole saying goes, "To each his own."

    I consider the supre a convience that I'm willing to pay for but thats just me. A few hundred a year for the use I'm not going to complain about.

    Its not taking food off the table here and its makes life easier for me.

    So to use or not to use, its all personal preference.

    rick


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    I like the supra key because it eliminates the Realtor. I call the office to get the CBS code and I meet the buyer at the house. Don't have to deal with the Realtor at all.


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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    I like the supra key because it eliminates the Realtor. I call the office to get the CBS code and I meet the buyer at the house. Don't have to deal with the Realtor at all.
    We have a winner!


  19. #19
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    There sure are a whole lot of "we" words in there.

    The way Scott does it, and I did it, was to replace "we" with "client" for all except the first "we" - "we" (the HI) works out with the client when "we" (the HI and the client) can do the inspection, which is typically based on when the HI can do the inspection).

    From then on, scheduling service or no scheduling service, "the client" TELLS (not asks) ... tells the agent when the inspection will be.

    Worked for me, works for Scott, and works for Captain John Smith - and he is in Texas.
    Sorry Jerry.

    The we was me, myself and I and I guess you can throw in all the other inspectors that do it that way as well so I guess there is alot of we words in there.

    Me, myself and I give the clients a couple of options, well maybe three.

    1. 8 am, they come around 11:30.

    2. 12:30 or 1:00 depending on my first appointment they come at anywhere from 3:30 TO 5 depending on the size of the home.

    3. Any day start from X day, depending on what I already have lined up.

    Cannot get much simpler than that. Nothing else comes into play.

    Never had a problem or a client complain.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    I like the supra key because it eliminates the Realtor. I call the office to get the CBS code
    Huh? You just said it eliminates the real estate agent, yet you had to call their office???

    Make up your mind.

    Don't have to deal with the Realtor at all.
    Yes you did, you had to call their office.

    Scott and I talk to OUR CLIENTS.

    OUR CLIENTS tell the agent what is what.

    No real estate agent in that description, there is in yours.

    As Rick said, "to each their own". Just understand, though, that YOU are "dealing with the agent and the agents office" while our CLIENTS are "dealing with the agent and the agents office".

    May be a subtle difference to some, but one has the word YOU in it and the other has the word CLIENTS in it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    There are at least 2 small association of realtors in the outlying DFW area, where if you join and get a Supra key, you do not need the CBS code.

    Ted, there is one very close to you.

    Call and schedule with CSS and when they say, it's on SUPRA do you need the listing agents name? You say, no thanks, I can get it.

    Shhhhhhhhhhhhh.....keep it Q-U-I-E-T...


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post

    Yes you did, you had to call their office.
    Actually I don't. I inform my clients to inform their Realtor on the time and date and I call the receptionist for the CBS code. Of course nothing is absolute, but it reduces dealing with them I would guess 95% of the time.

    Besides, this is one of those silly threads that overall doesn't add up to a hill of beans.


  23. #23
    K Robertson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Wow, didn't expect that controversy, but I'm still on the ledge with this. Rick, it's not just a few hundred, it's a few hundred for the key, but also a few more hundred for the Realtor Associations, of which I care nothing and gain nothing as no business or opportunity for business has ever come my way for being a member. Since I became an HI I've spent almost $2K on supra.

    Regarding the waiting issues... I've shown up at houses only to find out I've been given the wrong CBS Code and had to wait for the Realtor to call me back with the correct one or come out because they couldn't figure it out. And I can't tell the number of hours I've spent on the phone trying to explain to Realtors what a CBS code is in the first place and they still call me an idiot for suggesting that I need it.

    Does it save time and frustration? Yes and No. I saves but also creates new ones. The real frustration is having to pay hundreds of dollars to be a member of the local, state, and national associations that uses that money to lobby for things of which I have strong disagreements. On many issues we are supporting crap that hurts OUR business! Why can't TAREI members get it instead of having to be Realtor association? I would actually become a member of TAREI if they did and give them my money instead of LAR, TAR, and NAR.

    Still riding the fence and only have 25 days to get off it!


  24. #24
    K Robertson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    Actually I don't. I inform my clients to inform their Realtor on the time and date and I call the receptionist for the CBS code. Of course nothing is absolute, but it reduces dealing with them I would guess 95% of the time.

    Besides, this is one of those silly threads that overall doesn't add up to a hill of beans.
    You must have some great receptionists in IN cuz here in Texas they think CBS is where they get their news.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    Besides, this is one of those silly threads that overall doesn't add up to a hill of beans.
    Does make a small pile of beans, though.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  26. #26
    K Robertson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Does make a small pile of beans, though.
    Actually if you add up all the "couple hundred"'s that we as HI's are giving needlessly to Realtor Associations, it adds up to quite a large pile of beans, or even mountain of Anasazi.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by K Robertson View Post
    You must have some great receptionists in IN cuz here in Texas they think CBS is where they get their news.
    The receptionists know what I'm asking for. The Realtors, that can be a different story.

    As a general rule, if I don't make more than three time the amount it cost me, I don't deal with it unless I have to.


  28. #28
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Does make a small pile of beans, though.



  29. #29
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    I don't think I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with a scheduling service. I have heard an agent or two talk about having to make an appointment with them to show a house and how much trouble it was. I think Crye-Leike is the one in my area that does it this way.

    For all of you that go through the agent to setup the appointment, you might want to try and getting your client involved in the process. It is amazing how the agent responds to what the client is telling them.

    As for an MLS key, in my area I would need to have 4 keys! What I have seen is that once a home has a contract on it the agents are putting on a simple combination box and removing the MLS lock box. All they do then is give you the combination to the box. We also have a type of MLS box that allows you to punch in a "day" code to get the key out of the box. This works well and is used often by many agents on homes that are vacant.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    It is interesting to read how things are different depending on location.


  31. #31
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Our local board was run by a nazi that hated home inspectors (or at least all but one) and made it impossible for us to get a Supra key. Then he said he would WHEN we got licensed.
    Well, it was almost 5 months after we got licensed that they finally had the process worked out. So I paid my money and got the key. For me it was almost $500/year.
    So I would call for a CBS code. I got many "Whats' that?". I got a lot of wrong numbers. I found 3 or 4 Supra boxes that did not belong to the listing agent.

    IN the 10 months I had the key, I was able to actually get in a house 4 times. I took it back.

    Up until I got the key, I had no trouble at all in 98% of my inspections. Since I took it back, I am about at 99.8% success rate.

    When someone schedules an inspection, I tell them to make sure I can get in the house at the appointed time. Many Realtors have gone from the Supra key back to the old combo boxes. They give me the code, and I get in- no problem.

    It's nice to hear that some of you have no problems with the CBS codes.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    I've had sellers accuse me of busting things up, disturbing possessions and each time there was an agent present to back me up and pull my fat out of the fire. And what about buyers looking through the house w/o the agent present. Kids run rampant, buyers go through owner's possessions and personal/financial papers and play with expensive electronics. Too many people have too little regard for the property of others. For me, no agent, no inspection in an occupied home. Even if the seller is leaving prior to the agent's arrival I tell them to lock the house up.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  33. #33
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Kids run rampant, buyers go through owner's possessions and personal/financial papers and play with expensive electronics. Too many people have too little regard for the property of others.
    I had a problem like that just a couple of weeks ago. The kids climbing on the sellers bed and couch and touching everything. After I was done, I called up the listing agent to inform her of what happened at the house. At least I had a phone record of calling the listing agent.

    Around here, almost all the Realtors don't show up/stay for the home inspection. The organization they belong to (only one in this area) informs them not to be at the home inspection due to liability. In other words, they don't want the Realtor influencing the buyer during the home inspection.

    Personally, I like when the Realtors were at the home inspection. It was nice for the Realtor to remind the seller what I did and what I didn't say (they did a good job overall). I know many of you guys had problems with Realtors but overall, my experience with them was fine.

    Last edited by Kevin Luce; 06-07-2009 at 08:09 PM.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Kevin and others,

    When a seller complains (rightly or wrongly) of damage or whatever, how do you defend yourself with no witness? It would basically be one's word against another's. I realize that conducting inspections w/o an agent is common in some areas of the country but I can't get my mind around it. Do sellers even realize that strangers will be in their homes w/o "supervision?" As a homeowner I wouldn't want or allow an inspection in my home w/o an agent present.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  35. #35

    Default Re: Supra Keys

    When a seller complains (rightly or wrongly) of damage or whatever, how do you defend yourself with no witness? It would basically be one's word against another's. I realize that conducting inspections w/o an agent is common in some areas of the country but I can't get my mind around it. Do sellers even realize that strangers will be in their homes w/o "supervision?" As a homeowner I wouldn't want or allow an inspection in my home w/o an agent present.
    It's the inspector's word against the seller's. It's just an empty accusation unless there is truth to it (haven't had one so far)

    The Realtors on my jobs do have to show up to let me in, and they stick around during the inspection. They do not follow me around, nor do they seem to follow the buyer's, friends, family, kids, etc. around. It's still someone's word against someone else's.

    This is one reason I take my shoes off at every inspection (unless the house is a pig sty). I can most definitely say "I am 100% sure I did not stain your white carpet ma'am, and here's why"


  36. #36
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Kevin and others,

    When a seller complains (rightly or wrongly) of damage or whatever, how do you defend yourself with no witness? It would basically be one's word against another's. I realize that conducting inspections w/o an agent is common in some areas of the country but I can't get my mind around it. Do sellers even realize that strangers will be in their homes w/o "supervision?" As a homeowner I wouldn't want or allow an inspection in my home w/o an agent present.
    Overall I agree with you. The one thing I will put as a condition when we sell our house is "No kids allowed at the house during the home inspection". 3 hours is way too long for some kid to sit or stand around.

    Side Note: The inspection does go faster without the Realtor being there.


  37. #37
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Kevin and others,

    When a seller complains (rightly or wrongly) of damage or whatever, how do you defend yourself with no witness? It would basically be one's word against another's. I realize that conducting inspections w/o an agent is common in some areas of the country but I can't get my mind around it. Do sellers even realize that strangers will be in their homes w/o "supervision?" As a homeowner I wouldn't want or allow an inspection in my home w/o an agent present.
    Do you really get complaints ??????????????????????

    What's a complaint ???????????????????????


    Here, the sellers are asked to leave during the inspection. Maybe one out of 20 to 30 (if that, probably a lot less, a whole lot less) inspections the sellers are there. One out of a hundred the buyers kids are there and they are planted in the back yard or on the couch and don't run around the home. The only thing A kid may look at is their future room, with me and the parents.

    As far as the home having items out of place, well, if we had to move them to get into a crawl and they did not move them yet, oh well.

    I for one do not want the world there or even a small portion of the world there when I am doing an inspection. I also mention liability to my clients when they come and they understand quite well.

    I had an owners cat crap on a comforter when at an inspection because the note said do not let the cats out and the door to the room they were in was shut. The sellers wanted me to have it professionally cleaned because I locked them in the room that he had shut before I got there...... Yeah right.

    Buy the way, I have never paid for anything other than helping a woman out that I was a softy to her crying even though she was wrong about an item at the inspection. That was the buyer not the seller.

    The sellers are selling their home. The buyers are buying the home. They are the ones that have to make concessions, not me.

    I make the schedule, not them. I may work with them slightly but when it comes down to it they are the buyer of the home and they are the ones to make their schedule fit mine, not me to theirs.

    It may all sound kinda mean spirited but it is certainly not. I explain everything quite nicely to them and they always come round and are happy with it all in the end. Some want to be the boss. Some are just control freaks. Once you take that away from them in a nice manner everything works out just fine.

    Someone mentioned the hassle with supra keys. One out of a hundred, if that, has a problem with a bad code. One out of a couple hundred might not know what a CBS code is but always find out what it is before the inspection. As far as Scheduling with CSS I can count maybe a few fingers on one hand since here in Texas (5 years) where I got a call back having to change the inspection to an afternoon or just later in the morning.

    As far as the cost. It equals about one large or at best 2 small inspections a year for happiness in getting into and scheduling an inspection when I want, not the unlock the door realtor. As far as calling the Listing agent to get a code. So what. That is not involving and agent. That is just getting the code. I tell clients that they have to do absolutely nothing at all with the exception of giving me their name, present address, cell number, inspection address and the realtor name and number. After I hang up with them it is just a few more minutes to call and agent and get a code and schedule the appointment thru CSS. When I say a few minute for all that it is exagerated. Maybe a minute to the agent and a minute to CSS.

    Ah yes, it is so grand being in complete control of the situation.

    Isn't that why all of you work for yourselves (well, maybe your wives) and not someone else.

    Key words.

    You work for yourselves and NOT someone else.


  38. #38
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Kevin and others,

    When a seller complains (rightly or wrongly) of damage or whatever, how do you defend yourself with no witness? It would basically be one's word against another's. I realize that conducting inspections w/o an agent is common in some areas of the country but I can't get my mind around it. Do sellers even realize that strangers will be in their homes w/o "supervision?" As a homeowner I wouldn't want or allow an inspection in my home w/o an agent present.
    EB:

    You live in another world than the one I live in. You would want an agent as a witness to something? Who in their right mind would believe a real estate agent? Maybe you have different creatures there, mythological no doubt, that pass for Realtors. But, I think they are the same everywhere.


  39. #39
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    EB:

    You live in another world than the one I live in. You would want an agent as a witness to something? Who in their right mind would believe a real estate agent? Maybe you have different creatures there, mythological no doubt, that pass for Realtors. But, I think they are the same everywhere.
    Ouch!


  40. #40
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Timely little event on today's job. While I was in the L.L. of the home, the client, or one of the kids in tow, accidentally knocked over a small kitchen table upstairs. Whatever was on the table shattered. Now the agent let everyone in and was the overseer of all goings on. Not much chance I'll get pulled into this one. Had it only been me and the buyer...........?

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Timely little event on today's job. While I was in the L.L. of the home, the client, or one of the kids in tow, accidentally knocked over a small kitchen table upstairs. Whatever was on the table shattered. Now the agent let everyone in and was the overseer of all goings on. Not much chance I'll get pulled into this one. Had it only been me and the buyer...........?
    Like I said. I don't get it, never ever have such concerns. Remodelling, inspecting, in thousands of homes, just do not have those concerns. Besides, if the little son of a so and so broke anything then mom and dad are liable to pay for it. If they don't then send Anthony to have a little talk with them. Again, I just don't ever have these concerns. Tell your buyers to leave the kids in the vehicle or, like you should, have your clients come in the end for a walk thru so the little Bs don't have a chance to get into anything. A wonderful reason to not have the clients there the whole time. The reasons for it just keep adding up the more everyone inputs into this thread.

    Keep the clients out till the end. Life will be wonderful


  42. #42
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Success with Supra keys is regional. In my area it is a standing joke among home inspectors.
    I rarely have a problem getting someone to open the house for me. Maybe once a year I have a problem.

    I don't care who is at the inspection with me. As far as telling the sellers to leave? Sorry, it's still their house, and I am the guest. Most leave, but some don't. I don't care, i do the same job no matter who is there.

    I have a few rules I live by. I use shoe covers at EVERY house.
    I NEVER use a table for my computer, or sit in a chair. I use the kitchen counter, or some other counter space.
    I ALWAYS use an oversize mouse pad under the laptop, so it's not possible for it to scratch or mark the counter.
    If I make a mess, I clean it up (attic insulation, etc).

    However, I will cut a lock off an electric panel or crawlspace door without hesitation. If they have used 14 3" screws to attach a cover to the attic or crawlspace, I may put 4 back in.


  43. #43
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    As Jack referenced, I would have telling a seller to leave their own home. By the same token, I'm not going to tell a client to not come to any portion of an inspection that they are paying for.

    I'd hate for anyone to take Ted's approach (which I think I understand) the wrong way. I think that the inspector has to provide some give and take with other people's schedules. I've taken a couple of 6 PM jobs recently because someone was in a pinch. I've even worked a Sunday or two. If a request is reasonable and do-able, I'll break from a normal routine to help accommodate a client, home owner or even an agent.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Like everything else, all on this thread seem to have a different take on inspection etiquette. Here are some of my rules. they are rarely bent and never broken.

    1. I, like the listing agent, have little control over the seller being present in his own house during the inspection. If they are present, I exercise that little bit of control. I first lay down the rules: (A) I will be turning on all of the lights, A/Cs, appliances, etc., so please do not turn them off. If you turn something off while I am in the process of inspecting it, this will add more time to the inspection which I will charge the buyer for and recommend he charge you for in turn, (B) If there is anything obstructing my access to attics, main distribution panelboards, water heater closets, et al., please remove the offending plunder now, or explain to the buyer why you will not do so. (C) Please make me a list of all of the things you have had repaired in the last 5 years. Yes, I know you filled out a seller's disclosure statement, but it looked a little light to me. Please expound upon these particular items. (D) Have you had termites or carpenter ants? If so, where exactly, and when. If treatment was done, do you have an invoice from the exterminator. (E) Have you made any repairs whatsoever more complicated that replacing a light bulb since you took ownership of the home? If so, please add those to the list of items in (C) above. This can go on nearly forever, and will, depending upon how much resistance I get from the seller.

    2. The buyers can come or not, that is their prerogative. If they attend I simply tell them that I will be "in the zone" for the next couple of hours, do not disturb me for this will result in errors. Save all questions until I am finished. Keep your children on a leash. I will be working with live electrical components, ladders, etc. that can injure children. Any injuries will be your responsibility. They are, after all, your children. If they cannot keep them in line, I will simply pack my stuff and leave. Period. This also applies to sellers' children.

    3. I do not wear booties. Yes, I know I asked about them on another thread, and was supplied some by Rick, but eventually talked my way out of that episode. Booties and short pants are for little boys, not grown men.

    4. While I have received many phone calls over the years from sellers and their agents demanding restitution for alleged damaged or missing items, I have not sent anyone any money - ever. A couple of times I did pull badly installed window blinds off the wall. Instead of arguing about the BS, I simply taped a $10 bill to the blinds with a note that read: "Take this money a buy the proper screws for installing these blinds. Do not call me for advice, watch the proper HGTV episode for further instructions.

    5. Agents can also come and go as they please. What do I care? As long as they stay out of my way, do not ask stupid questions, or presume to know something about my profession, all will be well. If they attempt, even once, to impose their will during my verbal summation with the buyers, I simply ask them to leave.

    You can either act as if you are in control of your jobsite during an inspection or you can allow someone else to usurp that control from you. How you deal with this control issue speaks to whether or not you are a true professional. Walk into your attorney's or doctor's office and start laying down the rules for them. Let us all know how that works out for you.


  45. #45
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    As Jack referenced, I would have telling a seller to leave their own home. By the same token, I'm not going to tell a client to not come to any portion of an inspection that they are paying for.

    I'd hate for anyone to take Ted's approach (which I think I understand) the wrong way. I think that the inspector has to provide some give and take with other people's schedules. I've taken a couple of 6 PM jobs recently because someone was in a pinch. I've even worked a Sunday or two. If a request is reasonable and do-able, I'll break from a normal routine to help accommodate a client, home owner or even an agent.

    I knew you were going to come back. My responces are in general. I do things in a nice way and explain them in a nice way. I to make "resonable concessions". I to have worked on Sunday afternoon. I for one never work after six PM to start an inspection. The only reason you probably did is because they could not get there by then. In those cases I explain nicely that I can get there earlier and be finishing up by then and then I can devote quality time to them in a thorough walk around. They don't work nights. They are buying the home. To ask me to start at 6 because they cannot get there until then because they have a day job "like me" is completely unreasonable. Let them finish their day at work so you have to work nights....Aint happening...Again, I have a day job, not second shift. If I lose an inspection a year because of that then that would be exagerating.

    I am kind, I am pleasant, I am understanding. Yes some of my clients are there the whole time. No, I do not tell the sellers to get out, the listing agents explain to them that it is concidered possible undo influence for the seller to be there especially when you are trying to go over the findings with a client. Justified....sure.

    If you were to go back over all the posts on this thread and other threads you will see why I made the statement that it all adds up to why a buyer should not be there to the end. No big deal, to each his own. I keep using Texas as an example because I am not going back 20 or more years. I do not get questions of payment or messy or moved around items. For one, I almost never move a sellers belongings with the exception of a small item in front of the panel or water heater or fireplace screen etc. I have never ever gotten a call in 37 years of working for missing items or breakage, ever. I do not have POd clients after explaining to them about their benefits of coming in the end. As I say, some do.

    I may sound or come of like a hard ass on here about these types of threads but it is usually to get a point across. I am a loveable cuddly Teddy Bear to my clients.

    I guess what I am saying is anyone can be nicely convinced of just about anything if put to them in the proper manner and always to "their" benefit and their well being and financial statis and liability etc. The fewer people at an inspection, always the better. The fewer sellers at an inspection, always the better. No kids at an inspection, always better.

    You left alone to do your job......................Priceless.

    Oh yeah Just so no one thinks I am personally attacking their view point....Or is it Point of View.

    Back to what I do not like doing at home.....A report.......That was directed at Aaron. Luckily a maticulous home with almost zero findings. Yes, this time the owners were there. It was a one year warranty. They are always there.


  46. #46
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Ted, this is for you!

    rick

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  47. #47
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Ted, this is for you!

    rick

    Got it Rick

    I gotta tell yeah. Your hand was a little sweety!!!!!!!!!!!! Where has that hand been????????????????????


  48. #48
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    I have to say, that if A.D came to MY house, and gave me that attitude, I would ask him to leave. I would remind him that he has no authority demanding ANYTHING from me.

    I know I get a lot of business form sellers of homes I inspect. I can't imagine he gets that many with that attitude.


  49. #49
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I have to say, that if A.D came to MY house, and gave me that attitude, I would ask him to leave. I would remind him that he has no authority demanding ANYTHING from me.

    I know I get a lot of business form sellers of homes I inspect. I can't imagine he gets that many with that attitude.
    JF: I do not recall having used the term demand in my post. If I did, please illustrate that to me.

    I do have a certain degree of authority during an inspection which is vested in me by the Texas Real Estate Commission via their promulgated contract between the seller and the buyer. Since you are in Tennessee, I will not go into the details. Understand though that inspectors, at least in Texas, do have a modicum of authority.

    You might indeed ask me to leave your house. I would certainly do as you wished. Along with me would follow your prospective buyer.

    Stupid move on your part, I would say.


  50. #50
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    A.D. it's really all about respect. While you did say PLEASE, your requests seem kind of demanding. Obviously, it's all about how you deliver your requests/demands, as to if you might offend someone.

    I guess what struck me as rude was the comment about the repairs and the disclosure and you telling them it look "light".

    If on the other hand your requests are common to Texas real estate transactions, and it is common for the home inspector to ask the seller for such information, and they are authorized to ask for it, then I stand corrected.

    There is a home inspector here that told his clients and the seller they were not allowed to be in the house while he inspected it, and actually told them his insurance prohibited it. Obviously, he was incorrect and was just being an arrogant a$$hole bully. I don't think the seller would have been stupid throwing him out of HIS house.

    Like I said, it's all about the delivery, and if what is said is true.


  51. #51
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    A.D. it's really all about respect. While you did say PLEASE, your requests seem kind of demanding. Obviously, it's all about how you deliver your requests/demands, as to if you might offend someone.
    JF: You gain my respect or you do not get it. As for your proclivity for PC chatter, I'll take a pass.

    I guess what struck me as rude was the comment about the repairs and the disclosure and you telling them it look "light".
    JF: So then, either you work in an area of totally honest sellers or you just do not understand the issue.

    If on the other hand your requests are common to Texas real estate transactions, and it is common for the home inspector to ask the seller for such information, and they are authorized to ask for it, then I stand corrected.
    JF: It was never my goal to correct you. I could not possibly care less how you conduct your business. I was simply stating how I conduct mine. Agree or disagree, it is all the same to me.

    There is a home inspector here that told his clients and the seller they were not allowed to be in the house while he inspected it, and actually told them his insurance prohibited it.
    JF: There are idiots everywhere.

    I don't think the seller would have been stupid throwing him out of HIS house.
    JF: Perhaps not. He would not, however, be wise to take that particular tack with me.

    Like I said, it's all about the delivery, and if what is said is true.
    JF: "The delivery" as you call it, must be formulated on the spot at any given time, based upon what the conditions call for. The canned, sweet-talking, genuflecting, servile attitude that you seem to be suggesting would not work for me under any circumstances. It is simply not my style - and never will be.


  52. #52
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    Thumbs down Re: Supra Keys

    I guess you have proven the point that there are a$$holes everywhere, some work hard at it, some are ignorant of it, and some are both ignorant AND A$$holes.
    Not interested in continuing this dialog, it's a huge waste of my time. in fact, just added you to my ignore list.


  53. #53
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    Default Re: Supra Keys

    there are a$$holes everywhere, some work hard at it, some are ignorant of it, and some are both ignorant AND A$$holes
    JF: Your quaint approach may work better on your Republican brethren.


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