Thread: Legal Recourse? Advice please!

Hello all,
I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I need some advice.

I have been doing some work for a construction company down here in Houston who gets requests from a bank for draw inspections. This company in turn contacts me to do the draw inspection for the bank. I haven't had any problems with this company before.

Now I still haven't received payment for multiple inspections I have done for this company coming up to around $2,000. And the last check I received from them bounced.

I have tried calling, email, text messaging, and everything else to get hold of these guys and they never pick up or respond, and they flat out lied to me last time I talked to them, telling me they sent a check (before I found out the last one bounced), a week and a half later no check.

I had a buddy of mine call them from his work phone (which shows up on caller ID as ++++ Construction), which they picked up. So I know they are avoiding my calls. My buddy hung up because I wasn't with him otherwise I would have talked to them.

I only have a PO Box as their address, and I don't quite remember where there actual office is located exactly so I can't exactly go down there and talk to them face to face....

I have never had this problem before, I am really fighting to stay on my feet with the economy and all, and this is the worst possible time for this to happen.

If anyone has any advice as to what I can do in this situation it would be much appreciated.

I have thought of filing a complaint with the BBB and getting a lawyer to write them a letter. Does any one think that would do anything or am I going to have to take these guys to court?

Sorry for the long story but it's a downer to me.
....and sorry if I posted in the wrong section, but I thought this looked like the place.

Thanks.

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You could probably take them to court, but your going to have out of pocket expenses to do so.

This is why many on here many say all the time. NO Check / NO report.

I know your new in the business and need the money, but with them giving you a bounced check already your probably best to chalk it up as experience and move on. You might contact the bank and plead your case. Maybe they can give you some information on these people.

Forget complaining to the BBB, they about as useless as a turd in a punchbowl.

Just my honest opinion.

rick

Originally Posted by Joel Anderson

Hello all,
I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I need some advice.

I have been doing some work for a construction company down here in Houston who gets requests from a bank for draw inspections. This company in turn contacts me to do the draw inspection for the bank. I haven't had any problems with this company before.

Now I still haven't received payment for multiple inspections I have done for this company coming up to around $2,000. And the last check I received from them bounced.

I have tried calling, email, text messaging, and everything else to get hold of these guys and they never pick up or respond, and they flat out lied to me last time I talked to them, telling me they sent a check (before I found out the last one bounced), a week and a half later no check.

I had a buddy of mine call them from his work phone (which shows up on caller ID as ++++ Construction), which they picked up. So I know they are avoiding my calls. My buddy hung up because I wasn't with him otherwise I would have talked to them.

I only have a PO Box as their address, and I don't quite remember where there actual office is located exactly so I can't exactly go down there and talk to them face to face....

I have never had this problem before, I am really fighting to stay on my feet with the economy and all, and this is the worst possible time for this to happen.

If anyone has any advice as to what I can do in this situation it would be much appreciated.

I have thought of filing a complaint with the BBB and getting a lawyer to write them a letter. Does any one think that would do anything or am I going to have to take these guys to court?

Sorry for the long story but it's a downer to me.
....and sorry if I posted in the wrong section, but I thought this looked like the place.

Thanks.

Go down to the city hall. Put a lien on the properties that you have done inspections on. It will cost you about 16.00 apiece.

Actually put a list together. The exact same list you are going to the city hall to put a lien on. Fax this to the builder and tell them you are heading down to the city hall to put a lien on all these properties and wanted to inform him in advance. He will most likely call you immediately and offer to pay you something. Tell him "Fine , I will be right over to pick up the cashiers check for the 2000 nplus the cost of the bounced check and of course my time involved in trying to collect this money." "2500 should cover it. How long will it take you to get to the bank for the cashiers check? I will be over at 12 to pick it up"

They don't want a lien on the property because they cannot sell it with a lien on it. A lien also shows up immediately on the builders credit report as soon as the court files it. You can always pass that info on to them as well.

You will get your money. You can also pull a Rick Hurst and sit outside the sales trailer with a dead beat builder sign in hand. That also works.

Ted has all good points. It can be hard at times but keep a stiff upper lip. you will get paid on this as long as you have your duck in hand. contracts?

When you file the lien on all these properties hand copies over to the clerk at the recorders office. don't wait for them to get around to the recording proses. Next take copies to the bank you have been working with. time to play hard ball. take copies to the job site and post them on the building you inspected. If you see any real estate signs go see that agent and give him copies. Then take copies to the Foreman on the job site.

This will get the money flowing YOUR WAY...

YOU WILL GET A PHONE CALL... Be cool about it not mad just be cool.

Best

Ron

If the above doesn't work or is too much work you could file a small claims suit against them. I'm not sure about Texas but in Oregon it's pretty easy to get a physical address for a registered agent (person who takes legal papers for the business) or for someone responsible for the business.

There is usually a public record,probably a business certificate at the town or county clerks office.On the rubber check there should be a name and address if a business check.Or plant yourself in front of the PO box.Do not work for a business that will not give an address.They are hiding something.

Is it the construction company that owes you the money, or is it a draw inspection jobber that owes you?

If it is the construction company, you need to let the bank that you did the draw inspections for know. Send the bank an invoice and the building owner the same and I bet that you will get some action. Draw fees are included in the bank loan. The builder is not paying the draw fee, whoever has the loan is paying. The bank is really who should be paying you.

You might not be able to place a lien on the property as you were actually doing the draw inspection for the bank, even though you were not contracted by the bank.

If this is a draw inspection jobber, you need to post their name on this site......

Take the bounced check to the local police station and ask if a detective could assist you. It is a crime to pass a bad check.

If in fact the construction company hired you to do the inspection it does not matter who the inspection ultimately goes to for the transfer of money.

Scott has a good point about you doing the inspection for the bank so the builder can get the draw but again if he hired you directly and it is a property that he is building (of course it is) then you go down to the clerks office, present the list of properties that you have not received money for and put a lien on those properties. In Texas it is 16 dollars to file a lien on a property. As soon as that lien is filed it goes on the credit report that the lien is on. It will also cost 15 dollars for the builder to have the clerks office remove the lien from the credit report after he pays the 15 dollar fee. It does not come off automatically.

No need for the expense of small claims court. The only thing small claims court will do it maybe award you a little aggravation money for the time spent pursuing the collection

I'm no lawyer, but how can you just walk into a court house and file a lien? Won't you need some type of judgment in hand before you walk in? If not, what's stopping anyone and everyone from filing a lien on property all over the place. Your mechanic could charge you five times what he said he would, and then file a lien on your house if you didn't pay. Every slime ball re-modeler in the world would pull that trick.

Has anyone filed a lien this way without going to court beforehand?

You will likely not be successful in filing a mechanic's lien because you did not make physical improvements to the property.

Assuming that the total owed to you does not exceed $10,000, you can file in small claims court - with or without an attorney:

State Bar of Texas | How to Sue in Small Claims Court

All lessons are hard to learn. they are all good lessons if you actually do learn something. So then, get over it and absorb as much information as you can. I know it is easier said than done, but believe me, I have been this route before.

Originally Posted by Jim Robinson

I'm no lawyer, but how can you just walk into a court house and file a lien? Won't you need some type of judgment in hand before you walk in? If not, what's stopping anyone and everyone from filing a lien on property all over the place. Your mechanic could charge you five times what he said he would, and then file a lien on your house if you didn't pay. Every slime ball re-modeler in the world would pull that trick.

Has anyone filed a lien this way without going to court beforehand?

Yes you do need payper work to do so.

No you do not have to go to court first.

No a mechanic can not put a lien on your home.

No, not every slime ball contractor can put a lien on a home without paper work to show some kind of proof.

If you perform a service on someones home (even builder/bank owned) and they did not pay you for your service with the exception af a payment where the check bounced then you can put a lien on the property. This includes a supplier that fronted a builder materials and the builder never paid for the materials. The supply can put a lien on the property.

You might ask what prevents someone from putting a fraudulent lien on a property.

Fine and or imprisonment. I think that about covers the slime ball just trying to get money from you.

I will say again...with a proper paper trail. No paper trail...no lien.

How do you think liens get put on properties that hold up sales all the time and the title company cannot get clear title to go forward.

JA:

If you are seriously taking legal advice from TM, then you are in much deeper stuff than you can even begin to imagine. Contact an attorney or paralegal for remedial options and stop getting your legal advice from forums on the Internet.

Rockport Boy: Read this, along with the other link I sent you. These should put you on the right track.

Texas Mechanic's Lien and Bond Claim Law

Also, take a look here: Texas Check Laws

The following is for informational purposes only. It does not constitute, and is not a substitute for legal advice. For advice on your specific facts and circumstances consult a Licensed Attorney.

I would sugest you consult with an attorney before you proceed with any lien actions.

HG: You could have saved the bandwidth and pared it down to just that.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Go down to the city hall. Put a lien on the properties that you have done inspections on. It will cost you about 16.00 apiece.

Actually put a list together. The exact same list you are going to the city hall to put a lien on. Fax this to the builder and tell them you are heading down to the city hall to put a lien on all these properties and wanted to inform him in advance. He will most likely call you immediately and offer to pay you something. Tell him "Fine , I will be right over to pick up the cashiers check for the 2000 nplus the cost of the bounced check and of course my time involved in trying to collect this money." "2500 should cover it. How long will it take you to get to the bank for the cashiers check? I will be over at 12 to pick it up"

They don't want a lien on the property because they cannot sell it with a lien on it. A lien also shows up immediately on the builders credit report as soon as the court files it. You can always pass that info on to them as well.

You will get your money. You can also pull a Rick Hurst and sit outside the sales trailer with a dead beat builder sign in hand. That also works.

The following is for informational purposes only. It does not constitute, and is not a substitute for legal advice. For advice on your specific facts and circumstances consult a Licensed Attorney.

I am writing only because some of what has already been posted on this string as recommendations or advice, if acted upon, might constitute criminal behavior.

As I recall (and its been a long while since a Texan bounced a check on me and didn't make it right within two weeks so I may not be remembering all the ins and outs on the subject), there are at least two ways a bounced check can be criminally procecuted, Issuance of a Bad Check (IBC) or Theft by Check. Its Theft by check if the provider of merchandise or services does so at the time the check writer renders the check. It can also be Theft by Check if the writer was paying off for prior services knowing that you would not provide current services without the older debt being paid (see * below). Theft by Check can be a felony if the individual check or a cumulative total of returned or stopped checks for services is over $1,500.

You first have to notify the writer (documented signer on the check - if check has two signatures must notify both parties - you're writing the individuals not the "company generally" because its the individuals who are criminally responsible if there was in fact a crime) the check was returned insufficient funds or refused, and request restitution and give them 10 days to correct the situation. Then, if the matter hasn't been corrected, and only then can you seek to persue criminal charges by referring the matter to the District Attorney.

That notice letter has to be properly constructed and sent. Your local District Attorney's Office may have a booklet and example forms you might want to consult. You might also want to look up Texas Penal Code Sec. 32.41 it has specific notice language for Issuance of Bad Check notice and demand letters. Lubbock County D.A. has a great Hot Check Task Force site you might want to check it out - especially the cautions section, start at the this page: Lubbock County CDA - History

Be sure to read up at all the links at the bottom of this page too: Lubbock County CDA - Checks

You might also want to refer to Texas Penal Code Sections 31.01; 31.03 & 31.04

Next, adding unreasonable fees or accepting an amount in excess of the bad check, might be considered criminal activity(extortive/blackmail/soliciting or conspiring-bribe or corrupt influence or usury), and can also mess up your civil case should you need to persue it (unclean hands - Bribery/Corrupt Influence, TPC Chapter 36 ); I would avoid adding anything other than "a reasonable processing fee of not more than $xx.xx" or whatever the Code currently allows to your notice and demand letter to the "issuer(s)" of the returned or refused check.

Time lost, income lost, work lost, personal expenses, etc. aren't listed as affirmative defenses to such a charge. Therefore I would caution you against the ideas suggested by another, i.e. including a demand (verbal or written) for large amounts of money in excess of the actual hot check or accepting restitution in an amount higher than the bounced check and any statutorily limited "processing fee".

I would also keep seperate and distinct any communications regarding collection activities for other unpaid inspections/report services.

Personally I haven't bothered to include a processing fee, since if the case ends up being criminally prosecuted and is recovered that way, or civil judgement for collection and/or bankruptcy it gets complicated about when that fee has to be refunded, or if you waive interest - so I chose to not include any "fees" in the few demand letters I've had to issue to Texans.

(*) In most cases checks given to pay pre-existing debts do not meet the requirements for a theft by check charge. If the check writer obtained possession of additional merchandise or secured performance of a further service because he/she paid a pre-existing debt, then the check writer may have stolen the additional merchandise or the further service if he/she would not have been able to obtain the merchandise or service without paying the existing debt. If you think your check may qualify as a theft even though its purpose was for payment of a pre-existing debt you might want to present your case to the District Attorney that way.

If the check was returned or is returned a second time as Payment Stopped, you treat it similar to the IBC letter; however if it is determined that the checking account didn't have sufficient funds on the day it was written, even though payment was stopped later, because it was for services, it might still be considered theft by check (but this doesn't apply if you agreed to "hold" the check at the time it was presented or accepted a post-dated check.

Quantum merit is one of those latin terms (legalease) that is used when foreclosing a mechanic's lien. The contract, terms, etc. are what are used to substantiate a mechanic's lien. The "court review" takes place when after notice and filing of the lien, the mechanic's lien is "foreclosed", usually in what is sometimes called a "quiet title" action.

Civil actions involving "real estate" can be rather dicey, procedural rules, forms, timing, and documentation and executed written agreements may be required to be followed exactly, especially for relationships/transactions exceeding a certain dollar amount - sometimes reviewed as a cumulative amount for a particular property.

In addition to the filing of a lien, you may or may not want to file a "lis pendins" on the property as you persue a foreclosure action of your lien (another latin legalease term meaning litigation is pending) or other collection activity.

The laws and procedural rules vary significantly in differing jurisdictions. I would sugest you consult with an attorney before you proceed with any lien actions. There are also a host of credit laws (local and federal) that have to be considered when collecting debts. I don't recall if Small Claims Cases with companies as parties require an attorney or are jurisdictionally or procedurally barred in Texas or in certain counties.

31.01, 31.03, 31.04, 32.41, 36.02, 36.05, 36.06

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

The following is for informational purposes only. It does not constitute, and is not a substitute for legal advice. For advice on your specific facts and circumstances consult a Licensed Attorney.

I am writing only because some of what has already been posted on this string as recommendations or advice, if acted upon, might constitute criminal behavior.

As I recall (and its been a long while since a Texan bounced a check on me and didn't make it right within two weeks so I may not be remembering all the ins and outs on the subject), there are at least two ways a bounced check can be criminally procecuted, Issuance of a Bad Check (IBC) or Theft by Check. Its Theft by check if the provider of merchandise or services does so at the time the check writer renders the check. It can also be Theft by Check if the writer was paying off for prior services knowing that you would not provide current services without the older debt being paid (see * below). Theft by Check can be a felony if the individual check or a cumulative total of returned or stopped checks for services is over $1,500.

You first have to notify the writer (documented signer on the check - if check has two signatures must notify both parties - you're writing the individuals not the "company generally" because its the individuals who are criminally responsible if there was in fact a crime) the check was returned insufficient funds or refused, and request restitution and give them 10 days to correct the situation. Then, if the matter hasn't been corrected, and only then can you seek to persue criminal charges by referring the matter to the District Attorney.

That notice letter has to be properly constructed and sent. Your local District Attorney's Office may have a booklet and example forms you might want to consult. You might also want to look up Texas Penal Code Sec. 32.41 it has specific notice language for Issuance of Bad Check notice and demand letters. Lubbock County D.A. has a great Hot Check Task Force site you might want to check it out - especially the cautions section, start at the this page: Lubbock County CDA - History

Be sure to read up at all the links at the bottom of this page too: Lubbock County CDA - Checks

You might also want to refer to Texas Penal Code Sections 31.01; 31.03 & 31.04

Next, adding unreasonable fees or accepting an amount in excess of the bad check, might be considered criminal activity(extortive/blackmail/soliciting or conspiring-bribe or corrupt influence or usury), and can also mess up your civil case should you need to persue it (unclean hands - Bribery/Corrupt Influence, TPC Chapter 36 ); I would avoid adding anything other than "a reasonable processing fee of not more than $xx.xx" or whatever the Code currently allows to your notice and demand letter to the "issuer(s)" of the returned or refused check.

Time lost, income lost, work lost, personal expenses, etc. aren't listed as affirmative defenses to such a charge. Therefore I would caution you against the ideas suggested by another, i.e. including a demand (verbal or written) for large amounts of money in excess of the actual hot check or accepting restitution in an amount higher than the bounced check and any statutorily limited "processing fee".

I would also keep seperate and distinct any communications regarding collection activities for other unpaid inspections/report services.

Personally I haven't bothered to include a processing fee, since if the case ends up being criminally prosecuted and is recovered that way, or civil judgement for collection and/or bankruptcy it gets complicated about when that fee has to be refunded, or if you waive interest - so I chose to not include any "fees" in the few demand letters I've had to issue to Texans.

(*) In most cases checks given to pay pre-existing debts do not meet the requirements for a theft by check charge. If the check writer obtained possession of additional merchandise or secured performance of a further service because he/she paid a pre-existing debt, then the check writer may have stolen the additional merchandise or the further service if he/she would not have been able to obtain the merchandise or service without paying the existing debt. If you think your check may qualify as a theft even though its purpose was for payment of a pre-existing debt you might want to present your case to the District Attorney that way.

If the check was returned or is returned a second time as Payment Stopped, you treat it similar to the IBC letter; however if it is determined that the checking account didn't have sufficient funds on the day it was written, even though payment was stopped later, because it was for services, it might still be considered theft by check (but this doesn't apply if you agreed to "hold" the check at the time it was presented or accepted a post-dated check.

Quantum merit is one of those latin terms (legalease) that is used when foreclosing a mechanic's lien. The contract, terms, etc. are what are used to substantiate a mechanic's lien. The "court review" takes place when after notice and filing of the lien, the mechanic's lien is "foreclosed", usually in what is sometimes called a "quiet title" action.

Civil actions involving "real estate" can be rather dicey, procedural rules, forms, timing, and documentation and executed written agreements may be required to be followed exactly, especially for relationships/transactions exceeding a certain dollar amount - sometimes reviewed as a cumulative amount for a particular property.

In addition to the filing of a lien, you may or may not want to file a "lis pendins" on the property as you persue a foreclosure action of your lien (another latin legalease term meaning litigation is pending) or other collection activity.

The laws and procedural rules vary significantly in differing jurisdictions. I would sugest you consult with an attorney before you proceed with any lien actions. There are also a host of credit laws (local and federal) that have to be considered when collecting debts. I don't recall if Small Claims Cases with companies as parties require an attorney or are jurisdictionally or procedurally barred in Texas or in certain counties.

31.01, 31.03, 31.04, 32.41, 36.02, 36.05, 36.06

HG:

Originally Posted by John Ghent

Take the bounced check to the local police station and ask if a detective could assist you. It is a crime to pass a bad check.

John has a good idea but I think you could just bypass the police and go straight to the District Attorney which probably prosecutes Hot Check writers.

rick

Rick was saying you should get some guys with video cameras and about 5 other big guys and go find these clowns. get and encounter with them on video and post it on You tube. That would be so cool...

I Want to see that... You should have some fun with. So you get your cash and have some fun at the same time. Thats a win / win... I like it...

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

HG:

Aaron,

Did you really expect something else from him?

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

HG: You could have saved the bandwidth and pared it down to just that.

Consult with an attorney for a 2,000 debt. My God man...there goes another 2000 or more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as te rest of the crap.......................Charging unreasonable fees. Like what...Your time.....Not unreasonable at all.

Might or might not be criminal. It is criminal to not pay for services rendered for one. For another...writing a bad check to anyone for anything is illegal. Yes he can put a lien on the property and yes the DA will prosecute in Texas for writing bad checks.

Things get a bit deep around here sometimes. Way to much thought for simple matters.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Consult with an attorney for a 2,000 debt. My God man...there goes another 2000 or more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as te rest of the crap.......................Charging unreasonable fees. Like what...Your time.....Not unreasonable at all.

Might or might not be criminal. It is criminal to not pay for services rendered for one. For another...writing a bad check to anyone for anything is illegal. Yes he can put a lien on the property and yes the DA will prosecute in Texas for writing bad checks.

Things get a bit deep around here sometimes. Way to much thought for simple matters.

Its a good thing we are all not in the same room

I got more crap I can add to this list...

Best

Ron

Thanks everyone for your advice, I got a breif e-mail today saying that apperantly another big check had cleared before I cashed mine and they would be able to take care of me on Friday..... Well I can smell the bull from across the pasture, I think (know) they are just giving me the run around.

I am not sure if I can put a lein on the property because this company has been acting as a middle man between me and the bank. They are not actually doing the construction for the bank.

It can also be Theft by Check if the writer was paying off for prior services knowing that you would not provide current services without the older debt being paid

Thats exactly what happened. They knew they had outstanding debit and they issued me a (hot) check so I would go and do the next draw....

I don't really know. I'll try contacting them tomorrow, and if they try to give me the run around I guess I'll have to do small claims court and visit the police to see if the hot check division can do anything.

If this is a draw inspection jobber, you need to post their name on this site......

CBK Construction

If anyone is ever contacted by them to do a inspection..... Don't!

Thanks for all the advice y'all, I have a better idea of what direction I should be heading now.

Joel, I've been doing progress or "draw" inspections for quite awhile as a subcontractor for an inspection company hired by the banks. I've been very fortunate not to have any problems getting paid (It helps that my wife's uncle was the president of the inspection company when I started... I know where he lives ).

I've gotten to know the builders pretty well over the past few years and I know if I was experiencing what you are it would only take one phone call to the builders to get the bank and loan officer information for each job. I'm pretty sure the banks wouldn't like the fact that their representatives are stiffing the inspectors. You never know, after hearing what's taking place they may be in the market for a new inspections company to work with.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Aaron,

Did you really expect something else from him?

JP: Nope. If more is better, then HG is the best.

Kyle: Ya, I think I'll be contacting the bank on Monday. May as well cut out the middle man.

....CBK is still givin me the run around.... blah....

Originally Posted by Joel Anderson

Thanks everyone for your advice, I got a breif e-mail today saying that apperantly another big check had cleared before I cashed mine and they would be able to take care of me on Friday..... Well I can smell the bull from across the pasture, I think (know) they are just giving me the run around.

Thanks for all the advice y'all, I have a better idea of what direction I should be heading now.

O.K. Take the bounced check to the bank that they use on Monday when the bank opens. Present it and if they have the money to cover it then cash it or ask for a cashiers check. If that does not work it's back to the PoPo.

PoPo isn't where you go. PoPo will tell you "its a civil matter". That's half right and half wrong. In Texas, you don't go to the PoPo on a bounced check returned NSF.

I offered links to a task force, those links will offer you additional links which includes the statute, the statute has specific rules and language that must be used in the notification/demand letter. The statute also provides for how that notice must be served.

The clock is ticking.

The notice must be sent within a certain time period.

Then their reply clock starts ticking.

All must be accomplished within a certain time frame, if your notice letter is tardy - you can end up on the losing side.

The expense of performing proper notice is minimal, suggest you cover all your bases there (a mere extra $5 or less in postage fees and two extra copies of the letter and envelopes).

If you execute and deliver your notice correctly, timely (and within the limits perscribed by law) and it is not corrected/satisfied timely, THEN you head on over to the D.A.'s office.

The PoPo is a wasted trip. Send the correct notice, don't make extortive demands, use the statutory language to draft your notice.

I provided the applicable statute citations, including some that pertain to the "not so legal" suggestions by others.

Point being, don't wait for them to make restitution on the bad check, get that notification/demand letter off to the writer NOW. CYA on the methods of delivery - if you limit to just sending Certified return receipt requrested, the experienced scammer will simply refuse delivery or fail to pick it up (after 2 attempts at delivery and notices are left), and let it be returned to you.

Then if restitution hasn't been made, with your proof of notice, delivery, etc. and the hot check, with you to the D.A.'s office.