Thread: What's the biggest threat to our industry?

Wondering what everyone is scared of? Basically, what could put an end to our industry as we know it? And, not lawsuits... that's a given. And, not even just market fluctuations.... if the recent crisis has taught us anything it's that people have to buy houses even in the worst of times. I've fed my family over the last 4 years.... barely at times.... but I've managed to stay away from delivering pizzas on the weekends.

What I'm thinking is some change in technology or the way real estate transactions are done that would shift our work elsewhere.

As an example, my aunt ran a very sucessful travel agency for years.... then came the internet. Aunt in 2011: Out of work.

Kind of like we're all the local hardware store..... is there a Home Depot or Lowes that could move in and put us all out of business?

I personally don't spend a lot of time worrying about this and don't think it's possible but I am curious if anyone has any thoughts. Afterall, this industry did pretty much rise up out of nowhere 30/40 years ago. It would seem foolish to just take it totally granted.

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One thought is we could end up like the appraisers. They spend years building relationships with mortgage companies, Realtors, and past clients, then lose it all to a lottery system.

I know a lot of appraisers, and they have been hit hard.

The threat to Professionalism in this industry comes from the steady stream of unemployed and retired guys who think this is all about reporting dripping faucets and burned-out light bulbs, and jump in. There was a whole cohort that came on board, helped by info from the internet, starting maybe 2002, that has quietly dropped out after realizing that there is a lot to know, and to report, and the fees aren't really that great after paying expenses/ overhead. But there are always more newbies joining in.

At conferences I go to, its all paunchy old dudes. They rely on spouses' medical, or VA, or medicare/medicaid to help them close the gap. And they dial down their reports so that the deal goes thru and the broker is happy and gives them more work. Younger inspectors are scared off by the lack of net income in the biz, and by how unreliable and seasonal the work can be.

I'm shocked at how plain vanilla some of the sample reports on web sites are. They even miss stuff that is obvious in their pictures.

The bottom line is: this may very well end up being a subsidized business going forward, with most inspectors either part-timing it, and/or getting help with overhead from spouse/family/govt. Of course there will always be a niche for the high-end inspector, who serves the professional class that is willing to pay for detailed reports. But for the unwashed masses, the quick and dirty report is going to be the norm. You get what you pay for.

JB

I don't see this the same as appraisers. Choosing a home inspector would be like choosing a contractor or doctor. There is some freedom in whom you choose to provide the service. I see the appraisal as a bit different.

The only threat that I see are the "low-baller" inspectors. Granted, they will eventually go out of business, but there always seem to be more to take their place.

I bet the appraisers thought that too. :-)

Everyone has made some really good points. I think the 'big' threat from low-ballers and check box franchisees has come and gone. There will always be more of them but I doubt to the extent there have been.
The greatest threat to our industry? Agents and politicians. Agents because they fear good reports. Politicians because they listen to people with money (read RE association). We've already seen it in recent years. House systems get more complicated, remediation costs are far higher, and every buyer wants to blame someone else. The days of checkbox douchebags getting away with it are slowing grinding into the past. People and houses demand more realistic inspections and results. Buyers have begun to understand the importance of an inspection beyond the gimmicky crap it used to be (or still is for some). The days of quick, easy sales have mostly disappeared for agents. Their bickering about 'he's a deal killer' will subside eventually because a deal not going through because of an HI will become more normal. Of course if owners stop watching DIY shows and start demanding better work from contractors it will be less of an issue.
Individually the greatest threat for us is standing still. I've long felt anyone getting into HI and does strictly purchase type HI is doomed. Only maybe 1/2 of what I do is standard HI. The rest is all figuring out problems, possible solutions, Code compliance, cost estimates, light commercial and related work.
There is vast opportunity in our business for growth in related areas. Houses and systems are more complicated. Expertise is needed. HI will not remain the putz field it has been considered.
Pick a particular field and become the go to guy in your area for that specific expertise. As an example, we have a lot of CMU buildings here, essentially (all) with water, mold or other issues. Another area inspector, who posts here, has made himself a bit of a water intrusion expert. He's damn good at it and the jobs fill a lot of his calendar. Because of that niche market he's less susceptible to market fluctuations than a guy just doing purchase HI.

I agree with the expansion or should I say, separate services such as water intrusion. There is not a big call at all around here for mold inspections or radon inspections. Leak detection for plumbing under slabs could be advertised or marketed easy enough with water intrusion as the similar search items are in place for that.

I disagree about the low ballers. They drive the market down in my area tremendously and make it tough to make a good living with the cold calls and with other markets being a bit sour there are still lots of folks getting intro the biz offering everything for one low price.

I also disagree with the deal killer comment as it is huge around here at this time and for the foreseeable future. As long as the Realtors hold the purse strings for so many inspectors (huge around here) there will always be agents that do not want a thorough inspection and then I see them throw the non deal killers under the buss as soon as that soft report goes bad. There will always be Realtor marketing maniacs out there willing to do the soft reports so they can get the 2 a day for a 200 a piece. 80 to 100,000.00 is worth it to many of an inspector that makes them a Realtor marketing maniac that will market them and hold the price down so they can work themselves to death until they figure it out that it will soon kill them or get them sued and lose all they made running hard every day week after week. I have a Realtor that calls me relentlessly for all her family and relatives homes, a half dozen in the past 6 months (large endless family) but will not use me on the other 80% of her sales she has and that is a lot of sales. Walk thru inspections on Pre listing inspections for 100 dollars (not kidding) even where it is illegal in this area (no report for disclosure) but I cannot get the name of the guy she uses.

As far as Home Inspections being the absolute vast majority of inspections from the internet and past inspections. That would be me. I work as a home inspector mostly for buyers on almost 100% of my business. I just booked three inspections in the past 2 hours straight from my website and all three were driving down the road when the called me in search of a home inspector and all three had referrals from their Realtors. They wanted to find their own.

Originally Posted by Matt Fellman

Wondering what everyone is scared of? Basically, what could put an end to our industry as we know it? And, not lawsuits... that's a given. And, not even just market fluctuations.... if the recent crisis has taught us anything it's that people have to buy houses even in the worst of times. I've fed my family over the last 4 years.... barely at times.... but I've managed to stay away from delivering pizzas on the weekends.

What I'm thinking is some change in technology or the way real estate transactions are done that would shift our work elsewhere.

As an example, my aunt ran a very sucessful travel agency for years.... then came the internet. Aunt in 2011: Out of work.

Kind of like we're all the local hardware store..... is there a Home Depot or Lowes that could move in and put us all out of business?

I personally don't spend a lot of time worrying about this and don't think it's possible but I am curious if anyone has any thoughts. Afterall, this industry did pretty much rise up out of nowhere 30/40 years ago. It would seem foolish to just take it totally granted.

I really do not see a threat to our profession. We have a very young profession relatively speaking. Home inspections came into their own back in the early 1970's and really took off in the 1980's. Sure they were being done before then, but not on a large scale. The profession is growing and evolving every year and I can see nothing but change for the better in the future.

I can see colleges around the country getting into the building science and offering degrees in what we now call home inspections. I really do not think it is that far away before we see it being offered.

What was it that Pogo said? I have seen the enemy and it is us?

I really think that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to our profession.

What's the biggest threat to our industry?

Weak association and state licensing standards. I say toughen up the standards to prevent unqualified people from performing inspections for the uninformed public.

Well said Robert. You've made some very good points.

Dom.

Originally Posted by Robert Humphries

In my opinion...

The biggest threat to the inspection industry is the inspector himself. Many inspectors treat this industry with a gross lack of professionalism and seriousness. They treat it like it's a hobby to which they have no professional responsibility to educate consumers, market themselves with pride, or continue their education beyond nominal requirements. It is those types of inspectors that make the professional inspector look like a used car salesman.

The second biggest threat is the inspection industry's general disdain for the dynamic of the industry in which inspectors have chosen to work. In other words, real estate agents are a part of a real estate transaction, and they aren't going away. Get over it. Quit defaming agents in these message boards and your Websites....they read what you write (trust me). It is utterly delusional for inspectors who defame agents on the Web to think that any agent actually "appreciates" your "honesty". I can't tell you how many agents are shaking their heads in disbelief that the very industry (real estate) that is responsible for referring 90% of referrals to inspectors is consistently bashed by inspectors.

The third biggest threat are the associations who don't invest in industry marketing and consumer education in any volume. Money is spent on cheesy, in-house gimmicks that don't motivate consumers to buy more inspections. Consumers buy what they understand and trust, and most consumers still don't know the difference between an inspector and appraiser, so most consumers won't know the value of a well-written report and what to do with it. To many consumers, the inspector, inspection, and the report are just "necessary evils" because their agent made them do it. The average home inspector steps into more homes per year than the average real estate agent, yet it is the agent's industry (NAR) that out-spends and out-wits the inspection industry's associations when it comes to consumer education. No wonder people still think it's okay for agents to earn 6% per transaction.

The fourth biggest threat is a fear of change. As John Brown said in his earlier post, this industry is dominated by retirees who think that being an inspector is akin to being the greeter at Wal-Mart. This industry requires that its business owners think like business owners. This industry requires that whosoever gets involved learn about technology, marketing, finance, engineering ~ whatever it takes. In short, becoming a home inspector requires modernizing your mind and complying with how things are done in this day and age using today's equipment, systems, and processes. I've learned that the NUMBER ONE REASON many "retiree inspectors" place such little value in "change" is because they feel that since they aren't going to make a long-term career of inspecting, they don't feel they need to learn more than what they already know...that's it's too difficult and tedious to modernize their methods.

This is an industry where its operators are waiting on someone else to lead, and none of the leaders of this industry can agree on what color they sky is much less how to improve the industry for the benefit of its operators. All of this bleeds into both the public's and real estate industry's outlook of the inspector as a value-provider.

With that being said, other "contractor" industries suffer similar problems and challenges: landscapers, pest control, roofers, etc. The difference is that the inspection industry is more closely tied to the real estate agent and realty transaction than those other industries so the level of professionalism SHOULD BE greater.

There are roughly 90,000 inspectors in the United States. Roughly 35,000 inspectors are self employed with about 9,000 of them being full-time (including those with part-time jobs). There are enough inspectors who, if willing, can make a huge, positive impact in this industry.

Standards of Practice need to extend beyond the inspection and into the inspector's operation.

Consumer marketing needs to be at the forefront of everyone's mind.

People in this industry need to start getting on the same page ASAP.

Leaders need to start stepping forward. I mean REAL LEADERS with business and marketing acumen who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty, make mistakes, or take action.

-

It all sounded like a marketing pitch to me. We must market and then we must market and then.we must market somemore. Oh, and let us not forget to pay homage to those rolling eyed Realtors because with out being able to market to them we would be nothing.

Let's see, what else did I get out of that? Home inspectors in general are do nothing, go no where, non improved about anything. The associations are a unless piece of poop because they do not Market or educate. Unless of course they market and then market somemore.

"Consumer marketing needs to be the forefront .............. of everything."

Yes, consumer marketing. Not Realtor marketing. It is guys like you that will still keep rolling your eyes along with some Realtors that'll keep Realtors holding the purse strings for a multitude of inspectors forever. Getting referrals from time to time is one thing. Building an entire marketing campaign to Realtors is another.

What were your words? Get over it? Are you kidding me or what? It is thought like that that will never allow change. Yes, it is time to get over it and put your voice outthere to finally put it to an end.

It is time for you to point out the good in all inspectors and help improve upon that and don't lump all inspectors in a large barge labeling them like you did in that (sorry for this) sorry as hell marketing demand and command. You sounded so do Damn desperate to sell everyone on marketing and change but don't change and market and market to the public but market heavily to 90% of where your work cones from ....... Realtors.

That was worse than some if the irritating dribble that I complain about on here.

The only thing you got right.

Market to the public. Then your website, google maps, to you client. 4 inspections so far this week. 3 from my website and one referral from a, previous client with one more previous client to be set for Sat or Mon.

That is what it is all about and I pay no one,to do that for me.

This came from my phone. Also, when I was reading your post a Realtor called and asked if I did reports on site. I said no, that is not the best interest of my client. Then he asked if I did the Termite as well. I said no, that is not in the best interest of my client. Of course I told him the why's. He still wanted me to do the inspection but it was tomorrow afternoon. I told him I was booked. I asked him where he got my name? From three clients I inspected for in the past 3 months that got their own inspector. Very high regards And he wanted to what it was all about. I said, maybe next time.

Well under 20% from Realtors and still making a decent living. How about that?

Keep rolling those eyes with the Realtors

Originally Posted by Robert Humphries

Ted, half the time I don't think you actually read other people's posts to which you reply. You seem to skim them, miss their points, put words in their mouth, hop on a pedestal, then start preaching. Let me remind you that other people are allowed to have opinions, ESPECIALLY in a thread that plainly asks for people's opinions.

-

Exactly Robert. So just as you did praising Realtors and if it were not for them and market market market coming from a marketer and you said

"The second biggest threat is the inspection industry's general disdain for the dynamic of the industry in which inspectors have chosen to work. In other words, real estate agents are a part of a real estate transaction, and they aren't going away. Get over it. Quit defaming agents in these message boards and your Websites....they read what you write (trust me). It is utterly delusional for inspectors who defame agents on the Web to think that any agent actually "appreciates" your "honesty". I can't tell you how many agents are shaking their heads in disbelief that the very industry (real estate) that is responsible for referring 90% of referrals to inspectors is consistently bashed by inspectors."

Which in my opinion was complete baoloney .... in my opinion. You push for change but want the worse part about this business to stay the same, in my opinion


And then


" The average home inspector steps into more homes per year than the average real estate agent, yet it is the agent's industry (NAR) that out-spends and out-wits the inspection industry's associations when it comes to consumer education. No wonder people still think it's okay for agents to earn 6% per transaction."


First they are everything so don't bash them and then they are
not worth their salt and lets tell them so.


Oh well. Enough of all that.


I did read everything Robert and then voiced my opinion of what others stated ..... just like you did. You just did not like what I had to say.


It is time to see things for what they really are.


Oh yeah Robert. No pedestal here. I do think that is what I was saying your entire post sounded like .... in my humble opinion.


Back to my reports for the day.

Have a good evening Robert. It is always a delight.

And then there's Ted, complaining about marketing to Realtors, but trying to book an inspection for a Realtor. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Originally Posted by Ken Rowe

And then there's Ted, complaining about marketing to Realtors, but trying to book an inspection for a Realtor. Hypocrisy at its finest.

You will never quite understand. You were trained to do things in such a way that it is total impossible for you to comprehend. Such thought just explains it further.

Catering to Realtors because that is how you were taught to market youe business and being under the full belief thus is the only way to get business as Robert put forth and you continually try to make everyone believe it is so completely different than getting a referral from a Realtor, unsolicited.

What is so dam difficult to understand that. You may make yourself believe that getting almost all you work directly from Realtors has no influence over you but someday you will even have to admit it to yourself that all the bread on you table has a huge influence over you. There is absolutely no way around it.

How much is your gross brake in dollars from direct Realtor referrals Ken? What did you say? At least 300 inspections a year? Don't even try to say there is no influence.

I rest my case with you but I will be sure to counter someone's opinion in the future when it comes up again.

There's a big difference in marketing to Realtors and catering to Realtors Ted. Unfortunately nobody every taught you the difference. You need to open your eyes and realize that, unlike yourself, other inspectors can do their jobs without being influenced by Realtors. For some of us, unlike yourself, its not all about the money. We actually pride ourselves in protecting our clients (and referring agents) by giving the best inspection possible. You should try it, most agents really like it.

TED

if you hit your thick scull on a wall the wall would crack--too bad--hoping it was the other way around. please get off the realtor referrals, and answer your phone and website-four times a week, way to go--i,m stack and giving my fellow inspectors in my chapter referrals--something very common in our group

as ken stated "i don't cater to realtors" they respect me for a no non sense inspection-straight from the hip.

so again stop bashing inspectors that take realtor referrals--they could be better then you

and i hope your attitude and personnally at time of inspection is better then it is in front of your fellow inspectors on this forum

SO AGAIN STOP WITH THE REALTOR REFERRALS AND DO YOUR OWN THING

take a $%^&*&^ chill pill
cvf

Did someone mention bashing Realtors?

And all that was from a man that puts the call out to his Realtor friends to find out if what he inspected was right or not or if he should have written it up. Yes, those were your words on a past thread. And you really question why I think the buddy system with Realtors should stop. You are the ultimate example.

I give up Charlie. You the man about Realtors. I just happen to think that for the Industries sake the real cosey relationship with Realtors should not be allowed Mr Charlie, the man.

You have a nice time Charlie. When you fire up the Barby this weekend don't forget to have solme of your Realtor friends over for some of those ribs, or do you feed them the filet.

Have a nice night Charlie. You da man. My lips are forever sealed Charlie because you are the man and you told me to ..... right!

TED

AND ALL IN CAPS--I MAY ASK THIS FORUM WHAT THEY THINK OF MY FINDS, AND WHAT THEY WOULD DO--BUT I NEVER CONSULT WITH ANYONE BUT MY CLIENTS- THE-BUYER ABOUT MY REPORTS--AND I REPORT WHAT I FIND --IF SELLER--BUYER AGENT OR CLIENT CONTRADICTS--TO BAD IT IS WHAT IT IS. SO WHY DON'T YOU SHOW ME MY QUOTE WHERE I CONSULT WITH ANY AGENT AND ASK FOR THEIR ADVICE--AGAIN TED FIND THAT WALL AND SMASH IT

BE HELPFUL HERE AND NOT THE TED WAY

MY WEBS BETTER THEN YOUR WEB AND MY PHONE JUST RANG AGAIN

CVF

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

TED

AND ALL IN CAPS--I MAY ASK THIS FORUM WHAT THEY THINK OF MY FINDS, AND WHAT THEY WOULD DO--BUT I NEVER CONSULT WITH ANYONE BUT MY CLIENTS- THE-BUYER ABOUT MY REPORTS--AND I REPORT WHAT I FIND --IF SELLER--BUYER AGENT OR CLIENT CONTRADICTS--TO BAD IT IS WHAT IT IS. SO WHY DON'T YOU SHOW ME MY QUOTE WHERE I CONSULT WITH ANY AGENT AND ASK FOR THEIR ADVICE--AGAIN TED FIND THAT WALL AND SMASH IT

BE HELPFUL HERE AND NOT THE TED WAY

MY WEBS BETTER THEN YOUR WEB AND MY PHONE JUST RANG AGAIN

CVF

Do yourself a favor Charlie. Go over you past posts from sometime back and you will find it and a whole lot more. I do not wish to embarras you so go for it.

Like I said Charlie. You da man. I am done talking such simple logic. You don't get it and you never will. You do things your way Charlie and I will mine. But I give fair warning. Realtors, ticking off Realtors, catering to Realtors, Mass marketing Realtors, dont wan t to upset a Realtor or anythig of the lie is mentikoned in the future .... you can absolutely count on me adding my 2, 4 or even .10 worth into the mix. Like I said Charlie, dig and you shall fiund. I happen to have a memmory. I don't need to dig to quote. You will find it. It starts with 'I put a call out to my Realtor friends. It won't be hard to find.

Have a nice night Charlie. Again. For the last time. By by. Asta

All caps is nice. At least it is better than no caps .... ever!

TED

two cents is all you can contribute. you are a character for sure. i have friends in all areas of the inspection world and realtors are included, sorry you speak so lowly of them. they are what makes are business tick. when i ask you to show me my quote put up or shut up--and shut up is preferred

all WE ASK is to shut up about realtor referrals --and stick to informative information--is that to hard to understand--Ted you contradict yourself so much on that subject

i hope your three web site contacts and your phone is ringing right now, has made you the $2500 a week that my method has, and that is doing only one inspection a day-- if it has great job--if not zip your lip

and your time posting on this forum shows me you have too much time on your hands--go inspect

so please stop the realtor bashing--enough is enough

cvf

Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET

TED

two cents is all you can contribute. you are a character for sure. i have friends in all areas of the inspection world and realtors are included, sorry you speak so lowly of them. they are what makes are business tick. when i ask you to show me my quote put up or shut up--and shut up is preferred

all WE ASK is to shut up about realtor referrals --and stick to informative information--is that to hard to understand--Ted you contradict yourself so much on that subject

i hope your three web site contacts and your phone is ringing right now, has made you the $2500 a week that my method has, and that is doing only one inspection a day-- if it has great job--if not zip your lip

and your time posting on this forum shows me you have too much time on your hands--go inspect

so please stop the realtor bashing--enough is enough

cvf

Charlie, Get off of it. You don't like what I post then ignore it. You want to chumb up with the realtors go for it and that will never change. Yes the Realtors make it tick because you cannot get work anywhere else but they should have no part in the inspection world. You don't like my opinion and you don't want to listen to simple logic, I could really care less. If you cannot find your own damn quote in your own postings then I am surprised you can even be an inspector. I am not digging thru you relentless postings of babble and dribble and incoherent thought. I did not want to be directly insulating but here it is. I am shocked and actually amazed that you are actually an inspector. I have seen your reports and the way you write and your extreme friendship with the realtors should be outlawed. Actually asking several of your Realtor friends about your findings and if it should be included in the report was a devastating reality that became one of my reasons for realtors having no place in the inspection world. Get over it Charlie. Stop with you foolish and ignorant brain dead rants about how many friends you have in the Realtor world. You are hurting this profession and you should be stopped. The absolute last thing on you mind, and it should not even be on your mind, is what a realtor might think, how many direct referrals can i get from Realtors, what should go into a report etc etc etc. If you don't get it and some others don't get it then get over it and move on with how you stumble thru life.

I am plenty busy Charlie. Every time I am posting on here I am doing reports and I am on the computer. Figure that one out fool. And I do little work thru realtors and still make a living at this profession with out begging at the door step and kissing up to realtors to make my daily bread. You will never know what that is like Charlie because apparently you have depended on others all your life for your income. Why work for it when you can get others to hand it to you buttering them up and being so damn friendly. No influence when all your income comes from them ..... my ass.


You making 2500 a week when all your work comes directly thru those realtors should be criminal. You cannot inspect, cannot write and make supposedly 125,000 a year .... okee dokee. Call the police, a crime has been committed. First off Charlie, a little hint. Never disclaim how much you supposedly make in an open forum. It can be used against you.



No come backs Charlie because you will be talking to yourself .... as you are now.

A little clue Charlie. Your Realtor friends. Have you ever heard of a little word by the name of ethics.

There will never be a response Charlie. So crawl back under your rock. I have to go and hit that tiresome send button for my reports for the day. Took way to long with you already. Oh yeah, read all your postings. You have never contributed.

ted

you are a sick person--now you lie about actually seeing one of my reports--do you lie in your reports also--your in texas --i'm in colorado--what is wrong with you--you brag about driving and getting calls from your web site--are you sure it 's not from your mental site--and $2500 a week would equal $130000 a year--get a calculator

you are a mess ted--thats my opinion--sorry i won't see your responce--because you are ignoring me--yeah right--get that report done teddy

cvf

Ted,

Apparently you feel very strongly against taking Realtor referrals. So I have to ask...exactly why do you take them?

A simple direct answer without a personal attack would be appreciated.

Ted Menelly writes

The associations are a unless piece of poop because they do not Market or educate.

WHAT?!!!!

Perhaps you need to visit this and this.

Figure out how to scroll first, you're going to need to.

Robert

I promise to stop my combative and argumentive ways. You have to understand Robert. This is a Forum of questions, answers and opinions. They get expressed by all.

A little quote from you

"No law is going to stop agents from asking for favors or soft reports. Only the individual inspector can decide not to harm his own client by living by a code of ethics. And remember this: No law is going to stop agents from asking for favors or soft reports. Only the individual inspector can decide not to harm his own client by living by a code of ethics. And remember this: For every realty agent that asks for a soft report, there is an inspector who will give it to them. As I said, TRUE CHANGE starts from within.

. As I said, TRUE CHANGE starts from within."

You, Charlie, Ken and others keep stating in one way or another my exact point and continually make my case. What the heck is so damn difficult to understand.

Also Robert. Trust me. You do not have the slightest clue who I am or waht I am ot the type of person I am. What you see and or read is on here and only on here. Ken and Carlie try to play Physcologists as well with their reading of post and drawing conclusions. I can let you rest easy on this Robert. You have not a clue. The most compasionate, caring understanding loving and giving individual you will ever meet is on the other side of this key board.

With out even realising it you make make case continually.

With out the long drawn out *how can I say it one more time to make these same three folks understand this*. Oh wait. You already did. And Ken . Maybe others but not me. And Charlie, I am the best around *Hey Realtor friends . I am putting the call out to see if this will pass or not so I can put it in my report*

This statement somes it up in the absolute as to why Realtors (I absolutely know you and the other guys will get it someday) should not be in the referral business, at all, for the protection of the hundreds of clients a day using those inspectors which you medtion. And yes I will lose the chosen few that want complete protection for their client.

"No law is going to stop agents from asking for favors or soft reports. Only the individual inspector can decide not to harm his own client by living by a code of ethics. And remember this: For every realty agent that asks for a soft report, there is an inspector who will give it to them. As I said, TRUE CHANGE starts from within."

If gthey are banned legally from referring anyone witrh the threat of the loss to their bread and butter

True change starts within?????? Give me a break Robert. With the multitude of in spectors out there that depend on those Realtors for their bread and butter on the table in the tune of , who knows, 50,000. 100,000, 150,000, 200,000. And they are going to change , why?

Thanks again Robert. Mr combative Ted has a quote to add everytime someone makes that ignorant statement "But you might upset the Realtors"

As for Lisa

She makes my point every single damn time she comes on here about marketing and in this case she used one of my statments out of context to market.

There Lisa I highlighted your marketing for you

"WHAT?!!!!

Perhaps you need to visit this and this.

Figure out how to scroll first, you're going to need to.


Market, market, market. Get a new banner Lisa. Those other folks pay good money to stay off the board and market around the perimeter of the posts. Try it, once again, and again, and again.


Have a wonderful day folks. Gotta go to work looking out for a couple more clients, again, and again, and again.

Originally Posted by Ken Rowe

Ted,

Apparently you feel very strongly against taking Realtor referrals. So I have to ask...exactly why do you take them?

A simple direct answer without a personal attack would be appreciated.

Apparently you missed my question Ted.

Originally Posted by Ken Rowe

Apparently you missed my question Ted.

What is it Ken. I know you feel you are an intelligent man so I will try to treat you like one. I have answered your question in multiple and multiple posts over and over and over and over until I get sick of it myself.

I do not solicit, market to, kiss up to, cater to, do anything for, do not befriend etc etc etc etc any Realtors, ever. If they solicit me then they will do it unde my terms. After all it is not "their" inspection. It is not even the clients inspection, until he/she pays for it. The Realtors never "set up" my inspections for me. The Realtors do not call and just set the inspection up for the client. The Realtors only come at the end of the inspection if at all. Around here they practically never come. They never comment about or add too anything I am explaining about my findings when I am going over the report with the client. They may ask questions if they do not understand and want clarity but never utter any words such as "that is grandfathered" or any damn thing like that in the slightest. Or " The sellers never pay for or give allowances to a functioning HVAC system, no matter how old" (while I am explaining my findings with the HVAC system or afterward) at *my inspection* It is not their place at the inspection other than to listen to the findings so they can be helpful to the clients afterward. I never and I repeat never get calls from clients about anything unless you consider one in fifty inspections having a question. They have a thorough understanding of everything I find concerns with. I do not do "Realtor Summaries", ever. Every summary I have ever seen is the report with out the pictures. My clients and their Realtors (you notice I said "their Realtors .... not mine) read the entire report. My clients (you notice I said my clients) filter thru the report and *they pic out what to put into an addendum*. I call CSS and schedule the appointment for the time of the inspection or if the listing agent is scheduling then I call them .... not the buyers Realtor. If I set up a time slot for *my clients* and it contradicts with the Realtors schedule then I suggest they finish up with this client first instead of bag and wrap this client and move on to the next. The Realtors schedule around *my appointments* I do not schedule around theirs unless I have that slot open and I will call the client back first to see if that time is alright with them.

There is actually a whole lot more to that Ken but I am boring myself writing it all and do have to get on with this mornings report. This afternoons changed to a later date due to paper work but thats Ok, I did not want a late day. Now do you understand why it is OK for Ted to get occassional referrals from Realtors. In short, they will give the client my and others info, Once that is done they completely step asside and have no more to do with it until I email the client and the realtior (if my client asks me to) and even after that point I never ever hear fron the Realtor again until the possible next inspection.

Under those conditions is the only way any inspector should get referrals from a Realtor. Absolutely no interference at all could ever be construed by anyone. If a Realtor can live with that then I will accept a referral from them. If not then I suggest kindly that they find another inspector.

Could you even remotely say the same Ken ...... never mind. I already know the answer. Now for the last and final time. Do you get it yet. Was that a blunt, direct and complete answer for you.

Do you understand at all why when you say. "I do a great inspection but I am sure their are others out there that are like that." When Robert says "that for every slippery Realtor there is a slippery inspector". When Charlie talks so "proudly of the extremely close ties and puts out calls to his Realtor friends to get answers to what he has inspected"

I come back and say. "Those are all the reasons that Realtors should have absolutely no business being in the inspection referral business."

I do know that you are an intelligent man. I do know you have a full understanding why I am so strong about the Realtor referral business. The reason a home buyer hires an inspector is to protect them as much as possible by looking out for their interest and they pray that they do not get ......... "one of those other inspectors" You know. The ones you forever mention are out there. The ones Robert is ademant about that are out there. The ones that Chatlie says he is not. Every inspector on this board, whether good bad or indifferent either has been subject to being asked to possibly softening reports or they are softening reports or they no one, two, three or a half dozen 'Other Inspectors" that soften their report so the Realtors make that sale and they ........... can keep getting that 50,000, 100,000, 150,000 or 200,000 thousand a year. It is their bread and butter and 90% or better inspections come directly to them from Realtors and usually not a list but directly.

I beg you Ken. Please tell me you get it. If not I am done trying to explain the whys that I do not solicit Realtors and only take referrals from Realtors that understand the absolute no interference clause and can just about repeat it back to me. Done for the day and night. Have a nice weekend Ken. I gotta hit it tomorrow again but only a half day.

Yahoo, some of you people need a job. How do you find so much free time to just ramble on and on with no end in sight.
I read nothing that I could grab onto except Scott.
Damn boy, anyone who can quote Pogo is a man worth knowing.
That was a possum with wisdom.
There's way too much whining about realtors here. In North Carolina there are less than (and well less than) 1000 HIs. There are well over 10,000 Realtors. Live it. Love it.
JLMathis

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

This came from my phone. Also, when I was reading your post a Realtor called and asked if I did reports on site. I said no, that is not the best interest of my client. Then he asked if I did the Termite as well. I said no, that is not in the best interest of my client. Of course I told him the why's. He still wanted me to do the inspection but it was tomorrow afternoon. I told him I was booked. I asked him where he got my name? From three clients I inspected for in the past 3 months that got their own inspector. Very high regards And he wanted to what it was all about. I said, maybe next time.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

The Realtors never "set up" my inspections for me. The Realtors do not call and just set the inspection up for the client. The Realtors only come at the end of the inspection if at all.

No Ted, I still don't get it. In this thread you contradicted yourself regarding Realtor referrals. In another thread you advised a new inspector on the fine art of Realtor marketing.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

8000 people is not near enough to get any business. You need to advertise much farther out in larger communities as in ten and tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people living in them. Is there building going on around you. If not then the folks there are far less likely to move up in homes and the likelihood of other folks moving into their old homes is pretty slim as well.

Population is key. I can bet that every one of the Realtors around you have been referring other inspectors since they started.

I hate to even say this but you need to order pizzas for the Realtor offices around you and have your info right next to them, repeatedly. Go back and ask them how you could get their business. What you need to do is everything I should do but cannot make myself do .... Market Realtors heavily. It will be the only way you will survive. Everyone of them has to see you as a permanent fixture and a way of life.

So, if marketing Realtors heavily is the only way to survive, and you never market Realtors are you saying you're going out of business soon?

You have never answered my question Ted. To refresh your memory it is:

Apparently you feel very strongly against taking Realtor referrals. So I have to ask...exactly why do you take them?

It's a fairly simple answer. Here, let me help you. " I take Realtor referrals so I can survive in the business." That doesn't make you a bad inspector Ted. Notice I didn't say you gave a soft report to get referrals. I didn't say you catered to Realtors to get referrals.

I think this post proved what is the #1 problem with all of us.
We as inspectors have such big egos that we insist on fighting between ourselves to get a higher spot on the pole.
I have said ofr years at ashi meetings,
" guys, we are all on the same team, we should be working as a team to imprtove all our businesses and achieve a higher standard in our inspecting".
We should not be undersuttiung each other on price but should all stick firm to the standards in our areas.
OH MY GOD they said. We can't do that!!
This site is a great resource for all of us and posts like this with everyone acting like little spoiled girls is depressing.
Cut the crap, do your job, help each other, put on the chap stick occasionally and get out there and kiss a little (BIG) broker a$$
and get on with your life.
We are not the greatest gift to mankind.
We perform a needed service
We are not the smartyest people on earth
We are just GOOD people!!
You have to be a good person to inspect homes for many years.
You can't get rich
But you can help people
And in return you will be helped.
So lets take the panties off and start acting like men

Over the years, bigger companies and franchises have attempted and still are attempting to capture the market and take business away from the sole proprieter. The industry remains a people to people business and as long as you can market via the internet and build relationships with individuals, there's no real threat.

The main threat to me is the unknown regarding future regulation. The potential for future regulation in my state seems far off given the current state of the union. A prior attempt to regulate in my state, (about 3 years ago), was shot down. An inspection school that had a stake in educating inspectors to meet state requirements was one of the parties involved in pushing for licensing.

There has been no public outcry for state licensing and overall, inspectors do a good job of meeting the needs of the parties involved in a real estate transaction. The bar needs to be continuously raised. Inspectors being in the same chapter, if not on the same page, empowers us to a higher degree. Seeing better reports would help. Yesterday, a good Realtor forwarded me a picture of an inspector's foot on a roof stating: "Spongy area right below my foot. Refer to roof for repair." - I asked the agent if the inspector left his shoe on the spot so the roofer could later pinpoint the location. LOL

An inspection school that had a stake in educating inspectors to meet state requirements was one of the parties involved in pushing for licensing.

Nah, ya don't say? The NHIE Beginner's "Shazam!" Exam does that too.

Lisa
Please don't start into that again.
You and your association have to much to offer without slandering another association.
Thank you

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Nah, ya don't say? The NHIE Beginner's "Shazam!" Exam does that too.

So Lisa, when you took the NHIE what part did you find easy and what was the most difficult?

The art of marketing a business has fallen away one direction. That direction never has been a good idea and remains that way today. What hank said is exactly true with one catch. One that is trying to market his business of home inspection to the general public via normal marketing means such things as simple as word of mouth, previous client referrals. the internet or even the dead yellow pages which used to draw an extraordinary amount of work in itself, is combated with the mass marketing directly to Realtors.

Those like myself that get 8 plus percent of his work thru the internet and other direct marketing and word of mouth is constantly combated by Realtor marketing inspectors.

Unlike most I could still make a living and continue to expand with out Realtor marketing but some find that totaly impossible to believe because they never tried it. They never went to the public to get their work. They were taught that the only way to survive and make a living in this business is to go for the Realtors because they control the purse strings (that is quoted from countless schools and leading cont ed teachers etc. With it constantly being put out their that it is the only way it wiil remain that for the large majority.

I was quoted above giving advise to someone is an 8,000 population to go for the Realtor, buy them pizzas etc. absolutely. If he does not he will not make it in the slightest because any inspector in that are they have more than likely canvased that market on a weekly basis and the Realtors and brokers have their extreme good buddies buttering them up on that weekly basis. I am fortunate enough to live in a larger populous where my efforts not need be to market the Realtors. What the nay sayers will never understand is that if the Realtors were banned from referrals such as inspectors are banned from performing work on that which they inspect (huh, why is that) Clients will go to those street sources and inspectors will still have work. Some will fade away and go away because it will just be to togh and they will never make it. There will always be clients for home inspections. This is not the dark ages where the clients do not know the benefit of a home inspection. Everyone on the planet that is going to buy a home knows the benefits of a home inspection no matter what one might be taught by marketers (huh, why do they preach that)

There is absolutely no contradiction to what I preach. I certainly do not wear panties. I do not market Realtors, they solicit me and do so under my guidelines. Usually far less than 20% of my business comes from Realtor referrals no matter what one wishes to convince themselves of. I would lose those Realtors if they were banned from referring any inspector but I would certainly pick up 5 fold from the people going to the streets. There would be no INFLUENCE from Realtors, good, bad, or indifferentr. That is my preaching altogether .... influence. Any influence. Even the inspector bowing his head before meals thanking the big guy for that huge list of Realtors that refer him ......INFLUENCE. Always in the forefront of their mind even if they can resist bad influence it is still so strongly present that it cannot be fully ignored.

I am done guys. You all have at it. If one gets it they get it but still may market Realtors because of the state of affairs as they are now. For those that do the massive client referral and website and other forms of getting to the general public .... keep it up. Maybe, just maybe it will rub off.

Oh, Lisa, I think I just fell in love or had a brain hemorrhage or something (most likely a brain hemorrhage or heart attack). I see that in your last post ....... there was almost absolutely no marketing. Impressive

A little funny edit.

Real men do not put on chap stick and pucker and they don't wear panties. But I am not the " smartyest" person on earth :-)

What's the biggest threat to our industry?

Bad publicity is a threat nobody has mentioned yet.

The only news stories we ever see are when a HI reportedly screws up and misses a major defect. There are thousands of satisfied clients out there, but they are silent. We only hear about the disgruntled ones.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Those like myself that get 8 plus percent of his work thru the internet and other direct marketing and word of mouth is constantly combated by Realtor marketing inspectors.


There is absolutely no contradiction to what I preach. I certainly do not wear panties. I do not market Realtors, they solicit me and do so under my guidelines. Usually far less than 20% of my business comes from Realtor referrals no matter what one wishes to convince themselves of.

So you get 28 percent of your business from internet, direct marketing, word of mouth and realtor referrals. Where does the remaining 72 percent of your work come from? Remember, there is "absolutely no contradiction to what" you preach.

Originally Posted by Ken Rowe

So you get 28 percent of your business from internet, direct marketing, word of mouth and realtor referrals. Where does the remaining 72 percent of your work come from? Remember, there is "absolutely no contradiction to what" you preach.

Stop it Ken. You are becoming a fool. You want to constantly defend yourself about the business you do. Taking thing out of context or miss type or being sent thru a phone and you jump all over it. Like I said Ken you are getting to be a fool. People will be getting POd at me because I try to come back for you out of respect for a fellow inspector but enough is enough. it is time to end the foolishness. Bow your head before dinner being thankful for you daily bread, no matter where it comes from or how you get it. I could give a crap less anymore. You won't listen to reason to others ideas or interests or opinions or anything for that matter but just in defense of your actions. Like I said in my last post. I am done. Have at it anyway you want. Less than 20 percent and half the time far far less than that comes from Realtor referrals. Stop trying to convince anyone about any thing different. He said, she said has gotten way to old. It is time to move on. Do what you do how ever you want to do it. Enjoy life. Live it to the fullest. Asta Ken. Don't come back. Everyone is long board with it. I give up. Also as if yuou did not know but you just want to keep it up for what ever frigging reason is was 80 plus percent and under 20 percent (far under) from Realtors. Which by the way you could obviously never do. Give it up like I just did, it is making me look foolish for answering you just so you can keep it going and going and going and going and going.

TED

-you tell ken to give it up--you have given it up at least ten times in this thread alone--but now your never a realtor referral comes out to 20%

please stop telling inspectors how to make a living--get over it--all areas of the mighty usa are different--do your business on the phone in the car and let us do ours the way we want to.

and again--as you lied about-- you claimed to have viewed my report--tell me where and show me that report--or shut the %^*& up- and--if you did you would see how thourgh i am--and the only ass i kiss is my ladies

so your reply to this will just be another lie--BECAUSE REMEMBER YOU ARE DONE WITH THIS

STOP EATING THE HORSE CHIPS OK

CVF

Scott. The pass rate is too high and the passing cut-off score is too low. Way too low. For an inspector to get licensed based on the passing of only one beginner's exam (NHIE) that permits the newbie to answer almost 1 question wrong for every 2 questions answered correctly, and still pass!!!!, is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Stop it Ken. You are becoming a fool. ... Do what you do how ever you want to do it. Enjoy life. Live it to the fullest....

So, am I supposed to stop it or do what I want? Am I supposed to never take Realtor referrals or am I supposed to buy them pizza? Do you do 8% of your business from internet, direct marketing, word of mouth and realtor referrals or 80%?

Stick to your guns man. Make up your mind about something and keep hammering away. I can respect that. I can't respect flip flopping from one extreme to the next. By the way, I choose to do what I want and enjoy life.

If you choose to refuse to take Realtor referrals that's great for you. I don't even have a problem with you making disparaging remarks about Realtor. I don't even care if you advise new inspectors to never market to Realtors. But when you post things that completely contradict what you've previously said, you will get called out for it. If not by me, by someone else.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

The pass rate is too high and the passing cut-off score is too low. Way too low. For an inspector to get licensed based on the passing of only one beginner's exam (NHIE) that permits the newbie to answer almost 1 question wrong for every 2 questions answered correctly, and still pass!!!!, is ridiculous.

I understand the exam takes the better part of a whole day to write, it is proctored, that is, supervised to prevent cheating, and it is not possible to pass without at least some study and/or prior experience.
As far as a high pass rate goes, that is probably because people are making an expensive commitment and so they are preparing for the exam by studying the material or receiving training before they write.
There is nothing ridiculous about it.

What's the biggest threat to our industry? Underqualified greenhorn inspectors making errors and refusing to make good for their clients. Bad publicity hurts us all.

What's the biggest threat to our industry? Underqualified greenhorn inspectors making errors

Yep. Especially the underqualified greenhorn inspectors who were issued a state license even though they answered nearly one question wrong for every two they answered correctly on the "shazam!" exam (NHIE).

Ted wrote..."The associations are a unless piece of poop because they do not Market or educate".

I agree with this. Except they do educate, but poop non-the-less.
IMO...

Originally Posted by Marc M

Ted wrote..."The associations are a unless piece of poop because they do not Market or educate".

I agree with this. Except they do educate, but poop non-the-less.
IMO...

It was useless not unless. It was also sarcastic. I get emails from all the associations monthly putting it out to inspectors about there Continuing ed classes. TPREIA is one of the better ones for classes from the local associations around here. All market their upcoming classes. Some good and some lame. Again it was a sarcastic statement to one that said they do not market to the inspectors or get the word out.

My Pride in Lisa still keeps going up with all the dropped links for her marketing to the inspectors in the threads. As far as the NHIE? Compared to most of the like it is the best one out there. Scoring is a little low to pass but as John said you have to study for it and or know the trades and cannot walk in off the street and pass it with out prior knowledge thru study or past experience and it is Proctored. Also I believe most state test for the roofing, electric, plumbing, HVAC etc as you go thru the course are proctored as well which means you must study and know the material. Does it mean you are automatically qualified, no. It does mean that those are forced to stick their noses in a book to get all the basic, plus some down. Again you can not sit in front of a computer screen with your books in front of you to pull the magic rabbit out of the hat or a friend telling you the answer is A or B or C or D. You go to a site where someone is monitoring and it is timed

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Scott. The pass rate is too high and the passing cut-off score is too low. Way too low. For an inspector to get licensed based on the passing of only one beginner's exam (NHIE) that permits the newbie to answer almost 1 question wrong for every 2 questions answered correctly, and still pass!!!!, is ridiculous.

Hi Lisa,

I have been off the board for the NHIE for a while, but the last national pass ratio average that I know of was right around 67%. Some states with higher education requirements had a higher percent and the states with the lowest number of hours had a corresponding rate.

Pass ratios actually do tell about the quality of an exam, it can and is an indicator that test developers use. An exam with a low pass rate (under 55%) is most likely a poorly written exam with poorly formatted questions.

As for the scoring, you are mistaken. The questions are the NHIE are weighted. Each questions carries a specific weight or score, this is why the passing score for the NHIE is between 500 to 800.

Anyway, enough of the NHIE we have hijacked this thread long enough.

I guess if there were a threat, like the aliens from "War of the Worlds", and based on all the volleys exhanged, it would be every man for himself in the home inspection profession.

Lisa, why use this thread to knock the NHIE? It is a legitimate proctored exam.

I've heard people say "My inspector was awesome, big help, worth every penny". I've heard people say, "I don't think my inspector knew his ass from page five!" Inspector's who don't know their ass from page five, IMHO, are by far our biggest threat. If we make em happy, nobody's complaining, everybody's making money, they leave us alone.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

What's the biggest threat to our industry?

Bad publicity is a threat nobody has mentioned yet.

The only news stories we ever see are when a HI reportedly screws up and misses a major defect. There are thousands of satisfied clients out there, but they are silent. We only hear about the disgruntled ones.

You can thank Holmes for allot of that! Glad I don't live in Canada because the subject seems to come about on some inspections with clients.

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

You can thank Holmes for allot of that! Glad I don't live in Canada because the subject seems to come about on some inspections with clients.

No doubt..that guy is a JA...

Hi (ALL) &

Don't fear the 'Mighty Mike' (Holmes), as it is clear to me he's slamming the BAD ones - not me...

Now - back to the original question (anyone remember ?) = the only fear is me /myself not keeping up with technology.

Whether it is homes /properties surpassing my knowledge /experience, or other forms of technology leaving me behind...


CHEERS !

Glenn, homes is not a threat to people doing their job right. you can learn from him on somethings and learn when he get's someone else to do his job too. I have yet to see a show where something wasn't right and he wouldn't have learned something if he had not cut open stuff or learned from a new home owner about problems. Hind sight is always 20/20 on that show.

as for tech and it ever evolving, that is life moving forward but it is always building on blocks made in the past. the basics will always be there and need to be learn before moving forward. old timers will alway have value as they have paved the way towards today and tomorrow. and not everything will be new and shiny in the home markets. there will always be a full range of houses that age for the better and worse.

jmho )

I just skimmed this thread, so forgive me if this has already been adequately covered.

Holmes seems to be toning down the "inspector missed it stuff" unless it's a legitimate miss. For that, I am thankful. If he'd mention and explain the Standards, it would be beneficial to us all, Clients and Inspectors alike.

The biggest threat to any profession is, and always has been, politicians and the fallout from their control of something they clearly don't understand (appraisers was cited in an earlier post). It's sickening and expensive.

I like Homes he means well but he is also not perfect. Show I watched last night he claimed you could not run a condensate drain in a tail piece of the sink (not true). There was also a pump but he claimed it could back up and flood the basement. I believe it would overflow the sink before it ever backed up a 3/8 tubing.
What was the fix, cut the concrete floor and run the drain pipe into the floor drain. Then installed laminate flooring on the basement floor. Here you are pumping 5 or more gallons a day into a open drain in a laminate floor........Hmmm no moisture issues here. Why on earth would you put laminate flooring over a basement floor that has a drain, The drain has a purpose and that is to collect any water that might get in the basement. Should of been tile floor.

He also thought the inspector should of caught the drafty enclosed foyer that use to be open. The only reason Holmes new it was drafty is because the owners told him. Also he said the foyer should of had a heat source? It was a small area open to the home and because of the small foot print it may not of been required. Yes it is a good idea but was it code compliant?

It seems just about every show I find things that can be debated on what he claims to not be correct.

So is Mike Holmes and his show the biggest threat to our industry? No way.

It is now clear to me that the biggest threat is future intervention by government, real estate commissions / lobbies & lawyers. Y'all happy with the rules and regs passed down by TREC in TX?

Well this sort of marketing doesn't paint us in a good light.

InterNACHI's $10,000.00 Honor Guarantee. - InterNACHI

I didn't know inspectors are a dishonourable lot!
Nor did I know that there is a theft problem amongst inspectors.

Marketing 101. Not!

Raymond, did the inspector have to actually perform a home inspection on the home in question, or does the guarantee cover any home he may have "visited"?

Joseph,

I would think the house would have to be inspected by the member for the policy to apply.

After reading the responses to the original thread post, it seems as if the initial question has been answered.