Thread: The Profession of Home Inspecting

I just returned from Inspection World last week in Phoenix. Education classes and exibits all first class.
One of the most intertesting sessions was titled "Cost of doing business" by Brian Hannigan and the ad on the left side of this page goes along with Brian's message. We have our heads in the sand with regards to the real cost of doing business and making an actual profit.
We call ourselves professionals,but the professionals I know,lawyers,doctors,small business owners,etc.are the ones with the Mcmansions I have just inspected.I have just risked injury (on the roof) or sickness ( in the crawl space with goggles and mask) to heat stroke (attic),while the buyer has been out on the golf course.
Until we get our heads out of the sand and start charging appropriate fees for the knowledge and expertise we provide,we can never be classed as nothing more than a service provider.
How many of us "Professional Home Inspectors" are living in these million dollar homes??

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It was a great week in Phoenix.

I'm all for charging higher fees Bob. But getting buyers to agree to those higher fees is another matter. A difference of $10.00 from one HI company to another will make up a buyer's mind around here.

Those are lofty ambitions; but, we are the used car salesmen of the real estate business. It seems the worst the housing market gets the more we get the shaft as far as price is concerned. I can remember getting an average $300.00 for an inspection, now it is more like $235.00 and you need to really sell yourself to get that. There are scabs out there advertising a full home inspection for $100.00 go figure. I don't start my car for $100.00 but what is the future? Being a Wally World greeter is not in my future. Too bad to see this profession end up as just a service provider.

Bottom feeders are in every profession.

Brian's presentation is first rate and very well thought out and accurate.....

But, the problem with the profession is it's too easy to get into.... as in, no real education required. I'm amused at every thread where we are compared to doctors, accountants and lawyers. Does no one really see the difference? It's between 6 and 12 years of education at a university.

Want to get paid like a doctor or lawyer? Go to school and get the education..... it's just that simple... or not.

Don't get me wrong... I love this profession and feel we are under paid and under appreciated but it's not like we're going into the debt a couple hundred grand to get licensed.

IMO, comparing us with doctors is ignorant.... sorry.

Well, I am getting some good discussion on this subject!
Mr. Fellman's comment about the degree of formal education we have as compared to doctors,attorneys, engineers is correct, but we did not choose to be in those professions.
We are contractors,handymen, mechanics,technicians etc. and we have the knowledge,experience,training and continuing education to provide a first class,thorough home inspection.
Since a home is generally one's most expensive asset ,the client feels strongly about a competent ,thorough home inspection and would be willing to pay more for that service.We have created the problem of low fees,because we as handy men don't think very much of ourselves, and go around with our heads down, because we don't have that degree.
The client's perception of a home inspection is enormous. Unfortunately,our perception is much less.
Would you hire a Dr.,or lawyer to inspect a house for you? Of course not,they are not educated in that field.

Originally Posted by bobhaley

... we have the knowledge,experience,training and continuing education to provide a first class,thorough home inspection.

Some of us do. The low priced inspectors out there typically don't. Lack of professional licensing and instant certification by some associations certainly don't help.

Being in a subservient role to Agents automatically hurts us demanding the fees that we should.

Rather than marketing to Agents we should find ways to make the actual clients aware of the profession and ways of choosing a professional apart from Broker/Agent recommendations.

Advertising fees on websites is not something Doctors,Lawyers,or even Agents do.

Originally Posted by Matt Fellman

I love this profession and feel we are under paid and under appreciated

The paid and appreciated part can be changed by inspectors who demonstrate that there is a difference among our brethren. This can be done through:

1. Extensive education
2. Professional conduct with the public
3. Wearing appropriate attire
4. Presentable vehicle - inside and out
5. Good writing and spelling skills
6. Being properly equipped to do the job
7. Having a quality report and good verbal communication skills

Of all the many classes that I've attended over the years, having a professional presence is not a topic that is usually taught.

But Mike Holmes Inspection advertises inspection prices so it must be okay.

Mike Holmes Inspections | Quality Home Inspections - Home Inspection Services

I just put my prices up and I advertise same on my site, but my prices are higher than my competitions, but then again I was never a low baller.

Originally Posted by Eric Barker

The paid and appreciated part can be changed by inspectors who demonstrate that there is a difference among our brethren. This can be done through:

1. Extensive education
2. Professional conduct with the public
3. Wearing appropriate attire
4. Presentable vehicle - inside and out
5. Good writing and spelling skills
6. Being properly equipped to do the job
7. Having a quality report and good verbal communication skills

Of all the many classes that I've attended over the years, having a professional presence is not a topic that is usually taught.

Agreed 100%, Eric. I try to do all of the above. I also try to give 100% service on every job, big or small. Spread a sheet over people's stuff and clean up if necessary. Be punctual and respect the property you are inspecting. It is amazing how many referrals come from simply being diligent for a few hours a day.

Here's what Mike Holmes had to say in a recent interview:

Bunzel: Is there such a thing as a perfect home inspection?

Holmes: Absolutely. Most aren't done correctly. Most inspectors don't have the knowledge to do good inspections. The number one step is better education. Two is having the proper background. We need to upgrade the industry. Home inspections should be more thorough and cost more. Most inspectors don't charge enough for their work. I think home buyers should recruit an inspector before they start looking. Take the Realtor out of the loop. Re-evaluate how it is done. Buyers buy on impulse. Consumer education is key. Charge the right amount of money. The fees for a home inspection should start at $1,000.00. Inspectors should have tools to look into walls and pipes. On most inspections I do, I use my IR camera and snake camera. When inspectors see renovations they should be checking with the building departments to see if permits were pulled and approved.


As for the "professional" moniker, while the degree may not be there, the liability certainly is.

As a point of interest - Holmes Inspection sub contracts the inspections out. Holmes takes up to half the inspection fee.

These same inspectors are also free to continue running their own companies, and when they do inspections under their company name they are not charging the "Holmes" fee, so really he's not being entirely truthful about his pricing, he is trading on his name and taking a cut.

Cheers,

My father is a retired Neurosurgeon...I, as a property inspector, am no Neurosurgeon. I've never had my fathers risk (as my insurance in not up to the $100,000 annual premium his was...as a doctor rated top 5 in Southern California), I didn't go to post-grad for 12 years, don't have to diagnose or fix anything and then follow up. I don't have to take 3-day board exams where every answer I provide is scrutinized by a veteran panel of specialists. I don't have to prepare for a big surgery by spending hours reviewing all the patients records the prior day, I don't work in millimeters where a small error could mean the patient becomes incontinent or can't swallow and I don't have to tell folks that although I did my best, the results weren't what I had hoped and they will have to adjust to a new reality. Comparing us to doctors is PREPOSTEROUS and to lawyers is...well, that may be an insult.

As for pricing and factoring the cost of business...that's different for every one and one would hope that the cost of business would be the first thing you'd have figured out.

There's always low quality/low price operators and very high quality/high price operators. I know the one thing I see consistent with high price inspectors is the quality of their report. Many reports I see look and read just terrible and would never meet what the top inspectors I know produce. Many of the most popular reports have goofy graphic layouts, counter-intuitive organization, lack in specifics and so fail to demonstrate a detail oriented inspector, are poorly worded, contain poor photography, feature gimmicks like 'tips' on maintenance, or how to understand a home (do doctors give patients material that explains the endocrine, circulation, respiratory, nervous, digestive, reproduction, lymphatic, skeletal, muscular, etc. systems?), state the inspection limitations and boilerplate legal over and over. Many reports site only a handful of unique defects and many common defects--the top inspectors report also site dozens and dozens of common defects along with many unique defects that no macro would cover and have to be written by the inspector. The top inspectors get into the tightest crawl space and attic, on the toughest roof and seem to possess endless curiosity. They know a lot and have reference material to back it up. The report is delivered some time that day. They have great people skills, are engaging and develop a cult of personality. They are fit...like athletes (which many are) and move with determination. If one is over-weight, dresses poorly, writes a lean report, has bad breath, a dirty car/truck (or worse--an old dirty car/truck), etc, etc., then a thermal camera, moisture meter or deep knowledge base isn't going to help...You must be the whole package or you are not going to get where you want to go. Generating business is easiest if your outstanding work is networked among clients, neighbors, family, friends, agents, pest control operators, community clubs, your children's schools, multi-unit property owners, the morning crowd at coffee, etc. where you don't push yourself...your professionalism says if for you.
I could go on for a few pages...

You forgot those inspectors who make false promises or over the top advertising statements.

For instance I notice P2P repeatedly states that they inspect 1600 items at every inspection. Ya right.

A professional home evaluation of more than 1,600 items inside and outside the home is the core of the Pillar To Post home inspection. Our inspectors conduct a visual inspection of accessible systems and components of the home including:

You cannot compare to doctors, lawyers, etc. You just cannot. My emphasis is to educate the buyer as to the condition of the property. This could save them money in the long and short run. ie, HVAC needs replacing, pipes leaking, flashing problems, etc. The same for the seller as it lets them know about problems that they can fix before putting the house on the market which could cost a sale.

You typically will not see an inspector in a mcmansion but you will see a real estate agent in one. But at the end of the day, who really has the most risk? As for how much to charge? Well that will be debated forever.

Raymond,
Every time they look at anything it is considered inspected. Including the neighbors daughter. A little disingenuous maybe. Have you made a list of everything that you look at even in passing. example: Bedroom = 4 walls+1 ceiling+ 1floor+ x outlets+ y switches+ z lighting fixtures+ windows + doors + __ + ___ + ___ + ?????...

No I have not made a list, but then again I am not a P2P inspector and don't need to embellish through hyperbole.

Bob is in my local chapter and I honestly must say that I'm really not bothered that much with the bottom feeders. I just quote my fee which I have found is in the higher middle of the pack and I go on with life.

I have noticed that folks are not asking about the price in their first sentence as they have been doing over the past couple of years. Maybe this is also due to fact that we have lost about 70% of the licensed inspectors that we had in 2009! Last count we had 411 home inspectors in TN! Jan 1, 2009 we had 1140!

Scott, that is pretty interesting. Do you think that there are unlicensed people doing home inspections in your state? Do you think that the state licensing requirement helps the professional inspector by decreasing incompetent competition? That is quite a drop in licensed inspectors.

Originally Posted by Randy Aldering

Scott, that is pretty interesting. Do you think that there are unlicensed people doing home inspections in your state? Do you think that the state licensing requirement helps the professional inspector by decreasing incompetent competition? That is quite a drop in licensed inspectors.

No, I feel we have very few if any real estate sales that have a home inspections using an unlicensed inspector. Does it happen? I'm sure it has but it is not enough that it is known about. The real estate agents would be in violation of their license law and they check to make sure the inspectors have a license. Whenever I work with an agent for the first time they always ask if I'm licensed and some ask to see my license or for my license number.

I'm sure the license requirement helps to weed out those fly-by-nighters, licensing does make a difference. I have worked under a HI license since 2001 in two states.

Originally Posted by bobhaley

Well, I am getting some good discussion on this subject!
We have created the problem of low fees,because we as handy men don't think very much of ourselves, and go around with our heads down, because we don't have that degree.

I never went into this profession thinking of myself as a handy man. I learned all I could and called myself a professional. I think low price has more to do with how many people come into the profession and how easy it is to get in. Most new inspectors start by looking at the competitions prices and then they develop a price point below that. Then everyone who loses a few inspections starts doing them down to the lower price. No one ever (except Holmes) has come into the business by being the highest price around. But that's what you should be selling. Your quality education, your quality report, your attention to detail, your curiosity, your ability to detect latent problems and your determination to look anywhere in the house you can fit, etc. The fact that you also produce a report that does not require "further evaluation by an expert" because you are the expert. Now you have something to sell and you can tell people why you charge more. You can tell them you are just as good as Holmes and you dress better. (I hope)

I think the problem comes down to marketing yourself. It's sort a Catch 22.
It takes cash to market. The cash is thin because you end up trying to be somewhat in line with the competition knowing that without a proper opportunity to market yourself, you lose jobs based on a combination of price and the undue influence of the agent. Most buyers come from elsewhere and they inevitably tell the agent to set them up with the various professions. The average agent has no incentive to refer the best inspector. Not a dig, just reality. They need to fast track to a closing, not negotiate a ton of repairs.
Holmes is dead on. Whether or not he's legit or fudging is beside the point. We should have the equipment. We should get paid well. Our liability is significant.
When I was in remodelling, I took a class from the HomeTech group on the cost of doing business. It was a seminal point in my professional career and if anyone has not stopped to get that education, then they just poke and hope.
Having said all that, if I can get $300.00 for a 2500 ft house, I'm in high cotton. Reality.

JLMathis

Interesting comments by Holmes........naive.........but interesting. We aren't a union that sets a uniform price. We are all independent contractors vying for a piece of the same pie. There will always be some inspector, sometimes a good inspector, who will decide that getting paid less for a slice of the pie beats getting nothing. Bills don't go away when you stand on some principle and hold tough on your pricing.

Several years ago, in the same week, I had one potential customer ask me why I was so expensive and another ask me why I was so cheap. Oddly, I ended up getting both inspections for my standard price.

Recently, a Realtor told me that he has a 2 for 1 offer. Buy or sell a house with him, and he will do the next transaction with the client for free. Competition is everywhere in this biz. I am regularly "underbid". Yesterday, I had a potential customer tell me that she had found an inspector willing to inspect her condo for $150. I haven't done a condo inspection for $150 in many years. She said that she has been told that I'm the best, but she "can't" pay more than that. Normally, I say "Have a nice day" and goodbye.

GRRRRRR........turns out I have to go into town on Tuesday for a meeting and I should be able to do her little condo in an hour or so. Heck.....her $150 more than pays for a trip into town that I have to do anyway, so I say "Ok".

Right or wrong, who among us don't make those kind of rationalizations from time to time.

Originally Posted by Lon Henderson

Interesting comments by Holmes........naive.........but interesting. We aren't a union that sets a uniform price. We are all independent contractors vying for a piece of the same pie. There will always be some inspector, sometimes a good inspector, who will decide that getting paid less for a slice of the pie beats getting nothing. Bills don't go away when you stand on some principle and hold tough on your pricing.

Several years ago, in the same week, I had one potential customer ask me why I was so expensive and another ask me why I was so cheap. Oddly, I ended up getting both inspections for my standard price.

Recently, a Realtor told me that he has a 2 for 1 offer. Buy or sell a house with him, and he will do the next transaction with the client for free. Competition is everywhere in this biz. I am regularly "underbid". Yesterday, I had a potential customer tell me that she had found an inspector willing to inspect her condo for $150. I haven't done a condo inspection for $150 in many years. She said that she has been told that I'm the best, but she "can't" pay more than that. Normally, I say "Have a nice day" and goodbye.

GRRRRRR........turns out I have to go into town on Tuesday for a meeting and I should be able to do her little condo in an hour or so. Heck.....her $150 more than pays for a trip into town that I have to do anyway, so I say "Ok".

Right or wrong, who among us don't make those kind of rationalizations from time to time.

So, if they don't close on this one will they be so bold as to ask for the next one for free? What are the chances they refer you to someone else? In my personal experience, the cheapskates rarely do. If they did, they would tell them that they only paid $150. Who are the first clients to call you back when they perceive there is a problem?

Is the trend in Colorado going to continue since the election? More folks getting in the wagon instead of pulling? Then, you might expect to be asked to subsidize more of your inspections. After all, you are an evil business owner.

Going back to Hannigan's Cost of Doing Business which I saw him demo, so your inspection should take only an hour or so, but what is the true cost to you of each inspection? Does the time include the time in the report? Anyway, in my case, I don't crank up the truck for that kind of fee. If they don't see the importance and value of the service, then they can find someone else.

I have never seen it any more well put than this;

"A business with illogically high liability, slim profit margins and limited economies of scale. An incredibly diverse, multi-disciplined consulting service, delivered under difficult in-field circumstances, before a hostile audience in an impossibly short time frame, requiring the production of an extraordinarily detailed technical report, almost instantly, without benefit of research facilities or resources." - Alan Carson

hank
what does the trend in colorado mean

thanks

cvf

Sheesh Hank, you sound like you're a little angry or maybe this is a pet peeve for you.

Still, you have a good point about discounting. Do it for someone and you are likely to hear someone else request the same discount.
I could say that I admire your purity. 99.9% of my inspections are done for full price. For some reason, I had a rash of requests for discounts last week. Four callers tried to negotiate my price down. Only the one that I mentioned was successful for the reasons that I explained.

Once upon a time I was an absolutist like you. Two divorces later, I finally learned the value of compromise. IMO, there are times, situations, and extenuating circumstances that make compromise an acceptable option. If keeping your price is a core value for you, then stick to it. My prices are not a core value for me. Over fifteen years, I have more than doubled my price and I bet I change it again.

And I have done this long enough that I have a complete understanding of my cost of doing business. I can assure you that I am deep in the green on this inspection. I like this biz, but I don't do it for fun.

Hi Lon,

Yeah, I am peeved about the election. But here, I was chiming in about inspectors who over-compromise, IMO.

Hey, I don't need to be labeled as an absolutist. I've been with my wife for 26 years and I'm in my mid-40's. We are doing a remodeling project right now, and you can bet your rear end that there's significant amounts of compromise in play.

If someone's only got $150 to spend to ensure their biggest investment, then they can't afford the house.

Around the time of my post I had one agent who wanted me to give a free re-inspection because the gas was off in the home. It was over 100 miles roundtrip. After all, I owe them a favor for past referrals. To top it off, the client was a "good Baptist". I was hit up for discounts three times last week although I had to crawl through $hit for them.

Originally Posted by Hank Spinnler

Hi Lon,

If someone's only got $150 to spend to ensure their biggest investment, then they can't afford the house.

Around the time of my post I had one agent who wanted me to give a free re-inspection because the gas was off in the home. It was over 100 miles roundtrip. After all, I owe them a favor for past referrals. To top it off, the client was a "good Baptist". I was hit up for discounts three times last week although I had to crawl through $hit for them.

You are probably correct about their ability to buy the place, but that isn't my concern. Still, it's kinda sad how many times that I learn that a client failed to qualify for their loan after we did the inspection.

I have gotten the requests for a "free" revisit too. I usually state what a revisit charge will cost at the time of the original inspection which helps a lot if it comes up later. But, when I agree to do a free revisit, I tell them that it has to be on my schedule and when I am in the area. If that doesn't work for them, then they have to pay my revisit charge.
When I explain that breakeven inspections don't get my bills paid, they usually try to work with me.

My pet peeve is agents who are making thousands on a transaction and want me to trim $50 from my inspection fee.

Lost one yesterday over $30 bucks. Told the woman "We're not all the same" and said "good luck to you".... The one I did do yesterday was a previous client from almost a year ago and they asked if there was a "repeat customer discount". I told them to look at all the money they saved by not buying the first place - I told them to run from it....During yesterday's inspection, the Buyers and the Agent both said I have a few more family member inspections coming my way.... I'm with Hank, no discounts - there is a reason you called me back to do another inspection - price negotiation isn't one of them !

"This Is the discount price. It is $100 less than what I want to charge."

I will allow an occasional discount, such as for the repeat client who pulls out cash. Also a couple who needed a break and didn't ask for one on their second inspection. What am I saying here? I'm a pushover. But only when I choose to be.

Home inspectors are a mixed bag. Some are qualified to produce engineering reports. Some are posers. Until we establish a minimal threshold for qualifications, the pricing will be what it is.

I agree with you John...but how are we to know the difference between the two. Licensing doesn't seem to be the answer...So other than being the best 'me' in town how do I get those weekend inspectors away from my potential clients...I dont have unlimited marketing funds to post my smiling face all over town... not hat I want that either

Originally Posted by John Kogel

"

Home inspectors are a mixed bag. Some are qualified to produce engineering reports. Some are posers. Until we establish a minimal threshold for qualifications, the pricing will be what it is.

Minimal thresholds are not the answer. We have supposed thoroughly tested by exam and peer review who are screwing up.

Ditto those with licences.

Those that feel licencing will improve the inspection, inspectors abilities or improve client satisfaction are deluded.

What needs improvement are the bodies which oversee inspectors be they associations, and/or private entities.

This discussion has taken an interesting turn into a subject that we are confronting in Colorado. In fact, we are having the first meeting today about an effort being mounted by a politically ambitious Realtor to create licensing for home inspectors in Colorado.

We have a different thread going on about this.
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...-new-post.html

Be thankful your state did not turn to someone like Mike Holmes for advice on how to regulate home inspections.

Mike as you may or may not know is not qualified by any association to be an expert on home inspections let alone certified by any association to practice home inspections.

I feel the same about Realtors being called upon for their input on licencing home inspectors.

I hold a license issued by the state real estate commission that says I am a Professional Inspector. I earned this through experience, education and passing several written tests some of which are very stringent.

But professionalism to me is more of a character trait than a title.

I've met some very unprofessional doctors and lawyers, and I've met some very professional plumbers, carpenters and electricians.

I work hard and pay a lot of attention to the details of customer service. I leave no doubt in the minds of most everyone I work with/for as to the level of professionalism I possess and provide. And I charge accordingly.

But this is a choice, and not every HI does it.

So if someone wants to make comparisons I hope they liken me to my HVAC service provider rather than the last Dr. I went too. Because my A/C guy is 10 times more professional.

Originally Posted by Hank Spinnler

Hi Lon,

Yeah, I am peeved about the election. But here, I was chiming in about inspectors who over-compromise, IMO.

Hey, I don't need to be labeled as an absolutist. I've been with my wife for 26 years and I'm in my mid-40's. We are doing a remodeling project right now, and you can bet your rear end that there's significant amounts of compromise in play.

If someone's only got $150 to spend to ensure their biggest investment, then they can't afford the house.

Around the time of my post I had one agent who wanted me to give a free re-inspection because the gas was off in the home. It was over 100 miles roundtrip. After all, I owe them a favor for past referrals. To top it off, the client was a "good Baptist". I was hit up for discounts three times last week although I had to crawl through $hit for them.

Not you Hank

You actually put forth for a Realtor that told you that you owe them a favor for referrals.

Also, living in the South for the past 22 years or so..... Is there such a thing as a good Baptist? Just kidding but seriously, who cares if they are a good Baptist?

100 mile round trip would have absolutely never had happened on my end for anyone for free. Around the corner? I have on a couple of occasions. They were a 2 minute drive down the road and a quick in and out look at one item and back home a few minutes later. No report.

Being beholding or at least the Realtor felling as though you should be beholding for referrals???? You are doing her/him a fantastic favor for doing a fantastic job inspecting and absolutely nothing else.

Sorry. I seriously would have politely said pound sand even if it meant 20 inspections for the year.

That is why they should not be involved i the home inspection business. Way to much power.