Thread: Another Inspector Out Of Business

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

That was wally world. I asked. about the 4 d.ollars. It did not exist. For one of the most popular antibiotics around.

Which antibiotic was it?

At the pharmacy, a course of penicillin is $5.56 paid by insurance, $1.00 copay to me. If I wanted to pay out of pocket? $38.12

Insurance companies are able to negotiate the price down. You, as a single consumer? Not so much. You can tell them you want to pay the insurance rate - in fact I'd recommend it. There's nothing that says you have to pay the ridiculous 1000% markup on the drug. Sometimes it works to haggle, sometimes it doesn't.

Now strangely enough in the Medicare Part D legislation, the HHS was forbidden from negotiating drug prices with pharmaceutical companies. The one cost control they could possibly have added to the legislation, and the Republicans in Congress wouldn't allow it (check the votes on the proposed amendment if you don't remember).

The same is true of Obamacare. Republicans and "Blue Dog" Democrats thwarted nearly every attempt to introduce cost controls, because they conflicted with the special interest money they'd received. I point this out not to say that Democrats are somehow better or more noble, but only that on this particular issue of reducing health care costs to consumers, the Republicans were the ones who were more interested in protecting profits for insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and other providers. This should surprise no one.

This whole thing about everybody must pay for insurance to keep insurance cost down. Absolutely absurd that will never happen insurance rate so are we just continue to climb. As far as those folks that don't pay for insurance guess what we're already paying for it now we're paying for infull all the time 24 47. The eye dear that does it didn't pay work driving a car sup bro it was already there. The eye dear that is acceptable to say insurance companies negotiate price. Absolute bull. The doctors and hospitals just continues to charge more because of person is they are getting paid is less every year. Insurance is the absolute number one factor why medical costs continue to rise
That and taking care of. Investors

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

The doctors and hospitals just continues to charge more because of person is they are getting paid is less every year. Insurance is the absolute number one factor why medical costs continue to rise
That and taking care of. Investors

I do not think anyone can argue with this, but then I'm sure some will attempt!

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

I do not think anyone can argue with this, but then I'm sure some will attempt!

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

The doctors and hospitals just continues to charge more because of person is they are getting paid is less every year.

You're right !

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

I do not think anyone can argue with this, but then I'm sure some will attempt!

I'll make a go of it.

Except I agree, sorta. The current structure of insurance is the problem, not the existence of insurance in general. The way we arrived at our current system of employer-provided health insurance was mostly by accident. No one planned on tying your health and well-being to your being gainfully employed, but that's how it happened here. As it turns out, this is a terrible way to go.

As for costs, it's a combination of employer-provided insurance and the tax code. Currently health insurance premiums are tax-deductible. That means as an employer, I can provide my employees with a "Cadillac" health insurance plan and it's treated as non-taxable compensation. I can offer tax-free "café" plans that will even cover your deductibles that would otherwise come out of pocket (although there's an element of risk here, as café plans are use-it-or-lose-it).

All of this puts the consumer at some remove from the services they're consuming. I don't know how much an MRI costs, so if my doctor says it's an option I say "do it" rather than "How much will it cost me? Maybe the CAT is just as good and $1000 cheaper."

I see two solutions to this problem.
1) Make everyone pay out of pocket.
This would be absolutely horrid, as it means your ability to be healthy will be solely a function of luck. Either you're born rich, or were lucky enough to have been presented the right opportunities. Everyone else can die in the gutter.

2) Single-payer
With the Government as the sole insurer, our health is no longer tied to our employment. With the power to negotiate prices, and determine which therapies are effective, a Medicare-for-all type system is by far the most likely to bring down costs. And medicare is very lean; look at the overhead for Medicare compared to private insurance programs. And while we hear the occasional story of fraud, Medicare actually has one of the lowest fraud rates.

One other thing not to forget. In today's securitized age, insurance companies are now financial services companies. They use your premiums to gamble in the stock market rather than provide better service or value. That's not how Medicare operates - a single-payer system is exactly the type of insurance we need.

But that still doesn't deal with the consumer's remove from seeing the cost of services. I think we can better handle that with a sliding-scale of co-payments. By tying co-payments to income (or better yet, an assets test but that's a pipe dream) you can make it cost just enough to make patients think twice before requesting unnecessary services or procedures.

Tim Hawkins says it better than I can: Tim Hawkins - The Government Can - YouTube

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

FREE HEALTHCARE is NOT FREE. Someone Must Pay The Tab.

Yep, just like buy one get one free ... someone pays, but it is still called "buy one, get one free".

OF COURSE someone has to pay for ... WE ALL pay for it, at less than, or about the same as, we pay now, only more people are "paying for it" so the cost each is reduced.

Jeez, Billy, you drive on the ROAD FREE, and probably do so every day, do you complain about that too? SOMEONE HAS TO PAY for it, and it is not all covered by the cost of the license plate fees (TAX) we pay.

You drive on the roads for FREE.

You walk on the sidewalks for FREE.

You stroll through the park, or play ball with the kids in the park for FREE.

You ... (the list is almost endless) ... so why not have healthcare available for FREE?

Yeppers, somebody got to pay for all those freebies, by I don't hear you a bitchin' about those other FREE things.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

You drive on the roads for FREE.

You walk on the sidewalks for FREE.

You stroll through the park, or play ball with the kids in the park for FREE.

You ... (the list is almost endless) ... so why not have healthcare available for FREE?

Yeppers, somebody got to pay for all those freebies, by I don't hear you a bitchin' about those other FREE things.

Healthcare isn't free like those other things because we have to pay taxes for healthcare. Oh, wait...

everybodies health care is already paid for by someone else.

Every good, service etc one buys that is asspciated with a particular company is paying for their health care.

As far as all those unisured driving health care costs up??????????

Think again. Someone already paid for your now you were and even mre so now paying for theirs.

Is there really any differnence. And this is coming from a man that will also tell you that things have already gone way to far to pay for all the promises made.

That is another whole story.

As far as the old folks. We have to pay for them if they cannot afford it themselves........and a whole lot more periods. If they can afford it themselves then they are going to have to just suck it up and admit to themselves that all that money they paid in was already for someone else. It was never for you and me when we paid.

If you can afford then pay for it dam it. If you truly cannot then everyone else will have to. There is no simpler and direct thought about it.

Health care costs are way to high and they will never do anything but go up, period. Get rid of the insurance plans now as we know it and all those true geniuses out there figure out a real sustainable plan and we need to go for it.
Insurance costs are way too high for the medical profession but in the same thought the medical profession thinks way to highly of themselves just like most professionals out there.

No matter which side of the fence one sits on we can no longer think that we must make more every year. We must pay more for the goods and services every year. We must make more every year to pay for our goods and services every year. We must make more to pay for our goods and services that keep rising every year because we keep making more every year.

It wont work much longer.

Socialism as all think of it wont work either. Everyone on the bottom wants to make more and everyone on the top believes they are worth more than those on the bottom.

These cycles will and do detroy countries.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Yep, just like buy one get one free ... someone pays, but it is still called "buy one, get one free".

OF COURSE someone has to pay for ... WE ALL pay for it, at less than, or about the same as, we pay now, only more people are "paying for it" so the cost each is reduced.

Jeez, Billy, you drive on the ROAD FREE, and probably do so every day, do you complain about that too? SOMEONE HAS TO PAY for it, and it is not all covered by the cost of the license plate fees (TAX) we pay.

You drive on the roads for FREE.

Gas Tax, Wheel Tax, Tolls .

You walk on the sidewalks for FREE.

You stroll through the park, or play ball with the kids in the park for FREE.


You ... (the list is almost endless) ... so why not have healthcare available for FREE?

Yeppers, somebody got to pay for all those freebies, by I don't hear you a bitchin' about those other FREE things.

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Yeppers The List is Almost Endless!
Property Tax, City, County, State, Income Tax, Sale Tax, Usage Tax and USC : Title 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE | LII / Legal Information Institute
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What Planet Do You Live On?

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Property Tax, City, County, State, Income Tax, Sale Tax, Usage Tax and USC : Title 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE | LII / Legal Information Institute
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What Planet Do You Live On?

Gotcha!

Precisely my point.

Thus, there is NO REASON that this great country of ours cannot also provide FREE HEALTHCARE (just like those other things are provided for FREE, yeah, I know, someone pays for it, but, like I said, I don't hear you bitchin' about those other things).

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Gotcha!

Precisely my point.

Thus, there is NO REASON that this great country of ours cannot also provide FREE HEALTHCARE (just like those other things are provided for FREE, yeah, I know, someone pays for it, but, like I said, I don't hear you bitchin' about those other things).

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Spoken Like a True Government Employee FREE MONEY !!!

If Taxes are Free I'll send ya some of mine. Thank You.
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You Haven't Been Listening.
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I am devouring and trying to learn from DrRich's theory: A Theory of Progressive Thought, Progressivism and Obamacare

An excerpt:

"By slowly re-interpreting the Constitution, and slowly addicting a critical mass of Americans to an array of government programs, Progressives are certain they will ultimately prevail. They have been at it for over 100 years, and have come a long way. DrRich cannot tell whether or not we have already passed the Event Horizon, the point beyond which restoring the Great American Experiment will become impossible. But we are at least very close."

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

(just like those other things are provided for FREE, yeah, I know, someone pays for it, but, like I said, I don't hear you bitchin' about those other things).

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

You Haven't Been Listening.

You haven't been reading what has been written.

Since NOTHING is free, perhaps instead of calling it "free healthcare", we should call it "healthcare that someone else is paying for".

I don't have a problem helping those that are simply unable to make it without a little help, but I do have a problem with people that are playing the system.

We talk about free healthcare as if it is the only entitlement that exists... as if everything else is hunky dory, and all that is being asked for is health coverage. If that were so, it would be easy. It is the whole system that stinks.

If someone is employed and just needs a little help, well so be it. This past week I was in landlord tenant court with a tenant that simply does not want to pay ANY rent... zilch. She also wants free health care, food stamps, free utilities, etc.

They say G-D helps those that help themselves. If that is so (or reasonable), why should society care more about her than she cares about herself. Or maybe she cares about herself but is just too lazy to work... at all. Why should she be entitled to anything? Why shouldn't she be on the street? Maybe if she knew she was going to be on the street, she would get off her ass.

I think that if someone is unable to find a job and wants someone else to pay their way, they should have to enter some type of job training program. Even if it is not a glamorous job, everyone should have to carry at least some of their own weight.

I know of those that are milking unemployment, stating they cannot find a job within their field, or within the pay scale they desire. well maybe they should change fields. (they could become Home Inspectors). Or maybe they should work for less pay, so at least they would need less assistance.

Many out of work people on Unemployment collect checks and have jobs off the books at the same time.

Ever think about that those in Congress, the President and the Supreme Court (our three branches) make the laws for all but them selves. They have no concern for the cost of insurance since they do not pay for it, we pay it for them. As their expenses rise they just raise the revenue source (taxes). Though they seem to be able not to conform to the same tax laws that we all fear. Even though they write the law.

We pay for the First Lady to vacation with her friends in Spain and in the Vineyards and she is sure that she is entitled to it. Why? Its FREE and she is ENTITLED because of hubbies job.

When the House was controlled by the Dem party they had the ability to do as they wished with any restraint. Then oddly enough on the nest election they lost control because the people did not like what they were doing. Yet, no mater what, it is always someone other than themselves fault. The house changed as a direct result of the passing of The Health Care Act. Now its the evil ones that are attempting to reverse what has been done and its still Bush's fault. How about taking responsibility for raming through a law that the majority do not want. How about making the legislators responsible for their actions. Dem controlled committees created the ability for lenders to go hog wild in their lending practices and creation of the derivative markets. But it is Bush's fault.

A trip to the doctor that is billed out at $300 and the patient only had 15 mins with the doctor is excessive in the same way that a home inspection billed at $100 to $150+ per hour is not excessive. If the doctor is wrong he is sued for millions. If an inspector is wrong he is sued for a few thousand. Not to mention the general overhead of operating a medical practice. The doc is getting rich and the inspector is poor as dirt.

Just received a billing statement for my wife from the insurance company. Dock billed $369 and Insurance reduced it to $126 plus a $35 co-pay. Doc made $156 for 30 min evaluation and consultation. Which demonstrates that there is a problem with the system. But it is the system which creates the problem. If the Doc did not bill for $369 then the rates that the Insurance Co use to discount from normal billing would not be there and the Insurance company could not demonstrate how they are saving the insured money with the policy. Medicare and Medicaid work much in the same manor. Ted if you wanted to dicker the bill down you could have. You could have asked what the cost was before you had the service. But for some reason people do not ask the costs before service at the doctor, though they demand it for almost every other service they receive.

No business is created by an individual it is built on the backs of the worker. Sound a little socialistic? The excesses of the few are deserved by the many no mater what their contribution was.

Here is an Idea. Members of the three branches receive $30K / yr and med benefits and nothing else. 2 term limit. If they break the lay they go to jail with mandatory sentences. Restore the concept of service to the government and the people. A apposed to being in the goverment and being serviced by the people.

The Health Care issue is the beginning of the new order. Long live the King....

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

You haven't been reading what has been written.

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You be writing and I be reading. You keep saying FREE but "someone" is paying.

Just Who are these someones?
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Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Since NOTHING is free, perhaps instead of calling it "free healthcare", we should call it "healthcare that someone else is paying for".

Actually, that is why it is called the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act".

*I* am paying for others to drive on the roads, and, at the same time, *they* are paying for me to drive on the roads.

It works that way all the way up and down all things provided or required by the government, whether that be the local yokels, the county mounties, the state or the feds.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

You be writing and I be reading. You keep saying FREE but "someone" is paying.

By your own admission, and your post above, you have shown that you have 'not' been reading, or, maybe you were reading and just not comprehending? (I prefer to think you were just not reading as I am sure you are smart enough to comprehend it - unlike Ken Rowe in that other post and exchange about his reading and comprehension skills, or lack thereof.)

I will make it bold and red for you to make it easier to read, how about blue instead of red:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

(just like those other things are provided for FREE, yeah, I know, someone pays for it, but, like I said, I don't hear you bitchin' about those other things).

*I've* been writing it ... *you* haven't been reading it.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Actually, that is why it is called the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act".

I have and will always refer to this unilateral edict as "Obamacare"

Originally Posted by Hank Spinnler

I have and will always refer to this unilateral edict as "Obamacare"

Even though Romney created it in and for his state when he was governor?

I would think that Republicans, who are backing Romney, would want to take credit for this vast improvement over what the country had before Romneycare took effect.

Gosh, this has been fun, but I dislike political arguments as the best thing for the country is to work together and not fight each other.

That said, one party is currently trying to force their religion and their like on the rest of the country (the Republicans) while the other party is currently trying to be inclusive and promote tolerance for all (the Democrats).

The Republicans went to war to try to stop Iraq from becoming a religious state (because the religious state was not to their liking), yet they want this country to become a religious state (as long as all believe as they believe).

Oh well, I will wait to see the outcries the above causes, but I will wait awhile and stay out of the fray and just not check this thread for a while so I can get a bigger picture of who says what ...

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

By your own admission, and your post above, you have shown that you have 'not' been reading, or, maybe you were reading and just not comprehending? (I prefer to think you were just not reading as I am sure you are smart enough to comprehend it - unlike Ken Rowe in that other post and exchange about his reading and comprehension skills, or lack thereof.)

I will make it bold and red for you to make it easier to read, how about blue instead of red:


*I've* been writing it ... *you* haven't been reading it.

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Please Get a Clue.
The Highway System was built for National Defense to facilitate the movement of the Nations Military needs. Not for Truckers ,not so the public could go see Grandma or to the beach.
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Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Even though Romney created it in and for his state when he was governor?

I would think that Republicans, who are backing Romney, would want to take credit for this vast improvement over what the country had before Romneycare took effect.

Gosh, this has been fun, but I dislike political arguments as the best thing for the country is to work together and not fight each other.

That said, one party is currently trying to force their religion and their like on the rest of the country (the Republicans) while the other party is currently trying to be inclusive and promote tolerance for all (the Democrats).

The Republicans went to war to try to stop Iraq from becoming a religious state (because the religious state was not to their liking), yet they want this country to become a religious state (as long as all believe as they believe).

Oh well, I will wait to see the outcries the above causes, but I will wait awhile and stay out of the fray and just not check this thread for a while so I can get a bigger picture of who says what ...

Jerry,

Please tell me you are joking, and trying to get everyone's goat.

What I find intriguing is the way you paint Dems as so pure and good and Reps as evil and bad. Don't you believe there is good and bad in both?

Jerry, ya gotta lay off the Koolaid.

Do you think with the economy the way it is/was, the country can or should be spending and spending and spending more and more and more? Geesh! There, I said it and I'll say it again... GEESH!!!
Is there ever a limit? Where does the money come from? Borrow from China? Remember that? We were being taken over, we were being owned. Wait... I got it, The RICH, the rich.... the rich..... (do you hear the drums?). Get out the f_ _ _ _ _ _ g pitchforks mama, we're going hunting tonight!

I do bitch about the roads, and the sidewalk, and the police, and schools, and gas and tolls, parts and materials. Now you want more? How much more? You have a better chance at getting sex.

The pres says we all have to tighten our belts and do our parts. Shouldn't he have to tighten his belt too? Shouldn't he? Shouldn't he? He spends money like a drunk sailor on shore leave!

Then they turn around and raise the bridge from $8 to $12. SO does tighten my belt translate into "I should have to have less to do more, so I can give the gov't more, so they can do less.

I don't remember where I heard it, but I remember a talking head saying something like every $50,000 job cost $200,000.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Even though Romney created it in and for his state when he was governor?

I would think that Republicans, who are backing Romney, would want to take credit for this vast improvement over what the country had before Romneycare took effect.

Gosh, this has been fun, but I dislike political arguments as the best thing for the country is to work together and not fight each other.

That said, one party is currently trying to force their religion and their like on the rest of the country (the Republicans) while the other party is currently trying to be inclusive and promote tolerance for all (the Democrats).

The Republicans went to war to try to stop Iraq from becoming a religious state (because the religious state was not to their liking), yet they want this country to become a religious state (as long as all believe as they believe).

Oh well, I will wait to see the outcries the above causes, but I will wait awhile and stay out of the fray and just not check this thread for a while so I can get a bigger picture of who says what ...

Romney vows to repeal Obamacare on Day 1 in office. He has said that decisions concerning healthcare should be made on a state and not a national level. I believe we must return to the basics and limit the role of government as set forth in The Constitution.

The other party is doing nothing to be "inclusive" because their leader continues to feed on and promote "divisiveness". Liberals and their fallacious ideology of tolerance is an empty concept because they are not tolerant of opposing views. That is because critical thinking, individualism and personal Liberty is against the Progressive agenda. Jerry, when in your lifetime has the country ever been more politically divided? Please don't say Bush because it wasn't even that bad during the Gore vs. Bush election.

Steve & Hank,
Can you say Cum By Ya.............

I can agree with Jerry and the concept that we all should get along and cooperate for the betterment of all,,,,, so long as you go along with what I want to do. Why? I know what is best for everyone else and my way is the right way.....and your way is evil.....

Bill Clinton was able to balance the budget despite the fact that the Rep controlled both houses and made him do it. Now that was working together.

Sorry that Jerry has a hard time with political discourse, he is usually so tolerant to diverse opinions. Hope the blood pressure goes down....

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

Steve & Hank,
Can you say Cum By Ya.............

I can agree with Jerry and the concept that we all should get along and cooperate for the betterment of all,,,,, so long as you go along with what I want to do. Why? I know what is best for everyone else and my way is the right way.....and your way is evil.....

Bill Clinton was able to balance the budget despite the fact that the Rep controlled both houses and made him do it. Now that was working together.

Sorry that Jerry has a hard time with political discourse, he is usually so tolerant to diverse opinions. Hope the blood pressure goes down....

I know Jerry is a good guy so it's nothing personal. Jerry has helped me answer code related questions in the past and I appreciate him.

I thought about bringing up Clinton because at least he had to come closer to the center with Newt and Reps in the House back in the 90's. His administration likely produced a budget and at the end of the term, a "surplus". (At least on paper as some had said.) The stock market was doing better back then. This helped build a nest egg for my relatives.

Does anyone feel very confident about their retirement program, 401K, SEP, IRA or position in the stock market now? As we continue to print money, avoid addressing inflation, run up national debt and stick our heads in the sand? I am a proud small business owner. I left the corporate world 10 years ago. I never worked for a municipality and I don't have a pension. That's why my idea of "hope & change" is the exact opposite of theirs.

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

The problem is that to many in our society do not want to get dirty.
It is easier to blame someone else.
It is easier to allow someone else to do it for you. Not my responsibility.
The mantra of don't stop nor get involved its not my problem is to wide spread.
The mind set of if I do not obtain an immediate benefit it is not worth my time.
Being an isolationist country only serves to empower others and in the end we will get involved. With a higher cost for lack decisive action.

It is interesting that this thread has carried on so long. I have a hope that the facts introduce are actually considered rather than having mental lock jaw.

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Stop by and take a quick view of his advertisers. I ran through all on the page in about 1 min.

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And Brian does monitor the site and react to requests

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