Board of Realtors - Affliate Membership

[Wade Hancock]

I'm thinking of joining my local B.O.R. as an affliate member. Mostly to acquire a SupraKEY so I'm not dependent on agents for access.

Currently, I'm not actively marketing to agents. But I'm not hostile toward them either. My thoughts are that joining, getting the key and getting a little exposure to industry professionals can't hurt.

But being new to the HI game, I wanted to get your thoughts on the idea.

(All totaled, I'm looking at around $500 for the setup, membership and SupraKEY. Substaintial hit to my 1st Quarter marketing budget for sure)

Thanks in advance for your input.

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[Rick Vernon]

Your about to be on the receiving end of a lot of different opinions. Duck!

I belong to the local boards as an affiliate member to have a Supra Key and wouldn't be without it.
My company, my call.

[Wade Hancock]

Your about to be on the receiving end of a lot of different opinions. Duck!

I belong to the local boards as an affiliate member to have a Supra Key and wouldn't be without it.
My company, my call.

opinions are what I'm hoping for!!
And thanks for yours, by the way.
noted.

[Dan Harris]

I'm thinking of joining my local B.O.R. as an affliate member. Mostly to acquire a SupraKEY so I'm not dependent on agents for access.

Currently, I'm not actively marketing to agents. But I'm not hostile toward them either. My thoughts are that joining, getting the key and getting a little exposure to industry professionals can't hurt.

But being new to the HI game, I wanted to get your thoughts on the idea.

(All totaled, I'm looking at around $500 for the setup, membership and SupraKEY. Substaintial hit to my 1st Quarter marketing budget for sure)

Thanks in advance for your input.

I found you gotta do what the others are doing in your area.
My area, i'm guessing 95% of the guys join to have the supra key. I held out for 5 or 6 years due to mostly doing new homes, in this market I had to revise and start marketing re-sales. The 1st question from the agents is you do have the supra key don't you.
Now if they only knew that we need a CBS code to access the home that would help, but that's another topic

[Scott Patterson]

Dan hit the nail on the head! You gotta do what everyone else is doing or you will be passed over for the next person in line. I fought getting a MLS key card(we have Sentrilock) for years. I was loosing business to those that had the key. So I joined a local Realtor Association for $230 a year and then paid $200 a year for the Sentrilock key.

After word got around the key more than paid for itself in very short order. On top of that it made my life much easier. Gone were the days of having to wait for an agent or trying to make schedules work just to get into a house. Another plus was when it came to setting and picking up radon test, I could do it on my schedule. We are lucky, we do not need the CBS code to get into homes.

Get the key and life will be better!

[Matt Fellman]

Question for you guys with keys... when the house is occupied do you check with the listing broker to be sure the appointment is set or do you just go in at scheduled time (knock first, of course)?

Around here (Oregon) very few inspectors have Supra Keys.... I get asked once or twice a year. I've though about it, mainly just so I can get in the house and get to work but have just never carried through with it.

[Gary Burnett]

I've had a Supra for 11 years and gladly pay the fees. Getting the CBS code from the listing agent generally assured that the seller was aware of the inspection date and times. Several years ago they gave Inspectors in my area access without CBS codes. Now I set up the appointments with Centralized Showing online where the listing agents have allowed inspections. When I can't set up through CSS I will call and email the listing agent with the date, time and ask if there is an alarm, what type of lockbox, etc. I also let them know I expect them to notify the sellers of my appointment times.
Nobody (except me) has to get up and unlock the doors anymore for me to do inspections.
Around Dallas it's expected you do the footwork.
By the way, you can get the listing agents email from TREC (at least the one they have on file).

Good luck

[Ted Menelly]

I'm thinking of joining my local B.O.R. as an affliate member. Mostly to acquire a SupraKEY so I'm not dependent on agents for access.

Currently, I'm not actively marketing to agents. But I'm not hostile toward them either. My thoughts are that joining, getting the key and getting a little exposure to industry professionals can't hurt.

But being new to the HI game, I wanted to get your thoughts on the idea.

(All totaled, I'm looking at around $500 for the setup, membership and SupraKEY. Substaintial hit to my 1st Quarter marketing budget for sure)

Thanks in advance for your input.

I don't know of your area but my membership in Fort Worth is about 220. My supra per year is about 200 give or take. 500 sounds a bit steep. If I joined say Weatherford my membership would be half and the supra the same. Shop area boards in different locals around you. Also don't let them talk you into anything but the basic membership. They will go for about another 100 that does you no good what so ever.

400 a year is not by quarter. Your 500 / 4 is 125 a quarter. That beats the hell out of having to set the inspection up based on what time and what day a Realtor can get there. Some folks have no problem with that but the home inspection is between me and the buyer. Add a third party and you will wind up in trouble or at least headaches on occasion.

[Nick Ostrowski]

Realtors are at most inspections around here and open the houses so I have no need for one. Many realtors stay for most of the inspection so they aren't just showing up, opening, and leaving.

[Ted Menelly]

Realtors are at most inspections around here and open the houses so I have no need for one. Many realtors stay for most of the inspection so they aren't just showing up, opening, and leaving.

It is extremely unusual for any Realtor in my area to not only not be at an inspection but to even show up at all. Their boards tell them that it may be seen as a conflict of interest in possibly swaying things one way or another and they should avoid it for legal liability sake. Yes some Realtors still actually still do this. I personally have not seen a Realtor even show up at all for 99% of the inspections I do.

I am not inputting just my thoughts and feeling, here (I know, huh!). This is what the Realtor Boards and their legal council teach them (go figure. A conflict of interest). The Realtors that still may show up are the ones that want the control from the beginning to the end.

[Nick Ostrowski]

Yeah, this is really different from one area to another and even one realtor to another. Some realtors around here want to be present for the entire inspection, some don't want to be there at all. Some sellers want their realtor present too. But one thing I notice is that the more expensive a house is, the more people there will be present for the inspection.

It's out of my hands and not my call in regard to who is and isn't there. My job is to inspect the house. If 10 people want to be there, I don't care as long as their presence doesn't interfere with what I have to do. 95%+ of the time, I am not the one opening the house so I place the responsibility of managing the visitors on the realtor.

[Scott Patterson]

Question for you guys with keys... when the house is occupied do you check with the listing broker to be sure the appointment is set or do you just go in at scheduled time (knock first, of course)?

Around here (Oregon) very few inspectors have Supra Keys.... I get asked once or twice a year. I've though about it, mainly just so I can get in the house and get to work but have just never carried through with it.

I show up at the door at my scheduled time with a smile on my face! I would say about 95% of the time the owner is expecting me or is not home. The other 5% the agents screwed up or the owner forgot. Such is life, you make the best of it and trudge forward.

[Wade Hancock]

Dan hit the nail on the head! You gotta do what everyone else is doing or you will be passed over for the next person in line. I fought getting a MLS key card(we have Sentrilock) for years. I was loosing business to those that had the key. So I joined a local Realtor Association for $230 a year and then paid $200 a year for the Sentrilock key.

After word got around the key more than paid for itself in very short order. On top of that it made my life much easier. Gone were the days of having to wait for an agent or trying to make schedules work just to get into a house. Another plus was when it came to setting and picking up radon test, I could do it on my schedule. We are lucky, we do not need the CBS code to get into homes.

Get the key and life will be better!

Looks like I'll be joining them soon.
Seems like a lot of positives.

Thank you all for your input.
Ya'll are a good sanity check!

[Jim Luttrall]

Looks like I'll be joining them soon.
Seems like a lot of positives.

Thank you all for your input.
Ya'll are a good sanity check!

This is not really marketing.
It is a tool.

[Ted Menelly]

Question for you guys with keys... when the house is occupied do you check with the listing broker to be sure the appointment is set or do you just go in at scheduled time (knock first, of course)?

Around here (Oregon) very few inspectors have Supra Keys.... I get asked once or twice a year. I've though about it, mainly just so I can get in the house and get to work but have just never carried through with it.

CSS is the company we call for scheduling. On occasion, and not many, the appointment has to be made through the listing agent. Then and only then is there ever a problem with scheduling. If CSS calls for the scheduling they call the seller and inform them that the buyers inspector wishes to set an appointment for Monday 8 am and wants it open for an aloted amount of time. I usually set it from 8 to 12. One in a hundred inspections and that is giving in greatly, more like well over a hundred the seller says Okee Dokeee. Why does it go through CSS? Because the Realtor cannot always be reached on a Friday night or weekend and they are not in the scheduling business for scheduling the home inspectors inspection. The inspection is between the Home Inspector and the Buyer and the only the party involved is the seller of the home. Which by the way is about never there as well.

One of the down sides is having to belong to an association and paying that fee and then paying the supra key fee. Just use a figure of 200 inspections. That is about 2.00 an inspection that it costs us. I can deal with that to never have problems with scheduling. That also separates the Realtor from Inspector. I already went over that earlier. More and more the Realtors are being taught to separate themselves from the Inspection altogether. They are actually suppose to give a minimum of three inspectors for the buyer to chose from. Most ignore that little rule. One day a Realtor will be called on it and as in any new rules, until one gets called on it most Realtors will ignore the new rule. If you look at actions taken against licensed parties (Realtors and Inspectors) almost all actions taken are against Realtors with about nil in comparison against inspectors.

[Wade Hancock]

This is not really marketing.
It is a tool.

Good way to look at it.

[Eric Barker]

Standard practice here is for agents to let us in and stay for the inspection.

I never go into an occupied home without an agent or homeowner present. When the time comes for me to sell our home I will not allow an inspector or buyer in my home without an agent. We have way too many unqualified inspectors to take the chance and some of the buyers can be really off the wall. I've had buyers go through owner's possessions and play with expensive a/v equipment. When the buyer's kids come along things can be real dicey.

Sellers can also end up claiming you broke or took something. Having the agent there is having a witness and someone to hold the reins on the buyer.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

Eric
we here in colorado are going thru the process of having to license inspectors because of a new Senator and real estate agent. and i have spent too many hours reading all of the states license laws, and i did your state.

you just lost me. illinois is a licensed state for home inspectors. you say there are imcompetent inspectors , why are they not zeroed in on by the inspector board ?

does it say in the license law that a agent or home owner has to be at inspection. i didn't see that.

why are you afraid to do an inspection of a occupied home alone ?. and buyers going thru sellers possesions. i take charge of my inspections, nobody touches anything but me-nobody. kids are told stay outside.

here buyer agents are told to stay away and if they come, they know to stay away from my inspection process.

i don't have time to wait for an agent to let me into a house, i set the inspection up with listing agent office and get lock box info and off i go. wait for an agent to show up, not me--i take control of my inspection for my client, not the agent or seller.

just my take

cvf

[Rick Bunzel]

Charlie,

Washington's home inspectors are licensed and at least in the Puget Sound area only Realtors and Appraisers are allowed to have SupraKeys. I wish we had the keys, it would simplify booking appointments. I have never heard of a seller claiming items stolen or damage but know it has happened in other areas.

Wade - I belong to the local board and leverage that membership to find out who the new members are and contact info. I am also involved with the communications committee and that gets me into the offices on occasion on committee business. Overall I would say that my involvement has boosted my brand in the association. I can say that there are a number of agents that gave me a chance because I was involved and continue to refer me. Your mileage may vary.

//Rick

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

SUPRAKEYS

interesting i will ask at a meeting tomorrow of internachi-ashi and nahi--if they have those keys.or want them.sounds like realtor breakfast club

cvf

[Scott Patterson]

SUPRAKEYS

interesting i will ask at a meeting tomorrow of internachi-ashi and nahi--if they have those keys.or want them.sounds like realtor breakfast club

cvf

Ours are called Sentrilock card keys.

[Frank Adame]

With HUD homes, the buyers agent is supposed to be there from begining to end. I haven't seen one yet. Another agent said she likes to be there to "help explain things to the buyer". I explain in my contract that if too many people, especially children, will be present, that I will not be responsible for any verbal misunderstandings between me and the buyer.

I recently starting asking buyers if they have known their agent for a while. I'm trying to get a feeling if the buyer and their agent are buddies. Usually the buyers will say they just met. At that time I go out on the limb and advice them to pay closer attention to my evaluations than that of their Realtor. I very quickly got to the point a while back that I will set a Realtor straight, right in front of the buyer, if I feel the agent is way off base in their explanations.

[Stuart Brooks]

Question for you guys with keys... when the house is occupied do you check with the listing broker to be sure the appointment is set or do you just go in at scheduled time (knock first, of course)?

Around here (Oregon) very few inspectors have Supra Keys.... I get asked once or twice a year. I've though about it, mainly just so I can get in the house and get to work but have just never carried through with it.

The local association requires affiliates to use a CBS number for access with Supra Keys. The trouble with that is that I have to call the association office to get the CBS number after I have arrived at the inspection and recorded the serial number on the box. Most of the agents don't know what a CBS number is much less track what box is on what house. Of course, the association office has banker's hours and none on weekends or holidays. And we are SOL if the computer they use is down.

The associations to the North use Sentrilocks and they have started invading this area. At least I can usually get a One Day pass code from those agents. Although I did run into one lady who told me there was no such thing as a "One Day" code.

I only use it to enter empty homes. I will not go into an occupied home without a agent or an owner present. I most often use it to set or pick up my Radon monitors. It became a hassle to try to get an agent there just to open the door for 5 minutes.

[Ted Menelly]

The local association requires affiliates to use get a CBS number for access with Supra Keys. The trouble with that is that I have to call the association office to get the CBS number after I have arrived at the inspection and recorded the serial number on the box. Most of the agents don't know what a CBS number is much less track what box is on what house. Of course, the association office has banker's hours and none on weekends or holidays. And we are SOL if the computer they use is down.

The associations to the North use Sentrilocks and they have started invading this area. At least I can usually get a One Day pass code from those agents. Although I did run into one lady who told me there was no such thing as a "One Day" code.

I only use it to enter empty homes. I will not go into an occupied home without a agent or an owner present. I most often use it to set or pick up my Radon monitors. It became a hassle to try to get an agent there just to open the door for 5 minutes.

we haven't had to get a CBS code for a couple years now. I am Not sure what the hell is it NC is entering a home it's occupied. you have to understand you have permission to enter that home and that permission is given by the seller. I have gone into thousands of homes with a supra of homes that are occupied And there has never been a problem.

It became a matter of fact that if someone is home it is an oh crap feeling.....someone is home. Yes we used to have to call either CSS or the listing agent for a CBS code. Now we just call CSS and there is almost never a problem.

I am NOT going to start the pool thing about realtors in all that but. Once you have the separation from them with such a little thing as not havin.g to call 1 for a CBS code. You will feel in Independence unlike any that you felt so far in the business that you're in

[Nolan Kienitz]

Interesting to see how things are done or maybe even required in other areas of the USA.

In my 12-years of residential inspections I think the buyer's agent has only been present at maybe a total of 10 inspections. Only twice have both the listing and buyer's agent been there at the same time with sellers/buyers ... like it was a party!

I seldom ever see an agent and I prefer it that way.

Even if they (buyer's agent) are present they know from the git-go to keep quiet as that is my time with my client. Any observations they have are not made in my presence as I'll shut 'em down in a heartbeat.

Multiple family members or other friends/relatives/lookie-lous I keep herded in one/two rooms and they are not allowed to 'wander' during the inspection time. If they want to come back with the buyer's agent and 'wander' they are more than welcome to do so.

.

[Rick Vernon]

Yup, different areas. Realtors in my area have stopped giving one day codes because professionals have the key. Our board wants you to have your own key.
Frank A. I dont think HUD cares weather or not the realtor stays. I have tried to track that down and the closest I can come to it the Freddie Mac property manager companies are requiring it.
If someone knows something different please pass it along.

[Wade Hancock]

we haven't had to get a CBS code for a couple years now. I am Not sure what the hell is it NC is entering a home it's occupied. you have to understand you have permission to enter that home and that permission is given by the seller. I have gone into thousands of homes with a supra of homes that are occupied And there has never been a problem.

It became a matter of fact that if someone is home it is an oh crap feeling.....someone is home. Yes we used to have to call either CSS or the listing agent for a CBS code. Now we just call CSS and there is almost never a problem.

I am NOT going to start the pool thing about realtors in all that but. Once you have the separation from them with such a little thing as not havin.g to call 1 for a CBS code. You will feel in Independence unlike any that you felt so far in the business that you're in

I've decided to join my local B.O.R. (thank you all for your input)
That said, my local BOR is for an area situated between two larger metro areas (Austin and San Antonio) - I service all these areas.

Will the SupraKEY I get work in all these areas, or will I need to join all 3 boards in order to obtain access. Or, should I join all 3 boards anyway? Those of you who are members of your BOR, are you members of more than one?

Thanks!

[Lon Henderson]

My understanding is that the Denver metro area is the largest market in the US that hasn't embraced e-lockboxes. Many years ago when they first came out, Supra tried to ram them down Realtor's throats here, and the Realtor's revolted. As a result, e-boxes are barely used here. I have no problem getting one day codes when I run into them.

[Ted Menelly]

I've decided to join my local B.O.R. (thank you all for your input)
That said, my local BOR is for an area situated between two larger metro areas (Austin and San Antonio) - I service all these areas.

Will the SupraKEY I get work in all these areas, or will I need to join all 3 boards in order to obtain access. Or, should I join all 3 boards anyway? Those of you who are members of your BOR, are you members of more than one?

Thanks!

The supra keya work from Mineral Wells way out past Rowlet and way north of Denton County to Waxahachie. That in itslef is a huge area. Does it work past there? Maybe but I just could not say. You will have to talk to your board you joined but I would bet you are covered at least as far as you are willing to go for an inspection.

I belong to one board. No need to be a member of multiple boards unless you wish to market them at their meetings and such. I would bet you can even do that if you wanted to hand them money like paying for the lunch of a bunch of Realtors to get maybe 2 minutes to introduce yourself. You will find that out as well. MArket Realtor offices and buy them lunch to introduce yourself. There will be an offic manager or broker at the back of the room counting down the seconds of your 2 minutes.........You're atta hear.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

ted

did you do that -your last post--sounds like past experience

cvf

[Nolan Kienitz]

I've decided to join my local B.O.R. (thank you all for your input)
That said, my local BOR is for an area situated between two larger metro areas (Austin and San Antonio) - I service all these areas.

Will the SupraKEY I get work in all these areas, or will I need to join all 3 boards in order to obtain access. Or, should I join all 3 boards anyway? Those of you who are members of your BOR, are you members of more than one?

Thanks!

WH - You need to ask the BOR you joined how far their SurpaKey contract covers. Ask them if they have a 'cooperative agreement' with Austin and San Antonio.

I know the Austin BOR requires HIs to obtain CBS codes. I'm not sure about San Antonio.

As Ted M. noted most all (I'm pretty sure that is a firm 'all') of the BORs in the D/FW market have a cooperative agreement for the SupraKey. I'm a member of the Weatherford Association (West of F.W.) and I live in Plano ... NE of Dallas.

I think the HIs over in Tyler (E. TX) have a SupraKey, but they are not part of the D/FW cooperative deal. I'm pretty sure that is correct.

If you ended up looking to joining multiple BORs for SupraKeys you would then have to carry about 3 of the blame things and also pay for each of them as they would be discreet to each BOR's area.

I know that Scott P. up in the Nashville area (in time past) had to deal with multiple BORs and they did not have a cooperative effort at one time either.

I dislike the fact I have to pay $$ to a BOR just for the sake of spending more $$ for the SupraKey (BTW ... now known as an ActiveKey). I certainly would not be wanting to spend duplicate $$ for more BORs just for the Keys. UGH!!

.

[Wade Hancock]

Thank you.
I'll be meeting with them soon.

[David Edenburn]

In my case I didn't have to join and buy the key, I'm married to a Realtor. However, if I wasn't, I would join the local Realtor Board. Besides the key, you get the MLS access; lots of good stuff in the MLS like disclosure reports, original contruction date, renovations, etc. that are good to know before going into a house (assuming the listing agent knew how to fill out all the forms).

[Wade Hancock]

In my case I didn't have to join and buy the key, I'm married to a Realtor. However, if I wasn't, I would join the local Realtor Board. Besides the key, you get the MLS access; lots of good stuff in the MLS like disclosure reports, original contruction date, renovations, etc. that are good to know before going into a house (assuming the listing agent knew how to fill out all the forms).

Joined them yesterday.
Got the key and found that it will work from just south of Austin down through San Antonio (in most cases). So, not bad. Thank you all for your input... I think this will be a move in the right direction.

[Nolan Kienitz]

In my case I didn't have to join and buy the key, I'm married to a Realtor. However, if I wasn't, I would join the local Realtor Board. Besides the key, you get the MLS access; lots of good stuff in the MLS like disclosure reports, original contruction date, renovations, etc. that are good to know before going into a house (assuming the listing agent knew how to fill out all the forms).

Joining a BOR here only gets you privileges to spend more $$. In that you get calls to sponsor (translate ... pay for) a breakfast, lunch or permission to put your cards at a table as long as you pay for part of the event, be it golf or whatever.

Joining the BOR is a fee that just allows us inspectors to spend MORE $$ for the rental of the ActiveKey (name of new key replacing the SupraKey).

Joining the BOR does not get the inspector anymore access to data about a house RE: MLS listings, etc.. Associate members (IE - inspectors) are not allowed to have such access.

It is all about control that the realtor/agent/broker maintains over inspectors.

[Wade Hancock]

Got the membership, got the key (smart phone option), got the request to sponsor their monthly luncheon.

Anyway, thanks for the advice.
I think it'll be money well spent.

[Jim Hintz]

Charlie,

Washington's home inspectors are licensed and at least in the Puget Sound area only Realtors and Appraisers are allowed to have SupraKeys. I wish we had the keys, it would simplify booking appointments. I have never heard of a seller claiming items stolen or damage but know it has happened in other areas.

Wade - I belong to the local board and leverage that membership to find out who the new members are and contact info. I am also involved with the communications committee and that gets me into the offices on occasion on committee business. Overall I would say that my involvement has boosted my brand in the association. I can say that there are a number of agents that gave me a chance because I was involved and continue to refer me. Your mileage may vary.

//Rick

Same here in the South End, The MLS won't budge. No SupraKey for Home Inspectors.

[Phil Houck]

Supra or whatever electronic keypad is just the cost of doing business.
I have heard more than a few complaints from realtors when they have had to open a home for other inspectors. (maybe it is because most every inspector has one)
Here is eastern Pa, I've been recommended by realtors for years that I have never seen face to face.
At most, 10% of realtors show up for the inspection and only a few of the 10% stay for the full inspection.

[Mark Reinmiller]

Depends on your market. I belong to get the key. Our local affiliate members sponsor some happy hours where you can meet Realtors. I don't go to them. Although I have the key in my market the selling agent almost always comes to the inspection and I let them unlock. I only end up using the key about 5-10 times per year. I do not do Radon testing. If I did I'm sure I would use it a lot more. I should add that in my market at least 95% of buyers are present for the inspection.

[Ted Menelly]

Supra or whatever electronic keypad is just the cost of doing business.
I have heard more than a few complaints from realtors when they have had to open a home for other inspectors. (maybe it is because most every inspector has one)
Here is eastern Pa, I've been recommended by realtors for years that I have never seen face to face.
At most, 10% of realtors show up for the inspection and only a few of the 10% stay for the full inspection.

I am not sure why you say "It is just the cost of business" Getting a key for your convenience yes. Having to pay a Realtor association for that privilege, not. That would be under the "Unnecessary cost of doing business" and what I believe those that have complained have expressed.

We here in the DFW area had to work on not having to get a CBS code for the Supra key. The next step is being worked on to get our involvement in the Realtors association as in having to give them 200 or more a year to join their association for the privilege of getting a Supra (now active) Key that we have to pay 200.00 a year to get.. I think that is completely ludicrous to have to pay another association so we can then pay a couple hundred a year for a key. We have our asociations that we already have to pay. Dam, for 200 a year for every single key in the area that home inspector posses????? I will be happy to talk to an inspector once a year to collect money for 200.00 a year x 1000 or so inspectors 200,000.00 divided by several Realtor associations. I will drive to every inspectors home once a year to collect the money at 200,000.00 per year. Na, just have them come to me once a year.

[Ted Menelly]

Same here in the South End, The MLS won't budge. No SupraKey for Home Inspectors.

We had that same mentality for years about CBS codes being eliminated. Even when it passed that we had to have our keys updated after they past the no CBS code I called the association and the woman at the desk thought I was crazy even thinking about a stop to that. "After all, we just cannot have just anybody having open access to the homes". She did not even know it was passed. When I went to the association she was at the front desk and I asked her where I take the key for updating. She gave me a pretty sour look and directed me. I looked back at her on the way out and smiled and said "I guess they do let just anybody have access".

In case anyone is wondering there has never been a complaint about the just anybody's having access to the homes. I have never had a seller greet me that was not smiling and the Realtors are freed up to go about their business instead of ours. No dooms day scenario.