Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    14

    Question What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    I am selling a rental property. The buyers paid their home inspector and then asked for four repairs. The repairs were correcting the low setting on a gas range burner so the flame would not go out, adding a GFCI kitchen outlet where one was not required, connecting an inoperative attic fan that never has had an electrical connection and, finally, turning on the angle stop to a toilet that needed a new flapper.

    In their repair demand, the buyers asked that I pay for a return visit and report from their inspector. My wife and I fixed the range and toilet and offered to install a GFCI outlet or leave one for the buyers. We refused to do anything about the fan. I'm not willing to pay their inspector, partly because the inspection really isn't necessary.

    Also because of this: Wouldn't it create a conflict of interest for the inspector to be paid by both buyer and seller in a single transaction? I'm sure most inspectors are honest, but I would not want to rely on a report paid for by a party who has an interest in exaggerating or minimizing things in which I should be interested. If you do see a conflict, is there a code of ethics or something that would make that clear?

    Similar Threads:
    Last edited by Bob Hucker; 04-29-2020 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Can I move this to the Associations, Ethics... subforum? Maybe it fits better there?
    F.I.R.E. Services

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    27,440

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    No conflict of interest when all is known and out in the open.

    The key to your decision will be this: do you want to sell ... and ... are you willing to lose the sale over that?

    It's a choice all sellers have to make.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    2,920

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hucker View Post
    I am selling a rental property. The buyers paid their home inspector and then asked for four repairs. The repairs were correcting the low setting on a gas range burner so the flame would not go out, adding a GFCI kitchen outlet where one was not required, connecting an inoperative attic fan that never has had an electrical connection and, finally, turning on the angle stop to a toilet that needed a new flapper.

    In their repair demand, the buyers asked that I pay for a return visit and report from their inspector. My wife and I fixed the range and toilet and offered to install a GFCI outlet or leave one for the buyers. We refused to do anything about the fan. I'm not willing to pay their inspector, partly because the inspection really isn't necessary.

    Also because of this: Wouldn't it create a conflict of interest for the inspector to be paid by both buyer and seller in a single transaction? I'm sure most inspectors are honest, but I would not want to rely on a report paid for by a party who has an interest in exaggerating or minimizing things in which I should be interested. If you do see a conflict, is there a code of ethics or something that would make that clear?
    Bob,

    In California, this is typically something that is negotiated between the buyer and seller through their agents. Personally, I don't like doing reinspections because so often, the repairs were done incorrectly. Then, I become the bad guy and no one likes me. I don't know about the conflict of interest. In Texas, I believe home inspectors are governed by the Texas Real Estate Commission. Maybe contact them to find out?

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,476

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    the buyers asked that I pay for a return visit and report from their inspector
    Have you discussed this with your agent or whomever is representing your interests?

    People can negotiate whatever they want (including you), so just because a request or demand was made, doesn't mean too much.
    Off the cuff, it seems unreasonable that the seller would pay for a re-inspect on a list of negotiated repairs, but, who knows...


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Garland, TX
    Posts
    677

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hucker View Post
    I am selling a rental property. The buyers paid their home inspector and then asked for four repairs. The repairs were correcting the low setting on a gas range burner so the flame would not go out, adding a GFCI kitchen outlet where one was not required, connecting an inoperative attic fan that never has had an electrical connection and, finally, turning on the angle stop to a toilet that needed a new flapper.

    In their repair demand, the buyers asked that I pay for a return visit and report from their inspector. My wife and I fixed the range and toilet and offered to install a GFCI outlet or leave one for the buyers. We refused to do anything about the fan. I'm not willing to pay their inspector, partly because the inspection really isn't necessary.

    Also because of this: Wouldn't it create a conflict of interest for the inspector to be paid by both buyer and seller in a single transaction? I'm sure most inspectors are honest, but I would not want to rely on a report paid for by a party who has an interest in exaggerating or minimizing things in which I should be interested. If you do see a conflict, is there a code of ethics or something that would make that clear?
    no conflict if "the report facts" are agreed to be disclosed to both parties openly & without bias as they should be by all parties in any real estate transaction regardless

    reinspection "is necessary" per the buyer to assure them all repairs are compliant & is usually paid buy the purchaser of the inspection report at least that's how i roll

    what is the cost of an electrical run to the fan?
    is it worth blowing the sale in the current upsidedown world climate?

    trec ?535.227 Standards of Practice: General Provisions & ?535.220 Professional Conduct and Ethics about 1/2 way down pages

    btw: "adding a GFCI kitchen outlet where one was not required" may affect other downstream duplex receptacles in that room or others on that circuit and would require labeling as gfci protected and no equipment ground present if appliacable

    Last edited by BARRY ADAIR; 04-29-2020 at 11:17 PM.
    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    27,440

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    Barry - what does the Texas IRC and Existing Building Code state regarding permits in Chapter 1 Administrative?

    I haven't looked at the Texas codes to see what permits are required, and what is specifically exempt from having a permit (and, more specifically, not listed as exempt from permits) - and if it states something to the effect that work exempt from permits is not exempt from the code, that exempt work is still required to meet code.

    Then what does Texas statute say about how reporting/not reporting unlicensed work effect a licensed person?

    If it says what I suspect it may say, that could create a conundrum for a licensed Texas home inspector.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Garland, TX
    Posts
    677

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Barry - what does the Texas IRC and Existing Building Code state regarding permits in Chapter 1 Administrative?

    I haven't looked at the Texas codes to see what permits are required, and what is specifically exempt from having a permit (and, more specifically, not listed as exempt from permits) - and if it states something to the effect that work exempt from permits is not exempt from the code, that exempt work is still required to meet code.

    Then what does Texas statute say about how reporting/not reporting unlicensed work effect a licensed person?

    If it says what I suspect it may say, that could create a conundrum for a licensed Texas home inspector.
    irc

    direct from promulgated t.r.e.c.onundrum property inspection agreement

    TEXAS REAL ESTATE CONSUMER NOTICE CONCERNING HAZARDS OR DEFICIENCIES
    Each year, Texans sustain property damage and are injured by accidents in the home. While some accidents may not be avoidable, many other accidents, injuries, and deaths may be avoided through the identification and repair of certain hazardous conditions. Examples of such hazards include:
    ? malfunctioning, improperly installed, or missing ground fault circuit protection (GFCI) devices for electrical
    ? receptacles in garages, bathrooms, kitchens, and exterior areas;
    ? malfunctioning arc fault protection (AFCI) devices;
    ? ordinary glass in locations where modern construction techniques call for safety glass;
    ? malfunctioning or lack of fire safety features such as smoke alarms, fire-rated doors in certain locations, and functional emergency escape and rescue openings in bedrooms;
    ? malfunctioning carbon monoxide alarms;
    ? excessive spacing between balusters on stairways and porches;
    ? improperly installed appliances;
    ? improperly installed or defective safety devices;
    ? lack of electrical bonding and grounding; and
    ? lack of bonding on gas piping, including corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST).

    To ensure that consumers are informed of hazards such as these, the Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC) has adopted Standards of Practice requiring licensed inspectors to report these conditions as ?Deficient? when performing an inspection for a buyer or seller, if they can be reasonably determined.

    These conditions may not have violated building codes or common practices at the time of the construction of the home, or they may have been ?grandfathered? because they were present prior to the adoption of codes prohibiting such conditions.
    While the TREC Standards of Practice do not require inspectors to perform a code compliance inspection, TREC considers the potential for injury or property loss from the hazards addressed in the Standards of Practice to be significant enough to warrant this notice.

    once you go through the entire sop you'll find numerous conflicts in what is & isn't required

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    27,440

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    What I was thinking of was, as Texas licensed people, if a Texas home inspector sees something that is likely/obviously/most likely 'work done without a permit', could (by statute and/or licensing requirements) the home inspector be disciplined by the state for not reporting the unpermitted work.

    Which lead me to: what work requires permits?

    Any Texas changes to Chapter 1 Administrative in the IRC?

    Added with edit: see 105.1 Required and 105.2 Work exempt from permit.

    Not much is exempt from permits.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 04-30-2020 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Added IRC section numbers
    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    27,440

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hucker View Post
    ... connecting an inoperative attic fan that never has had an electrical connection ...
    Regarding that specific item - did you have that listed on your seller disclosure?

    If not, the common presumption of a buyer looking at your house would be that an installed fan works ... and that whatever is required to get it working is the sellers responsibility.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Regarding that specific item - did you have that listed on your seller disclosure?

    If not, the common presumption of a buyer looking at your house would be that an installed fan works ... and that whatever is required to get it working is the sellers responsibility.
    It wasn't on the disclosure, because we didn't know the fan existed until now. We guess it was installed by a contractor who installed a roof for the previous owner, and the owner didn't want to pay for electrical work to connect it. It's in an attic that no one uses for storage, because there's another attic that is more spacious and easier to access.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Garland, TX
    Posts
    677

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    What I was thinking of was, as Texas licensed people, if a Texas home inspector sees something that is likely/obviously/most likely 'work done without a permit', could (by statute and/or licensing requirements) the home inspector be disciplined by the state for not reporting the unpermitted work.

    Which lead me to: what work requires permits? most in these also muni dependent amendments & then we have the unincorporated/uninspected wild, wild west
    builder contractor says it's good, it;s good
    don't mess with texas

    Any Texas changes to Chapter 1 Administrative in the IRC? muni dependent & then we have the unincorporated/uninspected wild, wild west

    Added with edit: see 105.1 Required and 105.2 Work exempt from permit.

    Not much is exempt from permits.
    none of the items in the op would require permits afaik

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    27,440

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hucker View Post
    The repairs were

    correcting the low setting on a gas range burner so the flame would not go out,

    adding a GFCI kitchen outlet where one was not required,

    connecting an inoperative attic fan that never has had an electrical connection and, finally,

    turning on the angle stop to a toilet that needed a new flapper.
    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    none of the items in the op would require permits afaik
    I've separated the items in the original post for easier reference as shown above.

    The first item in the original list, adjusting the gas, should have been done be a gas contractor, but that's another issue: R105.2 Permits not required, 3rd item down, Gas, 2. (under Gas) - questionable for exempt from permit.

    Second item in the original list, adding GFCI, R501.2 Permits not required, 2nd item down, Electrical, not exempt as it is not covered under items 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

    Third item on original list - same as above, not exempt per R501.2.

    Fourth item in the original list, the angle stop, 5th item, Plumbing, not exempt as it's not within items 1 or 2 exemptions.

    Not me, that's what the code states and why I referred you to those sections.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Garland, TX
    Posts
    677

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I've separated the items in the original post for easier reference as shown above.

    The first item in the original list, adjusting the gas, should have been done be a gas contractor, but that's another issue: R105.2 Permits not required, 3rd item down, Gas, 2. (under Gas) - questionable for exempt from permit.

    Second item in the original list, adding GFCI, R501.2 Permits not required, 2nd item down, Electrical, not exempt as it is not covered under items 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

    Third item on original list - same as above, not exempt per R501.2.

    Fourth item in the original list, the angle stop, 5th item, Plumbing, not exempt as it's not within items 1 or 2 exemptions.

    Not me, that's what the code states and why I referred you to those sections.
    JP
    clearly understood where you were going with your questions & how things should be reported
    reality is even if permits were pulled for the simple repair items
    any follow up final code inspection would be doubtful in my service area ymmv
    code inspectors do not climb into attics & do not generally operate appliances & generally do not followup for single items

    most know these simple repair permits are a usage tax by the cities for the priveledge of improving your property

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    27,440

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    ... most know these simple repair permits are a usage tax by the cities for the priveledge of improving your property
    That's what the tax asser does.

    The building department helps stop people from killing themselves (and others).

    And, yes, code inspectors don't look at a lot - if a code inspector were to look at a lot, permit fees would have to skyrocket to pay for it.

    Also, yes, I'm quite dismayed that some code inspectors think it's a 'no brain required' job ... that usually comes from anove (building official), and that usually comes from above (city commissioners), and that usually comes re-election money (contractors who supply campaign funds complaining that inspectors "are to tough").

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    In 14 years of inspecting I have never seen a buyer ask for the seller to pay for a re-inspection for repair items.


  16. #16

    Default Re: What if home buyer and seller pay same inspector?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trent Tarter View Post
    In 14 years of inspecting I have never seen a buyer ask for the seller to pay for a re-inspection for repair items.
    There's a Dutch expression that says "You have NO already...". A buyer can ask for anything they want. As Jerry said - It's up to the seller (and sometimes the buyer) to decide if they want to lose the sale over it. Its up to the used house salespeople to negotiate the deal.

    I don't really care who pays for the re-inspection. I do require a new contract to be signed however.

    Egbert Jager
    Diamond Home Inspection
    http://www.diamondhomeinspection.ca

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •