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Thread: Working dogs

  1. #1
    John Watson's Avatar
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    Default Working dogs

    I'm considering investing in a termite or mold sniffing dog. They cost around 5K here. I've heard from a termite inspector that certification or licensing is may not be required if the state form isn't used.

    Any opinions?

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  2. #2
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    A company up here in DFW has a termite sniffing dog. I am not sure how he makes out with that.

    You are not even suppose to comment on wood destroying insects unless you have a license to do so. Terminix does termite inspections but does not fill out the form. The only time they will give anything to a client is if something is found and then it is a proposal for treatment and warranty. I do not know how they get away with it. I think they do the inspection for free.

    5000 for a mold and termite sniffing dog.....5000 for a mold and termite sniffing dog. Do you have a pest control company as well or an Applicators license or a mold inspection license. If you do, 5000 is going to take some time to pay back. If you are not offering treatment for such there won't be a money intake. If you don't have a license to do such then you cannot charge your clients a premium. If you are a home inspector you can not comment on termites and such unless you also have a termite inspection license. You are opening yourself up for liability if termites show up a week later and puppy missed them.

    Just a whole bunch of thoughts and opinions


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Termite inspectors inspect just like we do "visually". They make an extra 70-85 for twenty minutes of work. The dog was going to be a family dog as well. Family pets generally don't promote income or are a tax wrtie off. I figured, why not get one that will make some money as well as play with your kids.

    Exterminators make more money applicating, but more work and time.

    I'm not sure on the legalities, but i'd like to hear some more input.
    Mold licensing is easier to obtain, but I wonder if the dog will die sooner or is cruel.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Like I say. You cannot inspect for termites and charge for it unless you are licensed. Working as a home inspector you cannot comment on the definitive answer to "Yes there are termites" unless you are licensed for such. I have an inactive termite license, I did take the state test. I use someone else to do termite inspections.

    The inspector up here says that every inspection he does he has his dog with him and every home is inspected by his dog. He obviously does not have a termite license because he also puts into his marketing that a full termite inspection can be scheduled for the clients and it will come with a report and the cost is 75.00. I would venture to say that he is not operating under the law unless there is some little loop hole because if you are a home inspector you are not suppose to comment on termites unless you have a termite license Puppy works for free. With out saying it directly to his clients he is putting it to them that he is an inspector for termites and Puppy is as well. He gives this away to get more work. The clients believing in there mind is "well the dog is trained so if nothing is found then we don't have to put out the extra 75.00

    Hype, fluff and bull. Oh yeah, he also has a water level he takes measurements around the home, draws up a graph and tells them he is doing a foundation analysis.

    So, home inspection, termite inspection, foundation analysis. His minimum is 250 dollars. All that for 250 and he is not even a licensed termite inspector or engineer or foundation repair man.


    Fluff, hype and bull.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Sounds like he found the right "loophole" as you put it. He is not the one looking for live termites, the dog is. That's his gimmick and it may be working for him. Dogs find many things that the human can't and that's probably his service, the dog's nose. His report to the client is probably only the determination that the dog gave a signal to the area inspected by the dog. No WDI report.The dog it'self is certified to be a termite sniffer, and that's what he offers. Everything else is beaurocracy.

    The government and police tramples on our constitutional rights thru loopholes all the time. At least this guy is actually doing a service if the dog is actually trained for such work.

    With that said.... all that for $250? with that price he hurts our industry.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    250

    That is my biggest gripe.

    I know I have posted this before but I fight pricing pretty well. The problem is when others are charging the same minimum but give away the farm.

    Got a 900 dollar water level? You might as well take measurement around the home. Draw out a graph. Call it a foundation analysis. Oh yeah, give it away so I can get more inspections.

    Buy a dog, pay the cost, oh yeah, call it a termite inspection, don't charge for it just so I can get more inspections and appear superior is product offering. People will love me.

    Offer your products legitimately, charge reasonably, stand on your own merits.

    There is a company in this area that actually teaches inspectors to offer more goods for free and get more inspections.

    Might as well pay 5 to 10,000 for an IR camera and offer the pictures and opinions for free and give away the termite and foundation analysis

    Ya HOOeeeeee


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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    I'm considering investing in a termite or mold sniffing dog. They cost around 5K here. I've heard from a termite inspector that certification or licensing is may not be required if the state form isn't used.

    Any opinions?
    It's lucky that certification might not be required... Getting those dogs to pass the tests can be quite difficult


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    I took the IR class, but leased instead of purchased. I'm glad I did becuase the most i was making to include IR with the inspection was 50 extra. I don't do it anymore. Nobody cares for it too much even with an energy audit since all they care about is numbers and stats.

    I'm still curious about the dog since that's my nature as a business man....always looking for an angle or diversification.

    I also took the asbestos inspection course and find out later there was more bullcrap to go thru before i could even perform the inspections in public buildings.
    Oh really! It turns out no license is required to perform asbestos surveys on private residetial or commercial buildings. SEE..!!! From the horses mouth. So as far as termite or mold inspections, there's still much confusion as to the way the rules are written and read.

    I'm not the busiest inspector in town, but I sure as hell make my money's worth even if they're two a week and still play golf. Those other morons can keep charging cheap. The slow economy is gonna pay off big time for us that stick around and true.


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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    Sounds like he found the right "loophole" as you put it. He is not the one looking for live termites, the dog is.
    John,

    *HE* *IS* the one inspecting for termites.

    Just like when any other termite inspector goes out to do an termite inspection, you bring with you the equipment and tools you feel you need to do the job you need to do.

    Those tools typically include:

    - ladders (rarely )

    - flashlights

    - gas sniffers

    - those X-ray gadgets which look for motion in the walls

    - infrared camera

    - dogs.

    *THE DOG* is just "a tool" that the termite inspector is using.

    If that termite inspector is not licensed and is advertising termite inspections, he is required to be certified as a pest control operator and have a licensed pest control business, or be an employee of same with the appropriate license to inspect (in Florida, that would be an WDO Inspector ID card).

    What you are saying would be like saying you are driving a car be remote control, but you don't need a driver's license because you are not actually in the car driving it - makes no sense at all.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Here's a quote from the Texas Pest regulators. You inspired me to visit their website, and after reading the rule, sounds like I could probably raise my inspection fee a few tens of dollars and offer the termite inspection free. pay close attention to the term infestation. I don't see anywhere it says you can't inspect for termite activity, or even for free. You being an expert witness knows about loopholes, and this looks like a few of them. Are you an expert witness? Are you the guy that is hired by the lawyer for about $125 an hour to put other colleagues out of business?




    . In this chapter, a person is engaged in the "business of structural pest control" if the person performs, offers to perform, or advertises for or solicits the person's performance of any of the following services for compensation, including services performed as a part of the person's employment:
    (1) identifying infestations or making inspections for the purpose of identifying or attempting to identify infestations of:
    (A) arthropods, including insects, spiders, mites, ticks, and related pests, wood-infesting organisms, rodents, weeds, nuisance birds, and any other obnoxious or undesirable animals that may infest households, railroad cars, ships, docks, trucks, airplanes, or other structures or their contents


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    Here's a quote from the Texas Pest regulators. You inspired me to visit their website, and after reading the rule, sounds like I could probably raise my inspection fee a few tens of dollars and offer the termite inspection free. pay close attention to the term infestation. I don't see anywhere it says you can't inspect for termite activity, or even for free. You being an expert witness knows about loopholes, and this looks like a few of them. Are you an expert witness? Are you the guy that is hired by the lawyer for about $125 an hour to put other colleagues out of business?




    . In this chapter, a person is engaged in the "business of structural pest control" if the person performs, offers to perform, or advertises for or solicits the person's performance of any of the following services for compensation, including services performed as a part of the person's employment:
    (1) identifying infestations or making inspections for the purpose of identifying or attempting to identify infestations of:
    (A) arthropods, including insects, spiders, mites, ticks, and related pests, wood-infesting organisms, rodents, weeds, nuisance birds, and any other obnoxious or undesirable animals that may infest households, railroad cars, ships, docks, trucks, airplanes, or other structures or their contents

    You are being compensated. You are not reading it correctly. You are getting compensation. You are performing a home inspection for a fee and you are including inspecting for termites. A Home Inspection License does not give you license to perform a termite inspection in anyway. It is only for a home inspection which does not include a termite inspection.

    No matter how you want to try to read it you are inspecting for termites with a home inspectors license and are receiving a fee for it through your home inspectors fee. You are operating as a termite inspector no matter how you want to read into it. As I said I took the termite test. I also worked on the side for a termite company performing pest control, termite inspections and treatments

    If you have read any of my posts in the past you will also know that I hate having to abide by anyone's rules but I know there are rules and I have to abide by them.

    Now the technical part. In your home inspection report I am sure you would not have a separate fee for a termite inspection. But as I say this I have to add, you can not do anything about the termites or write a report up on them. Your customers are still going to have to pay for a new termite inspection from a licensed termite man so he can determine that there are in fact termites and then write a proposal to treat such. Why is he charging for the termite inspection after you have charged for it, because he is going to write a proposal for treatment. The proposal may not be accepted. He has to get paid for his time.

    Now, the client has paid for 2 termite inspections. How long do you think that will last with any Realtor referring you or saying something to someone and you get bagged.

    False advertising, because you can not advertise or perform the task as termite inspector. Possible fine or loss of license as a home inspector for performing termite inspections under you home inspectors license. Reimbursement of additional fees to your client. No more referrals from any Realtor in the office you get bagged thru.

    The man up here stopped his advertisement to Realtors. I use to get his advertisement all the time and have not for some time. I would be curious why.

    Just my thoughts and opinions


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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    pay close attention to the term infestation. I don't see anywhere it says you can't inspect for termite activity,

    John,

    Yes, *you* need to pay *close attention* to the use of the term "INFESTATION".

    If there is any "activity", there is "infestation", thus, if you are looking for "activity" you are looking for "infestation".

    You can try to change the meanings, but when you go before the state board, any defense like that will likely result in the highest fines they are allowed to levy, instead of maybe thinking you were just 'uninformed' and spanking your hand with the lowest fines required.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Take this little snap shot of what you posted and concider it.


    "including" services performed as a part of the person's "employment":
    (1) identifying infestations or making inspections for the purpose of identifying or attempting to identify infestations of:

    I think that covers it to a T


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    Default Re: Working dogs

    As a Licensed Pest and Termite Company owner here in Texas, if you do any type of WDI inspection or identify any pest you have to have a State License to do so.

    If you have a dog and go out and do termite inspections with the dog, you have to have a license.

    As far as the termite dogs, I owned one back in the 80's and paid over 10K for the dog at the time. We charged 350. for the inspection with the dog back then.

    If you are not in the termite business, I don't you have the need for one. Reason is these dogs have to be worked with continously to help be efficient. You can't just keep one out in the yard either like a family pet.

    These dogs are trained to find active termites which are placed in a plastic ball and the is trained to find the ball as a hide and seek type game.

    I lost mine due to cancer. Would I own another? Probably not.

    To be honest with you I used to find termites that the dog would just walk right by. There has to be so many termites in an give area or the dog could miss them. Termites produce a methane type gas that the dog picks upon.

    Rick


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    But it is a doggy dog world


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Good feedback from all. No offense taken and hope none given. The feedback from people in my area even though all is appreciated, is what I was looking for.

    O.K termite dog is out, any feedback on the mold dogs?

    Yes, i know they require constant training and can die.


    In case some of you were wondering who John Watson is/was, he was Sherlock Holmes's assistant. Privacy protection


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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    O.K termite dog is out, any feedback on the mold dogs?
    Okay, Dr. Watson, ... why do you think you need a 'mold dog'?

    You, or anyone, can walk into any home and state, with 100% accuracy, 'Yep, you got mold in here.'

    Don't need a friggin' dog to do that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    It's more of want than need. I know of a plumber friend that takes his dog everywhere he goes and works. Customers don't mind, infact it leaves an impression. Here comes the wussy part. Inspecting all day by yourself is not like working with a crew or in an office. There's not much socializing going on, so I thought bring a little friend with me and make use of him. If he's cute enough, the girls will want to pet him allowing me to get a peek when their bent over.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Ah, the truth comes out.

    You want us to justify to you for you for your wife or girl friend the need for a $5,000.00 dollar dog.

    This dog better walk on two legs, look real good in high heels, speak English and not bark and better be deflead. Oh yeah, and not be harry or have drew ell coming out of her mouth.


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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    It's more of want than need. I know of a plumber friend that takes his dog everywhere he goes and works. Customers don't mind, infact it leaves an impression.
    If you went to any house I inspected, or even my house, *you would leave the dog in your truck*.

    Is that what you want to do with your dog?

    Dogs ARE very distracting, why on earth would you want to raise the level of distraction?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Ted, Jerry

    Justification is what we look for when we post questions here.

    Distraction? Of course.

    You guys' opinions, though noted were very general and you both sound like you spend much time here together tearing down instead of building.

    Rick Hurst was the only one here that claimed to have any experience with working dogs and sounded truthful. Ted and Jerry should not claim to know of something when they havne't been there nor done that. And If you have, too late to claim it now.

    I remember some other guy on this board actually looking up someone's license and credentials in their jurisdiction to use as criticism. Jerry and Ted sound retired or close to it. There's always someone 1 year older with one week of more experience that always claims to know more.

    The next time I post a question, I'll make sure to disclaim "experienced only please".


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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    The next time I post a question, I'll make sure to disclaim "experienced only please".
    John,

    Like it or not, this was your original question. I've highlighted with bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    I'm considering investing in a termite or mold sniffing dog. They cost around 5K here. I've heard from a termite inspector that certification or licensing is may not be required if the state form isn't used.

    Any opinions?
    Ted and I answered your question.

    *WE* did what *YOU* asked.


    And now you complain about it? Sheesh!

    No wonder you are not using your real name ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Cool Re: Working dogs

    and speaking of dogs......

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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post

    Justification is what we look for when we post questions here.

    ?????

    Maybe Dr. Phil has a ( Massage / Stroke My Self esteem ) online Chat room.


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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Wow! One guy ruffled a lot of feathers. I've read many of the posts and replies on this board, and most of the replies to questions are the same people replying to this one.

    When one sits at a table to converse, it's easier to explain because the point is taken quicker by body language and tone. This post was misread (my fault), then turned into something else and piled with more crap with each cheerleaded reply by yourselves.

    The negative replies to the question were never followed by solutions and ideas, or even positive energy.

    Like I said, I was hoping for feedback from someone experienced with this in my area (State), which I should have noted. Otherwise I don't care about what the laws say in another state. Copying and pasting pieces of my quotes to put spin on what I say rather than reading the whole thing is weak. There's other message boards that are much more constructive and waste less of my time than this one. I take that back...the inspectors on other message boards waste less of my time and are more constructive than this one.

    P.S This post will be spun and quoted too


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Watson View Post
    Wow! One guy ruffled a lot of feathers. I've read many of the posts and replies on this board, and most of the replies to questions are the same people replying to this one.

    When one sits at a table to converse, it's easier to explain because the point is taken quicker by body language and tone. This post was misread (my fault), then turned into something else and piled with more crap with each cheerleaded reply by yourselves.

    The negative replies to the question were never followed by solutions and ideas, or even positive energy.

    Like I said, I was hoping for feedback from someone experienced with this in my area (State), which I should have noted. Otherwise I don't care about what the laws say in another state. Copying and pasting pieces of my quotes to put spin on what I say rather than reading the whole thing is weak. There's other message boards that are much more constructive and waste less of my time than this one. I take that back...the inspectors on other message boards waste less of my time and are more constructive than this one.

    P.S This post will be spun and quoted too
    There you go John ( Complete Quote. )

    The purpose of the Message Board is for Inspectors to Learn from one another.

    There is a section for anyone that just wants to share an experience for fed back.

    If you want to contribute & perhaps learn Welcome.

    If want to Belly ache about not being Validated about a dubious business plan perhaps
    you could save your & our time.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    I'm considering investing in a termite or mold sniffing dog. They cost around 5K here. I've heard from a termite inspector that certification or licensing is may not be required if the state form isn't used.

    Any opinions?
    Wow! One guy ruffled a lot of feathers. I've read many of the posts and replies on this board, and most of the replies to questions are the same people replying to this one.

    When one sits at a table to converse, it's easier to explain because the point is taken quicker by body language and tone. This post was misread (my fault), then turned into something else and piled with more crap with each cheerleaded reply by yourselves.

    The negative replies to the question were never followed by solutions and ideas, or even positive energy.

    Like I said, I was hoping for feedback from someone experienced with this in my area (State), which I should have noted. Otherwise I don't care about what the laws say in another state. Copying and pasting pieces of my quotes to put spin on what I say rather than reading the whole thing is weak. There's other message boards that are much more constructive and waste less of my time than this one. I take that back...the inspectors on other message boards waste less of my time and are more constructive than this one.

    P.S This post will be spun and quoted too
    Elementary my dear Watson, elementary.
    You asked for an opinion and got it.
    When you did not like the opinions, you attacked both the message and the messenger.
    It is no wonder you use an alias, my dear Watson. Simply elementary (school that is)


    Jim Luttrall
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Working dogs

    John,

    You and others may find this interesting if considering getting into the PC / Termite business.

    This is a copy of the new proposals.

    rick

    Proposed Rules Title 4


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