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Thread: My county

  1. #1
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    Default My county

    Allegedly, this was a permitted installation.... I say 'allegedy' because it was just hear-say from the agent and the only permit sticker was on the meter base.... but it's most likely true. With how slow it is maybe I should start taking bribes like the county inspectors.

    What's the point of having a code, anyway?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: My county

    Well it is childproof, and just about anyone under 6 foot proof
    Mabey gomer cut all the wire ends 3 feet too short


  3. #3
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    Default Re: My county

    *IF* ...

    That's a 7' high ceiling ...

    And that door is really really short ...

    Then maybe ... (maybe?) ...

    That top breaker is within the 6' 7" height limitation?



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
    Shannon Guinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    *IF* ...

    That's a 7' high ceiling ...

    And that door is really really short ...

    Then maybe ... (maybe?) ...

    That top breaker is within the 6' 7" height limitation?


    That's a BIG IF Jerry. The two gang switch appears to be at "normal" mounting height of 48'', so by extrapolating............ (maybe), but I would believe that before believing the inspector was bribed.

    Which brings me (let me get up on my soap box) to point out that not all inspectors take bribes! (Sorry to have to lump this in with your quote Jerry as I haven't had time to multi-quote this one and my Irish blood is beginning to warm rapidly) I'm sure there are people in every occupation that are morally bankrupt, but I have a nasty habit of having to go to sleep every night. (I won't even accept an offer of a bottled water in the middle of July, just to be able to say I have never accepted even as much as that) and climbing back down from my soapbox.....blood cooling....there, much better.


  5. #5
    Richard Pultar's Avatar
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    Default Re: My county

    What's the point of having a code, anyway?
    in places of assembly , large buildings etc. homes built for sale...
    all but private homes should have safety issues addressed
    private homeowners should be able to decide for themselves what they
    will accept.
    if you don't like it don't buy it
    if your wife doesn't like it change it
    Issues that are in homes where people who know the house are involved
    don't need to be judged .
    lest you be judged


  6. #6
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: My county

    The NEC describes the height requirement as "not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 7 in.) above the floor or working platform..." (my bold)

    I can't find any definition in the NEC for that working platform. Would it have to be the same size as the working space, i.e. 30x36? Is it actually required to be permanent? Could it be stored nearby?

    Just curious. I realize that from an ideal safety point of view the breakers should be within reach, but I'm sure there are many height challenged folks out there who couldn't reach one at the "legal" 6'7".



  7. #7
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Shannon Guinn View Post
    That's a BIG IF Jerry. The two gang switch appears to be at "normal" mounting height of 48'', so by extrapolating............ (maybe), but I would believe that before believing the inspector was bribed.

    Which brings me (let me get up on my soap box) to point out that not all inspectors take bribes!
    Shannon,

    Don't like (edit: OOPS! "like" should have been "link") me to that 'taking bribes' part, *I* am one of the defenders of code inspectors stating that the vast majority DO NOT take bribes, they are just asked to be in too many places doing too many things at the same time.

    Now, the stories I could tell you about Miami-Dade county right after Hurricane Andrew ... nah ... we're not going to go there, that was 16 years ago and things are different now ... (price went up? ... just kidding)

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 11-18-2008 at 09:43 AM. Reason: see edit OOPS! above
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    What's the point of having a code, anyway?
    in places of assembly , large buildings etc. homes built for sale...
    all but private homes should have safety issues addressed
    private homeowners should be able to decide for themselves what they
    will accept.
    I totally agree, with one condition ... THAT THOSE HOME OWNERS *NEVER*, *EVER*, *NEVER* sell their homes to anyone else.

    There, NOW those idiots can whatever they want to do to their own families safety in their own homes.

    Can you imagine what would have to happen with they went to move for ANY REASON?

    Being as their homes COULD NOT be leased or sold to any other people, and no other families or people would be allowed to occupy those homes, the homes would have to be burned to the ground, so as to not be a safety hazard to other.

    Now, is that a lot cheaper than having to meet code or what?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Moore View Post
    The NEC describes the height requirement as "not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 7 in.) above the floor or working platform..."

    Richard,

    One of the reasons for the "working platform" is to allow for overcurrent devices to be located in areas 'other than at the floor', i.e., in commercial buildings, theaters, industrial places, etc., which may have the equipment accessible via cat walks or service platforms (still being "readily accessible") but not with would would be considered a "floor" at them.

    It also allows for the installation of a "platform" or similar flat surface to be used has the working space in front of electrical equipment located outdoors with sloping ground in front of the electrical equipment. One cannot be expected to stand on a sloping surface and expect that sloping surface "to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Shannon,

    Don't like me to that 'taking bribes' part, *I* am one of the defenders of code inspectors stating that the vast majority DO NOT take bribes, they are just asked to be in too many places doing too many things at the same time.

    Now, the stories I could tell you about Miami-Dade county right after Hurricane Andrew ... nah ... we're not going to go there, that was 16 years ago and things are different now ... (price went up? ... just kidding)

    Jerry, that's the reason I said "sorry to have to lump this in with your reply" I appreciate the fact that someone is out there helping to stem the tide against municipal inspectors, likewise, I take up for home inspectors as well. Since our county doesn't have COs or final building inspections (this is my head shaking...........) and all that we do have is a final electrical it should be expected that if a HI is brought in, if they are even worth 1/2 their salt, they should have no trouble at all finding a whole laundry list of violations and corrections to be made. Which is some of the complaints that I hear about HIs, that they always find something wrong. To which I usually reply, "well, since the county doesn't have final building inspections or COs, I assume that the HI is simply doing his job, conscientiously. So if work ever gets slack in Fla Jerry, give me a shout, this county of mine needs an enema.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Shannon Guinn View Post
    So if work ever gets slack in Fla Jerry, give me a shout, this county of mine needs an enema.
    Shannon,

    I looked up where Fannin County was (thinking it may be down by Brunswick area, which is just a long hop-skip-and-jump from here - just over 2-1/2 hour drive to Brunswick, that's how long it took to get that far when I was going up to Greenville, SC for inspections) and found that you were (Gulp!) up next to the Tennessee/Georgia line.

    I could have come up to the Brunswick area with my 2x4 ...

    Try this:

    From the 2006 IRC. (underlining is mine)
    - R104.1 General.The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in conformance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.

    Then this entire section (no need to post it all, then underline it all).
    - SECTION R109
    - - INSPECTIONS

    I.e., the building official does not have a choice, he/she *IS DIRECTED TO* enforce the code, including all inspections called for in the code. Granted, there should be many additional inspections than are stated in the code, but *at least enforcing the code* would require *at least* the inspections listed.


    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 11-18-2008 at 10:02 AM. Reason: speelin', etc.
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    What's the point of having a code, anyway?
    in places of assembly , large buildings etc. homes built for sale...
    all but private homes should have safety issues addressed
    private homeowners should be able to decide for themselves what they
    will accept.
    if you don't like it don't buy it
    if your wife doesn't like it change it
    Issues that are in homes where people who know the house are involved
    don't need to be judged .
    lest you be judged
    Hello Richard,

    You are kiddding??

    I understand the concept of your argument but it has many flaws. There are, no doubt certain codes that don't make sense. Perhaps even this one isn't the most important.

    However, codes (which are rooted in safety concepts) are not just written for the immediate occupant or the owners of the house. Other family members (like children) may have no say.

    Should a fire breaks out you have put children, elderly, guests, neighboring properties and firefighters at risk.

    It would be impossible for the codes to determine every possible situation and then decide which codes don't need to be applied. Codes do not just affect the occupant or the person who wanted something a certain way.

    You stated "all but private homes should have safety issues addressed
    private homeowners should be able to decide for themselves what they
    will accept."..... The homeowner does not likley have the knowledge and understanding to make that decision.

    Sincerely,

    Corey Friedman


  13. #13
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    Default Re: My county

    kidding a little..
    but it's times when I see a step risor 3 eights of a inch off and it forces a final co not to go thru and the mortgage commitment with it, and the guy has to pay another quarter point more over 30 years.
    it 's times when I see a footing dug thru 6 inches of concrete slab to put a temporary ramp.
    or when I see crawl space vents installed when there are openings to full basements. like when windows join additions.
    crawl space vent sized as if the condition was bare earth not plastic and rat slab.
    guys doing stuff cause cause its easier to roll over to some nut inspector then to ask for a code reference.
    I feel that if a issue is based on apperance or workmanship then fix it or live with it.
    Safty for the pubic, in places of assembly where crowds are unfamiliar with the space can never be compromised. But issues of a resident in familiar surroundings like a 9 inch step should be a personal choice.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: My county

    richard,
    you are a dangerous person! i just left a fire call where a landlord thought it was a good idea to spray great stuff foam on a heating duct that served a metal lined fireplace.a young family could have died had this happened at night. my nosey a$$ will condemn this install and require a licensed contractor and a permit to repair the damage and insure safety for the inhabitants.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    I feel that if a issue is based on apperance or workmanship then fix it or live with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by brian schmitt View Post
    richard,
    you are a dangerous person! i just left a fire call where a landlord thought it was a good idea to spray great stuff foam on a heating duct that served a metal lined fireplace.

    Brian,

    But ... but ... but ... did it LOOK good and was it done with good WORKMANSHIP?

    Bears repeating from Richards posts here: "richard, you are a dangerous person!"

    Think about what his clients are getting?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
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    Default Re: My county

    and exactly how does the stupidity of this action relate to the concerns of the the code to make sure houses with 30 year design lifespans relate?
    Hovanian makes houses wonderfully code compliant with a design base of 30 years.
    I thought it was nuts when I first heard about it. Then I see many examples of the disposable design standard. I see too many people thinking that the code proper house will last like the houses built before codes where the rage.
    I have no problem with a house built of alternative design standards. The problem with death in houses is cooking and smoking and crushed wires ,not if the house meets a standard generated be commercial pressures.
    I am more concerned with minimum energy demand standards than silly issues See .www.architecture2030.org/


  17. #17
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    Default Re: My county

    (underlining is mine)
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    and exactly how does the stupidity of this action relate to the concerns of the the code to make sure houses with 30 year design lifespans relate?
    Hovanian makes houses wonderfully code compliant with a design base of 30 years.
    I thought it was nuts when I first heard about it. Then I see many examples of the disposable design standard. I see too many people thinking that the code proper house will last like the houses built before codes where the rage.
    First, let me address your second statement: I inspected MANY K. Hovanian homes and NONE, repeat *NONE*, were "code compliant".

    Now let's take the underlined statement: I, and many others on this board, and many others elsewhere, stress time and time again that "code" = "minimum", that "code" *DOES NOT equal" "good", "better" or "best". That "code" is simply the absolute minimum lowest standard one is legally required to build.

    There, now, is a - as you say - "code compliant" house a "good house" *because* it is code compliant? One absolutely has nothing to do with the other. "Code" simply establishes the "minimum standard" for safety.


    I am more concerned with minimum energy demand standards than silly issues


    Well, no wonder you are such a danger to this profession, and likely to your clients! You are more concerned about saving energy than with safety, ... I guess I can see your point - you save enough energy with the energy part of the house and it pays for the cremation energy for those who died as a result of the unsafe part of the house ... Yeah, that's the right trade off.

    Are you sure you are not TM from Mustang, OK?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: My county

    what did you find with K hov


  19. #19
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    Default Re: My county

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    what did you find with K hov
    Electric, plumbing, trusses, HVAC, pools, drainage, etc., just to name a few things.

    In fact, it was a K. Hovanian house I was in telling my client and superintendent that the power bathroom did not have a receptacle outlet and that was required, the supt. then said a receptacle was NOT required in a power room, when, unbeknownst to me, the electrical inspector was there doing a final electrical and walked by the bathroom door just as the supt. said that.

    The electrical inspector stopped and asked me to repeat what I was pointing out, so I did, and the supt. then repeated that a receptacle was NOT required there. The electrical inspector said, yes, a receptacle WAS required there and he must have just missed it.

    The supt. (the dope) said 'Well, it is too late to put one in now.', to which the electrical inspector said 'Either put one in NOW, or you WILL BE going back and putting one in every house you've already finished and which I missed it.', the supt. called the electrician RIGHT THEN and told him to GET OVER HERE *RIGHT NOW*, the electrical inspector needs to talk to you - NOW!'

    Most times, things do not end on such a positive note as that with local code inspectors. But when they do ... I really liked days like that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  20. #20
    Shannon Guinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: My county

    Sometimes the icing on the cake is just sweet enough Jerry.


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