Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    John Stephenson's Avatar
    John Stephenson Guest

    Default Equipment ground connection

    Last edited by John Stephenson; 12-21-2007 at 08:43 AM.
    F.I.R.E. Services

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    3,177

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    It would "work" if it has a good connection and there is a panel bond.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  3. #3
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    As long as the bolt is screwed into a tapped hole the connection should be ok. This looks like a sheet metal screw so it would not be ok.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,317

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Define "work".

    Do you mean ... as in 'maybe, some or most of the time'?

    Do you mean ... 'well, kinda sorta, if everything makes contact'?

    Do you mean ... 'Umm, Dude, like, you know, IT'S BEEN THERE FOR YEARS, *of course* it "works"'?

    Or, do you mean ... as in 'What are you thinking, OF COURSE it will not work reliably when needed'?

    There are a lot of things which 'work' until tested under design conditions (like a high current ground fault), then they fail miserably.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Brian Hoagland's Avatar
    Brian Hoagland Guest

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Quote Originally Posted by John Stephenson View Post
    An individual equipment ground was "bonded" to the panel via a screw. I know this is wrong but would it work?
    Yes it will work. No it is not an approved connection. Call it as an improper grounding connection, Case closed.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,317

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hoagland View Post
    Yes it will work.
    Incorrect. It "MIGHT" work. There is no way to say for sure that it "will" work.

    No it is not an approved connection. Call it as an improper grounding connection,
    The reason you need to call it an improper connection is that it "MIGHT NOT" work, which is exactly why it is "improper".

    Case closed.
    NOW the case is closed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,317

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Brian,

    Don't take it personal, but it irritates the heck out of me to see someone say something totally incorrect as:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hoagland View Post
    Yes it will work.
    And then state:

    Case closed.
    As though that is the final answer. When in fact it is an incorrect answer.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Brian Hoagland's Avatar
    Brian Hoagland Guest

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Incorrect. It "MIGHT" work. There is no way to say for sure that it "will" work.



    The reason you need to call it an improper connection is that it "MIGHT NOT" work, which is exactly why it is "improper".



    NOW the case is closed.
    It will work, the reason why it needs to be noted is because it may not work in all the instances it is required to work because it has not been tested as installed. The case was closed because we identified the improper installation and reccommended remedial actions. I don't take it personally, I litterally don't give a crap, my point was that these types of observations are important to note in our reports as they may have consequences which are unpredictable. Read the original post again, you missed the point.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,317

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hoagland View Post
    It will work,
    the reason why it needs to be noted is because it may not work
    "It WILL ... " but " ... it MAY NOT ... " ?????

    You've lost me there.

    Read the original post again, you missed the point.
    No, I didn't miss your point, but it appears you missed mine.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Brian Hoagland's Avatar
    Brian Hoagland Guest

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    No Jerry while I respect your knowledge you do have a propensity for honing in on the inane and senseless. The point you missed was that the case is closed at the point at which the problem is properly identified as needing correction. Whether or not it may work at some levels and not at others isn't even germain to the conversation when the installation fails to meet manufacturers specs with regard to electrical components. Having said that I personally guarantee to you that at some point where a screw as seen in the photo, connected to a wire, screwed into the metal frame of the panel does consititute a ground, does work as a ground. (unless it is a wooden or plastic screw- it wasn't) But that don't make no nevermind as the installation is improper because it is not in accordance with the approved methodology. Nobody can predict if it will ever fail or at what level because no one has tested the connection with respect to this or any other aspect of the installation. That is why it is incorrect, inspectors should never care about whether it works if it isn't properly installed, especially with electrical components. I think we are both on the same side on this entire issue.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,317

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hoagland View Post
    Whether or not it may work at some levels and not at others isn't even germain to the conversation when the installation fails to meet manufacturers specs with regard to electrical components.
    Brian,

    It is germane to the conversation when you stated, and repeated, that "it works", when in fact it does not.

    at some point ... does work as a ground.
    Which is a far cry from "it works". In fact, it "MAY" work at some point, but it also "MAY NOT", and to tell people that "it works" when it 'MIGHT' 'under some conditions' 'but might not' is incorrect.

    And that is what I was, and still am, correcting.

    Plain and simply out "It does NOT work.", not in any reliable sense or t any degree one would want to place their life dependency on it.

    I think we are both on the same side on this entire issue.
    It is beginning to sound that way, as long as you don't come back and say 'but it works', because it does not - 'it might' ... but 'it might not' also.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
    Brian Hoagland's Avatar
    Brian Hoagland Guest

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Brian,

    It is germane to the conversation when you stated, and repeated, that "it works", when in fact it does not.



    Which is a far cry from "it works". In fact, it "MAY" work at some point, but it also "MAY NOT", and to tell people that "it works" when it 'MIGHT' 'under some conditions' 'but might not' is incorrect.

    And that is what I was, and still am, correcting.

    Plain and simply out "It does NOT work.", not in any reliable sense or t any degree one would want to place their life dependency on it.



    It is beginning to sound that way, as long as you don't come back and say 'but it works', because it does not - 'it might' ... but 'it might not' also.
    O.K. It may not work, I agree! Even if it appears to work it may fail at that crucial point where someones life counted on it. That is the reason this conversation although adversarial has some good merit. Now are we going put forth the case that in as much as the equipment has been altered by the addittion of ther screw and resulting hole that it requires replacement? I know there is a valid argument there, I would probably never make it though. I would simply state the defect required repair by a liscenced electrician.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Reno, Nv. - Now St. Louis, Mo.
    Posts
    369

    Default Re: Equipment ground connection

    Well connected, it would, IMO, be allowed. However, there is a specific prohibition for the use of 'sheet metal screws' for this purpose .... and I suspect that is such a screw.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •