Disconnect for wall oven

**Michael Thomas** · 01-05-2009, 07:20 AM

I understand that an appliance such as a in-wall electric resistance heater has to comply with the requirements of Article 424 (see for example Article 424: Fixed Electric Space Heating ).

But what about a cook top or wall oven wired directly to it's branch circuit without a plug?

Is it assumed that its ON/OFF switch meets the requirement by disconnecting all ungrounded conductors? Is there an exception for such appliances? Something else? Or does 424 fully apply in this case?

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Jeff Remas · 01-05-2009, 08:15 AM

424 has nothing to do with electric ovens or ranges.

Do you mean 422?

Jeff Remas · 01-05-2009, 08:20 AM

If you read 422.31(B) it is acceptable to use the circuit breaker as long as it is capable of being locked in the open position.

If the breaker is within sight of the appliance then it does not need to be of the lockable type.

**Michael Thomas** · 01-05-2009, 08:26 AM

Sorry, typo, that should be 422 (422-21 & 422-22, I think) I'm going to leave it as is so your comment makes sense to later readers.

First thing I'm unclear about is if a residential 240V hardwired cooktop or oven needs to meet the 50' / in sight / or lockout disconnect rule.

If not, why does it not apply?

**Michael Thomas** · 01-05-2009, 08:29 AM

(My above slipped by Jeff's second reply....)
______________

OK, so a hardwired cooktop or stove does require a beaker with a lockout provision if there is no other compliant disconnect?

**Jerry Peck** · 01-05-2009, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

If you read 422.31(B) it is acceptable to use the circuit breaker as long as it is capable of being locked in the open position.

If the breaker is within sight of the appliance then it does not need to be of the lockable type.

.

Also, there are, and have been, locking devices for breaker handles which can be removed from the breaker without a key (and without removing the dead front cover). The locking device must be of a type which is secured in place and cannot be removed (without removing the dead front cover). Some types of locking devices slipped over the breaker handles and locked in place, however, those could be removed easily, the code not states that the locking device must remain in place "with or without the lock installed", meaning those types of locking device are not allowed.

While, as Jeff said, "it is acceptable to use the circuit breaker as long as it is capable of being locked in the open position". I never put that in my report. I would write up the missing disconnect *at* the appliance and let the electrician install the disconnect there (unless a locking device was already installed at the breaker). If the electrician was not smart enough to know the code, let him put the disconnect in *at* the appliance. I have never liked those locking device, mainly because I have RARELY seen them used (I can recall 1 or 2 times seeing them used, versus 100s or 1000s of times seeing them not used - *to me* that makes it an unsafe disconnecting device, let them put a disconnect *at* the appliance).

Jeff may well disagree with me on that, hopefully not ... as they are not safe when *not used*, and most are *not used*.

Ted Menelly · 01-05-2009, 09:34 AM

Next question.

Who really writes up that a stove top or in cabinet oven if there is no lock out on the breaker?????????????????

Who writes it up if there is no lock out or disconnect at those appliances??????????????????????

I do not and believe it is unecessary (overkill)

Just my opinion.

Not to mention the electric connection is not accessable in most cases unless you pull the oven out of the cabinet. I don't ever pull an oven out or lift a cooktop. Does anyone here do that?

I would bet that 1 out of 10 inspectors MIGHT write it up???

Whats you opinions???

**Jerry Peck** · 01-05-2009, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Next question.

Who really writes up that a stove top or in cabinet oven if there is no lock out on the breaker?????????????????

Who writes it up if there is no lock out or disconnect at those appliances??????????????????????

.

I did.

(Presuming that you are referring to permanently wired installs, not cord and plug installs as the cord and plug serves as the disconnect.)

Maybe I was the only one in the 10?

In South Florida, there were probably 10-20 of us who I know DID write that up.

Ted Menelly · 01-05-2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

.

I did.

(Presuming that you are referring to permanently wired installs, not cord and plug installs as the cord and plug serves as the disconnect.)

Maybe I was the only one in the 10?

In South Florida, there were probably 10-20 of us who I know DID write that up.

Are you saying that you lifted all cook tops and slid all in cabinet ovens out ? If so you will be the first that has told me he has. Pull that oven out, let it slip, uh oh. Lift that cooktop (if the electric connection is not visible) it slips from you fingures and crashes onto that nice expensive counter top. In person, there has never been another inspector that said he does either. If you don't do that then how would one know of the connection.

Overkill. Just plane overkill.

**Jerry Peck** · 01-05-2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Are you saying that you lifted all cook tops and slid all in cabinet ovens out ?

.

That's not what you asked.

You asked:

Next question.

Who really writes up that a stove top or in cabinet oven if there is no lock out on the breaker?????????????????

Who writes it up if there is no lock out or disconnect at those appliances??????????????????????

It is one thing to pull out a built-in oven (which is not what you asked) and another thing to write it up when you see it permanently wired with no cord and plug and no disconnect (which IS what you asked about - WRITING them up).

Cooktops are almost always visible.

**Michael Thomas** · 01-05-2009, 11:11 AM

Well, this brings up a more general question: how to report any sort of appliance which may require a compliant disconnect, when its not readily possible to tell if it has one.

For example:

1) Wall oven: when you can't readily tell if it's plug connected or hard wired.

2) In-wall resistance space-heater: when you can't readily tell if the on/off switch disconnects all un-grounded conductors.

I now realize that I've not really though this through, or heard it thought through by others, for example I don't think anyone here would decline to report a missing disconnect at an AC condenser unit....

Ted Menelly · 01-05-2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

.

That's not what you asked.

You asked:

It is one thing to pull out a built-in oven (which is not what you asked) and another thing to write it up when you see it permanently wired with no cord and plug and no disconnect (which IS what you asked about - WRITING them up).

Cooktops are almost always visible.

I kind of asked

"Not to mention the electric connection is not accessable in most cases unless you pull the oven out of the cabinet. I don't ever pull an oven out or lift a cooktop. Does anyone here do that?"

**Jerry Peck** · 01-05-2009, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

I kind of asked

"Not to mention the electric connection is not accessible in most cases unless you pull the oven out of the cabinet. I don't ever pull an oven out or lift a cooktop. Does anyone here do that?"

.

Kinda not really ... you are more than just kinda stretching it ...

You asked the question I quoted in my post and that was the question which I replied to, I even quoted the question.

*Then* you asked a different follow-up question, which I did not include in my post and to which I did not respond to.

I did not respond to that as BOTH of those appliances are required to be anchored in place, and THAT I did check, and did write up if not anchored in place, but ... "removing them when they were anchored in place", no, that would be nonsensical, that's like asking "does anyone remove the cabinets to see if they are mounted to backing"?