Thread: 20 receptacle connection

Is this legal?

If no, Can you reference the code "section-paragraph" that it violates?

a 20A receptacle, wired with 14ga wire. The circuit is protected with a 15 amp breaker. Also, are the connectors OK for romex?

Thanks

Similar Threads:

• 3-wire dryer receptacle outlet
• Help needed with ID of receptacle
• Receptacle for refrigerator
• condensate drain connection
• NM liquid Tight to EMT connection

Only 15 amp receptacles can be on a 15 amp circuit 210.21 and Table 210.21(B)(3).

The connectors look like they are for MC or AC cable --it this is the case it would not be approved for NM cable per the UL listing and 110.3(B).

And the receptacle is not properly mounted onto the cover. 2 more screws with nuts are missing.

Originally Posted by Roland Miller

Only 15 amp receptacles can be on a 15 amp circuit 210.21 and Table 210.21(B)(3).

That depends.
- 210.21 Outlet Devices.
- - (B) Receptacles.
- - - (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
- - - - (there are some exceptions, none of which are applicable to this question)
- - - (2) Total Cord-and-Plug-Connected Load. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, a receptacle shall not supply a total cord-and-plug-connected load in excess of the maximum specified in Table 210.21(B)(2).
- - - (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50 amperes, the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating.
- - - - (there are some exceptions, none of which are applicable to this question)

Thus, "that depends" on how many receptacles are on that circuit.

If there is only one receptacle on that circuit, you can use (1) which only requires "A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."

IF there are two or more receptacles on that circuit, you use (3) which requires " the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating." AND the rating in Table 210.21(B)(3) - which states that a 15 amp circuit may not have more than 15 amp rated receptacles on it.

You still can only use 15 amp receptacles on a 15 amp circuit--not matter the number or are duplex.

So many words--so little time

Originally Posted by Roland Miller

You still can only use 15 amp receptacles on a 15 amp circuit--not matter the number or are duplex.

So many words--so little time

Read that again, this time pay attention to what it actually says, especially the part about how many receptacles on the circuit the section applies to ... or ... more importantly *does not* apply to.

I am a person of few words--Jerry, you are not correct on this one!!

Why would there be an upper limit on a part of a circuit??
Seems counter intuitive, like saying you can't use 12AWG wire when 14 will do. The 15 amp breaker limits the ampacity of the circuit, what possible danger would be present using a component with a higher rating?

Originally Posted by Roland Miller

I am a person of few words--

I can be a person of few words too --- READ IT!

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

That depends.
- 210.21 Outlet Devices.
- - (B) Receptacles.
- - - (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
- - - (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50 amperes, the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating.

Lets try this one more time from the other end of the horse. A 20 amp receptacle, duplex or other wise, is not permitted on a 15 amp circuit.

You don't appear to be reading this section correctly...

Originally Posted by Roland Miller

Lets try this one more time from the other end of the horse. A 20 amp receptacle, duplex or other wise, is not permitted on a 15 amp circuit.

You don't appear to be reading this section correctly...

Why??

Originally Posted by Roland Miller

Lets try this one more time from the other end of the horse. A 20 amp receptacle, duplex or other wise, is not permitted on a 15 amp circuit.

You don't appear to be reading this section correctly...

You apparently are looking up the back end of the horse, thinking you are checking out its mouth ... read that code section ... the one which applies to ONE receptacle on ONE circuit ... and where it requires ... what was it now ... oh yeah ... "A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."

Now, to complete the lesson, go back and read the section you are applying, which includes that table, and see what it applies to ... "Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets" ... now ... here is the hard part - are you ready ... what does that mean it *DOES NOT* apply to?

"A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."

BINGO! We have a winner.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Why would there be an upper limit on a part of a circuit??
Seems counter intuitive, like saying you can't use 12AWG wire when 14 will do. The 15 amp breaker limits the ampacity of the circuit, what possible danger would be present using a component with a higher rating?

Jim,

Because "the rating of the branch circuit" is the rating on the overcurrent device.

Let's say you have a 20 amp breaker, with a 15 amp rated receptacle on it. The 15 amp receptacle could 'burn up' long before the 20 amp breaker trips.

That does not mean you cannot install #10 wire for the circuit conductors, or that you *have to* plug in a 20 amp load. Only *that if* a 20 amp load is plugged, the receptacle must be rated to take it as the breaker is rated to take it before the breaker trips.

Well Jerry--you are wrong and in this case causing an electrical safety issue so you need to back off and get back to the books on this one.

The reason is appliances that require a 20 amp circuit and therefore have a 20 amp configuration on the cord draw more then 15 amps. That is part of the reason the neutral is at 90 degrees to the hot on these cords. The NEC purposely excluded this combination because it is a guaranteed overload condition for the 15 amp circuit.

Jim,

I forgot to include this:

If you had a 30 amp receptacle on that 20 amp circuit (which would meet the code requirements), the 20 amp breaker would trip before the 30 amp receptacle, and whatever was plugged into it, could cause a problem.

Yeah, I know, no one is going to install a 30 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit, but ... the same reasoning applies to a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit.

Keeping in mind that (and this is what Roland keeps missing, he is too closed minded to think it out) this only covers a *single receptacle* on a *single circuit*, meaning that there are no other loads on that circuit - just whatever is plugged into the single receptacle.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Jim,

Because "the rating of the branch circuit" is the rating on the overcurrent device.

Let's say you have a 20 amp breaker, with a 15 amp rated receptacle on it. The 15 amp receptacle could 'burn up' long before the 20 amp breaker trips.

That does not mean you cannot install #10 wire for the circuit conductors, or that you *have to* plug in a 20 amp load. Only *that if* a 20 amp load is plugged, the receptacle must be rated to take it as the breaker is rated to take it before the breaker trips.

Exactly... so what harm is there for a 20 amp rated receptacle (not load) installed in a 15 amp circuit? The breaker will trip at 15 with no harm to anything.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Exactly... so what harm is there for a 20 amp rated receptacle (not load) installed in a 15 amp circuit? The breaker will trip at 15 with no harm to anything.

It has been a long day so I did not double check this first but I believe it is right.

Most breakers are designed to trip at a max of 30% over what the breaker is rated at.

As to your point I find absolutely nothing wrong with a 20 amp outlet being on a fifteen amp protected service. The only concern is if you are plugging items in and the start up over that fifteen amp breaker. Then you will be doing nothing but constantly tripping the breaker.

"AND the rating in Table 210.21(B)(3) - which states that a 15 amp circuit may not have more than 15 amp rated receptacles on it." Your own words Jerry. You can't have it both ways.

Jerry, you cannot put a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit. Do you agree with that. Yes or no? Please don't post code, just answer so we can get farther along with understanding the situation.

The receptacle rating in amperes must not exceed 15 amperes when the circuit rating in amperes is 15. See row 1 of Table 210.21(B)(3) 2008NEC; 2005 NEC;2002NEC or Table E3602.13.

Ken,

I agree with Jerry. The difference is how many receptacles/outlets are on the circuit. If you have a single receptacle on an individual branch circuit you can have a 20 amp receptacle a 14g wire and a 15 amp circuit breaker. If you have 2 or more receptacles/outlets on a branch circuit then your receptacle rating and wire and circuit breaker would basically match - 20 amp recptacle 12g wire 20 amp circuit breaker. That is how I read the code.

Originally Posted by Bob Spermo

Ken,

I agree with Jerry. The difference is how many receptacles/outlets are on the circuit. If you have a single receptacle on an individual branch circuit you can have a 20 amp receptacle a 14g wire and a 15 amp circuit breaker. If you have 2 or more receptacles/outlets on a branch circuit then your receptacle rating and wire and circuit breaker would basically match - 20 amp recptacle 12g wire 20 amp circuit breaker. That is how I read the code.

Now this I agree with. We are now talking single receptacles, not duplex receptacles which is the difference. For those IRC guys 3902.1 and 3902.1.2 including the table applies. No one has clarified themselves this clearly until now.

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

And the receptacle is not properly mounted onto the cover. 2 more screws with nuts are missing.

Jeff--Thanks for catching this. I completely missed it. Too much old school where the single screw was all that was required.

Single or duplex receptacle don't make a difference (NEC always rules if adopted) on a 15 amp circuit you can only put 15 amp receptacles.

Originally Posted by Bob Spermo

Ken,

......... If you have a single receptacle on an individual branch circuit you can have a 20 amp receptacle a 14g wire and a 15 amp circuit breaker. ....................

Take a look at Table 210.24 column 2. Circuit rating 15 ampere. Maximum receptacle rating 15 amperes. What you're saying flies in the face of the code.

Roland, I am too lazy to run down to my truck for the 05 book (we are not up to 2008 yet) so I am looking in my 2002.

The NEC matches the IRC on this one and they are very clear if you read 210.21(B)(3) "...........two or more receptacles or outlets..." that is when Table 210.21(B)(3) comes into play.

Makes no sense but it is what it is.

No reason to false advertise a 15A circuit with a 20A receptacle that will be able to cord connect an appliance that had a 20A plug on it.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, a single receptacle is allowed.

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

Now this I agree with. We are now talking single receptacles, not duplex receptacles which is the difference. For those IRC guys 3902.1 and 3902.1.2 including the table applies. No one has clarified themselves this clearly until now.

Take a close look at the Table 3902.1.2 and note that on column 1 a 20 ampere circuit is permitted to have 15 or 20 amp receptacles on it. But note that a 15 ampere circuit is not permitted to have a 20 ampere receptacle.

Originally Posted by Fred Warner

Take a look at Table 210.24 column 2. Circuit rating 15 ampere. Maximum receptacle rating 15 amperes. What you're saying flies in the face of the code.

Fred, 210.24 is for "......two or more outlets or receptacles..." not a single receptacle only on a branch circuit.

I get it now after the twentieth time reading it-- maybe this is what Jerry was trying to tell me?? Thanks Jeff.. Table 210.21(B)(3) doesn't have anything to do with (A)....

But since this is a duplex the table still applies.. Amazing. I think I was too focused on the picture with the duplex receptacle...

Yeah, the photo is full of violations for all of the reasons already mentioned. Somewhere, someone got off track with a single receptacle therefore confusing the pretty straightforward topic with a photo.

Gotta love thread drift.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

That depends.
- 210.21 Outlet Devices.
- - (B) Receptacles.
- - - (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
- - - - (there are some exceptions, none of which are applicable to this question)
- - - (2) Total Cord-and-Plug-Connected Load. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, a receptacle shall not supply a total cord-and-plug-connected load in excess of the maximum specified in Table 210.21(B)(2).
- - - (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50 amperes, the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating.
- - - - (there are some exceptions, none of which are applicable to this question)

Thus, "that depends" on how many receptacles are on that circuit.

If there is only one receptacle on that circuit, you can use (1) which only requires "A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."

IF there are two or more receptacles on that circuit, you use (3) which requires " the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating." AND the rating in Table 210.21(B)(3) - which states that a 15 amp circuit may not have more than 15 amp rated receptacles on it.

So if the 15 amp ckt. for the microwave has a single receptacle, it can have a 20, 30, 50 amp. receptacle. But if it has a duplex outlet it must not be greater than 15amp. Ridiculous.

I contend that, as hard as it may be to believe, it is harder to write technical manuals etc. than it is to read and interpret. This appeares to be a failure in the writting.

Because we are not code inspectors we don't have to interpret and can in this case apply logic.

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

Fred, 210.24 is for "......two or more outlets or receptacles..." not a single receptacle only on a branch circuit.

The photo shown by the OP is of a duplex 20 amp receptacle. According to Table E3902.1.2 ; Table 210.21(B)(2) and Table 210.21(B)(3), this 20 amp-rated duplex receptacle can not be on a 15 ampere circuit.

Originally Posted by Fred Warner

The photo shown by the OP is of a duplex 20 amp receptacle. According to Table E3902.1.2 ; Table 210.21(B)(2) and Table 210.21(B)(3), this 20 amp-rated duplex receptacle can not be on a 15 ampere circuit.

You are correct, it is not a single receptacle. that is what we have been discussing the past few posts.

I should have quit with my first answer which was correct.

I admit it --I derailed this thread by including single and duplex receptacles

I've read carefully back over this thread, determined where it was derailed. I guess I should read each thread everytime I add new posts. Anyway, sorry to Bob Spermo for not noticing you were talking about a single receptacle. I agree with Jerry Peck's early post which was posted yesterday at 5;47 P.M.

Originally Posted by Fred Warner

The receptacle rating in amperes must not exceed 15 amperes when the circuit rating in amperes is 15. See row 1 of Table 210.21(B)(3) 2008NEC; 2005 NEC;2002NEC or Table E3602.13.

Fred,

To best answer what you are answering, you should post what Table 210.21(B)(3) applies to.

You will find that answer in:
- 210.21 Outlet Devices
- - (B) Receptacles
- - - (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50 amperes, the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating.

Do you see what that table applies to, and ONLY what that table applies to?

Then, to answer what I said correctly, you must go back to:
- 210.21 Outlet Devices.
- - (B) Receptacles.
- - - (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

Okay, now, what is the real answer, given what is applicable and what is not applicable to that part of what I said?

Hint: You can put a 30 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit. The code does not address stupidity.

Jeff,

Go back and read those posts, I've already answered your question several times in my posts above.

There are two conditions being discussed:

1) A single receptacle on a single circuit.

2) Two or more receptacle on a single circuit.

*THOSE TWO CONDITIONS HAVE DIFFERENT ANSWERS.*

Oops...

Fred,

You replied while I was typing ...

I saw your post after I posted my post above - which can now be ignored.

Originally Posted by Fred Warner

The photo shown by the OP is of a duplex 20 amp receptacle. According to Table E3902.1.2 ; Table 210.21(B)(2) and Table 210.21(B)(3), this 20 amp-rated duplex receptacle can not be on a 15 ampere circuit.

Correct!

However, before I could swing around the ranch and corral all the cattle back up and point that out, Roland had panicked and ... well, I spent my posts above trying to correct his panic.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Fred,

To best answer what you are answering, you should post what Table 210.21(B)(3) applies to.

You will find that answer in:
- 210.21 Outlet Devices
- - (B) Receptacles
- - - (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50 amperes, the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating.

Do you see what that table applies to, and ONLY what that table applies to?

Then, to answer what I said correctly, you must go back to:
- 210.21 Outlet Devices.
- - (B) Receptacles.
- - - (1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

Okay, now, what is the real answer, given what is applicable and what is not applicable to that part of what I said?

Hint: You can put a 30 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit. The code does not address stupidity.

Jeff,

...........*

at the risk of sounding monotonous, which btw this thread is becoming, I already am familiar with the Tables and what they apply to. What I am not familiar with is the thread intermittently alternating from one type of receptacle to another. I will read each thread much more carefully from now on. I have chosen my responses to the OP and they apply to duplex (and triplex) receptacles only, not simplex.

Originally Posted by Fred Warner

What I am not familiar with is the thread intermittently alternating from one type of receptacle to another.

Fred,

Hang around here long enough and you will see that many threads start out in one direction, branch out into another based on something someone says, that gets discussed, sometimes something entirely out of the blue is mentioned and that gets discussed (often leading to much useful information), then, eventually, if needed, the thread ends back up discussing what was first asked.

I have chosen my responses to the OP and they apply to duplex (and triplex) receptacles only, not simplex.

And I completely agree with you on that.

I believe this subject is figured out and fully covered.

Jeff,

Posting code means nothing without knowing what code it is from and what edition of that code.

Also, when posting code, it is best to not just post pages and pages of code but to limit that code to what is applicable.

That is unless you just like posting code ... then go for it dude (note, though, that it does use up Brian's server memory quicker when excess code is posted).

Understood post

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

R102.7 Existing structures. The legal occupancy of any structure
existing on the date of adoption of this code shall be permitted
to continue without change, except as is specifically
covered in this code, the International Property Maintenance
Code or the International Fire Code, or as is deemed necessary
by the building official for the general safety and welfare of the
occupants and the public.

Huh???

Oh ... I get it ... dueling code sections!



ARTICLE 215 -- FEEDERS
215-1. Scope.
This article covers the installation requirements and minimum size and ampacity of conductors for feeders supplying branch-circuit loads as computed in accordance with Article 220.
Exception: Feeders for electrolytic cells as covered in Section 668-3(c), Exception Nos. 1 and 4.
215-2. Minimum Rating and Size.
Feeder conductors shall have an ampacity not less than required to supply the load as computed in Parts B, C, and D of Article 220. The minimum sizes shall be as specified in (a) and (b) below under the conditions stipulated. Feeder conductors for a dwelling unit or a mobile home need not be larger than service-entrance conductors. Article 310, Note 3, Notes to Ampacity Tables of 0 to 2000 Volts, shall be permitted to be used for conductor size.
(a) For Specified Circuits. The ampacity of feeder conductors shall not be less than 30 amperes where the load supplied consists of any of the following number and types of circuits: (1) two or more 2-wire branch circuits supplied by a 2-wire feeder; (2) more than two 2-wire branch circuits supplied by a 3-wire feeder; (3) two or more 3-wire branch circuits supplied by a 3-wire feeder; or (4) two or more 4-wire branch circuits supplied by a 3-phase, 4-wire feeder.
(b) Ampacity Relative to Service-Entrance Conductors. The feeder conductor ampacity shall not be less than that of the service-entrance conductors where the feeder conductors carry the total load supplied by service-entrance conductors with an ampacity of 55 amperes or less.
(FPN No. 1): See Examples 1 through 10 in Chapter 9.
(FPN No. 2): Conductors for feeders as defined in Article 100, sized to prevent a voltage drop exceeding 3 percent at the farthest outlet of power, heating, and lighting loads, or combinations of such loads, and where the maximum total voltage drop on both feeders and branch circuits to the farthest outlet does not exceed 5 percent, will provide reasonable efficiency of operation.
(FPN No. 3): See Section 210-19(a) for voltage drop for branch circuits.
215-3. Overcurrent Protection.
Feeders shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with the provisions of Part A of Article 240.
215-4. Feeders with Common Neutral.
(a) Feeders with Common Neutral. Feeders containing a common neutral shall be permitted to supply two or three sets of 3-wire feeders, or two sets of 4-wire or 5-wire feeders.
(b) In Metal Raceway or Enclosure. Where installed in a metal raceway or other metal enclosure, all conductors of all feeders using a common neutral shall be enclosed within the same raceway or other enclosure as required in Section 300-20.
215-5. Diagrams of Feeders.
If required by the authority having jurisdiction, a diagram showing feeder details shall be provided prior to the installation of the feeders. Such a diagram shall show the area in square feet of the building or other structure supplied by each feeder, the total connected load before applying demand factors, the demand factors used, the computed load after applying demand factors, and the size and type of conductors to be used.
215-6. Feeder Conductor Grounding Means.
Where a feeder supplies branch circuits in which equipment grounding conductors are required, the feeder shall include or provide a grounding means in accordance with the provisions of Section 250-57 to which the equipment grounding conductors of the branch circuits shall be connected.
215-7. Ungrounded Conductors Tapped from Grounded Systems.
Two-wire dc circuits and ac circuits of two or more ungrounded conductors shall be permitted to be tapped from the ungrounded conductors of circuits having a grounded neutral conductor. Switching devices in each tapped circuit shall have a pole in each ungrounded conductor.
215-8. Means of Identifying Conductor with the Higher Voltage to Ground.
On a 4-wire, delta-connected secondary where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded to supply lighting and similar loads, the phase conductor having the higher voltage to ground shall be identified by an outer finish that is orange in color or by tagging or other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present.
215-9. Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.
Feeders supplying 15- and 20-ampere receptacle branch circuits shall be permitted to be protected by a ground-fault circuit-interrupter in lieu of the provisions for such interrupters as specified in Section 210-8 and Article 305.
215-10. Ground-Fault Protection of Equipment.
Ground-fault protection of equipment as specified by Section 230-95 shall be provided for a feeder disconnect rated 1000 amperes or more in a solidly grounded wye system with greater than 150 volts to ground, but not exceeding 600 volts phase-to-phase.
Exception: Feeder ground-fault protection of equipment shall not be required where ground-fault protection of equipment is provided on the supply side of the feeder.
215-11. Circuits Derived from Autotransformers.
Feeders shall not be derived from autotransformers unless the system supplied has a grounded conductor that is electrically connected to a grounded conductor of the system supplying the autotransformer.
Exception No. 1: An autotransformer shall be permitted to extend or add a feeder for equipment loads without the connection to a similar grounded conductor when transforming from a nominal 208 volts to a nominal 240-volt supply or similarly from 240 volts to 208 volts.
Exception No. 2: In industrial occupancies, where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation, autotransformers shall be permitted to supply nominal 600-volt loads from nominal 480-volt systems, and 480-volt loads from nominal 600-volt systems, without the connection to a similar grounded conductor.



Jeff, you da man in posting code sections with no meaning, so I'll let you keep doing so ... the above was jus' fer funnzies fer me, no desire to do it again.

I must admit, I am now wondering what kind of forum I may have stumbled in on.

Fred,

It is a good and informative board where we all learn from each other.

There are occasional lapses from that, but by and large that's what this board is.

Stick around, learn and teach (or teach and learn - your preference), have some fun now and then, you will get accustomed to the different personalities (or lack there of) here.

There are some brilliant people here whom I learn a lot from and some rip-off artists who insist that anything and everything you want to do is okay, code or no code.

Stick around, you'll like it, it grows on you.

Originally Posted by Fred Warner

I must admit, I am now wondering what kind of forum I may have stumbled in on.

Fred--everyone that posts on this forum knows something. It is sometimes confusing to figure out what they know. For me, Jerry has me going from 0 to confused in 2.7 seconds. And Jeff sorts things out really well. Both are excellent at code questions. Jerry knows he needs a faster horse and Jeff is supplying the boxing gloves. But stick it out and don't be afraid to jump in cause that is how we all learn..

Welcome to the forum, Roland

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. This 2006 International Residential Code® for One- and Two-family Dwell ings is a copyrighted work owned by the International Code Council, Inc. With out advance written per mission from the copyright owner, no part of this book may be reproduced, distributed, or transmitted in any form or by any means, including, with out limitation, electronic, optical or
mechanical means (by way of example and not limitation, photocopying, or recording by or in an information storage retrieval system).

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

I believe this subject is figured out and fully covered.

I agree and I learned something..

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. This 2006 International Residential Code® for One- and Two-family Dwell ings is a copyrighted work owned by the International Code Council, Inc. With out advance written per mission from the copyright owner, no part of this book may be reproduced, distributed, or transmitted in any form or by any means, including, with out limitation, electronic, optical or
mechanical means (by way of example and not limitation, photocopying, or recording by or in an information storage retrieval system).

With "Fair Use" exceptions.

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

For a published writing that is suppose to and should be quoted in regards to the code I think it negates any copy rights at all for that purpose, electronically or otherwise.

The old read me but do not copy me is debunked all together.

Well, let's look at this from a practical point of view.

If you have 20 amp pattern receptacles, someone might plug in a 20 amp appliance .... and, with #14 wire, you're in violation if you have a 20 amp breaker.

The connectors are not - I am confident in saying this - listed for use with romex. Note that single-cable connectors often are, though.

Originally Posted by Roland Miller

Fred--everyone that posts on this forum knows something. It is sometimes confusing to figure out what they know. For me, Jerry has me going from 0 to confused in 2.7 seconds. And Jeff sorts things out really well. Both are excellent at code questions. Jerry knows he needs a faster horse and Jeff is supplying the boxing gloves. But stick it out and don't be afraid to jump in cause that is how we all learn..

Welcome to the forum, Roland

Thank you Roland. My apologies for just now reading your post.

Hey--no problem and a very sincere "welcome" .. There are several very strong personalities here and we all think we are right even when we are sometimes wrong. The difference is being able to admit it. And I am still working on that

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Why would there be an upper limit on a part of a circuit??
Seems counter intuitive, like saying you can't use 12AWG wire when 14 will do. The 15 amp breaker limits the ampacity of the circuit, what possible danger would be present using a component with a higher rating?

20 amp outlets are designed to indicate a 20amp circuit.

Jim

Originally Posted by Jim Bunton

20 amp outlets are designed to indicate a 20amp circuit.

Originally Posted by Jim Bunton

Jim

Twenty amp receptacles are not required on 20 amp circuits if there is more than one place to plug into.