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  1. #1
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    Default DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    hey all

    may be calling it wrong--but looks like duplex outlet--but why is in in family room--maybe i'm way off but whta is it, and why in family room

    thanks

    charlie

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  2. #2
    Fred Warner's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Maybe it's a special 125-volt 20 ampere 2-pole, 3-wire, grounding type receptacle used for an air conditioner or some other appliance.


  3. #3

    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Sounds like an odd place for a tanning bed, but?

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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    My thought was similar to Fred's - a room air conditioner.

    Certainly looks "added later on", being lower than the one on the right and with the drywall saw oops! cuts above the plate.

    If they pulled a new wire, you can bet they drilled holes through someplace (top plate, bottom plate, etc.) which did not get sealed as they should have been.

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  5. #5
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Warner View Post
    Maybe it's a special 125-volt 20 ampere 2-pole, 3-wire, grounding type receptacle used for an air conditioner or some other appliance.
    I think Fred meant 240-volt, 20-amp, etc....'cos that's what it is (or should be).


  6. #6
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My thought was similar to Fred's - a room air conditioner.

    Certainly looks "added later on", being lower than the one on the right and with the drywall saw oops! cuts above the plate.

    If they pulled a new wire, you can bet they drilled holes through someplace (top plate, bottom plate, etc.) which did not get sealed as they should have been.
    As absolutely zero added wire/rewire job anywhere. Old two prong recps added and a ground wire looping them all will have drilled holes everywhere.

    I guess we just live in a not so perfect world.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    TED

    no offence--but what did that all mean--what is it or what did you say

    charlie


  8. #8
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Jerry was talking about drilling a hole in the top or bottom plate to run the wire for that receptacle. He says (as it should be) that the drilled hole for the wire should be caulked to seal it off when running thru the top or bottom plate.

    I just made the comment that it is not a perfect world and usually nobody caulks holes in the top and bottom plate when running new wires.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    TED
    OH! ----KNOW WHAT THE OUTLET IS??
    CHAZ


  10. #10
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Jerry was talking about drilling a hole in the top or bottom plate to run the wire for that receptacle. He says (as it should be) that the drilled hole for the wire should be caulked to seal it off when running thru the top or bottom plate.

    I just made the comment that it is not a perfect world and usually nobody caulks holes in the top and bottom plate when running new wires.
    Ted,

    I made that same comment too - that usually no one seals the holes up. (underlining has been added)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    If they pulled a new wire, you can bet they drilled holes through someplace (top plate, bottom plate, etc.) which did not get sealed as they should have been.


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  11. #11
    Jeff Remas's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    I will take some heat for this but I don't care since I know others are thinking the same thing.

    What bothers me is that a working home inspector actually asked this question.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    jeff

    all home inspectors work i hope or my question wouldn't have come up--we all don't know everything as you alledge you do--so just wanted to ask and --excusssee me

    charlie


  13. #13
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    It's a nema 6-20R, 250 volt, 2 pole, 3 wire receptacle. Pretty standard for a larger size room airconditioner..

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

  14. #14
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    thanks roland

    we don't see many of those things here in colorado--either evaporative coolers or central ac, or tiny room 120 window plug in's
    thats what i needed, sorry i'm a working dummy
    charlie


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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Any time--There are only two people on this forum that know everything. And I am not one of them today.

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

  16. #16
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Miller View Post
    Any time--There are only two people on this forum that know everything. And I am not one of them today.

    Roland,

    I would like to meet those two people, but now I'm confused ... who is taking your place today? So ... does that mean there three people?



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  17. #17
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    I certainly don't know everything nor do I claim to but there are certainly questions that are asked by working inspectors that should already be known before you have a job inspecting and that was certainly one of them.

    There are basic, simple questions and there are more involved technical questions that need clarification because they are not everyday occurrences.

    It is my opinion that a simple receptacle such as that one is basic knowledge that should be known from experience or proper training.

    Again, I don't know or even claim to know everything but I will speak my mind on certain subjects that I am concerned about. This being one of them.

    If you don't like it then that is your problem to deal with, not mine. Time to learn more about your industry and until you learn more you will be keeping this business an industry rather than a profession.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Jeff

    There are certain ways of saying things or not saying things.

    The way you put your comment was , well, maybe not the best way.

    The man asked a question because he never came across the particular item before. Whether he should have known what it was or not is not the question.

    I think the question that should have been asked........ was. The other question is. Is he trying to learn by asking the question, yes.

    Why do the embarrasment thing when completely not necessary.

    As far as studying up. He is. That is what he was doing. Now that he knows he will check it out so he is familiar with it.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    jeff

    what ever, still sounds like you think you know everything about everything in every condition. and have never asked a question about something you have never seen in every state and in every subject, but i doudt that, so-- don't be so critical and just be helpful. that is what this web is all about, sometimes even you have skid marks in your skivves

    always helpfull
    charlie


  20. #20
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    ted
    again thanks to all--moving on, moving on to another inspection tomorrow, this is a great web and proud to be a part of it , with input and holy cow help, and thanks for that help, thanks you too jeff

    charlie


  21. #21
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    My apologies Charlie if I have offended you. I have no control over your perception of my intention. And for the 3rd time, I do not know nor do I claim to know everything. I certainly don't and learn something new every day due to my own research. Yours and everyone elses perception of my intention is beyond my control.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    jeff

    it is 10pm here in beautiful colorado--you should be sleeping for your inspection tomorrow if you have one--sorry for that.
    your perception was critical and offensive. you have control over your words and should re-think them before you send them, that is what we all should do before we send something on this web

    we are sharing this web when we come across something we don't see daily, simple to some and naked to others -let that be your lesson. i am sure there are things here in the mountains that we inspect that are greek to you, so be respectful and add constructive advice and not destuctive .
    if you want me to test you let me know

    have a great year and hope we have all learned a little more tonight

    charlie


  23. #23
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Remas View Post
    I do not know nor do I claim to know everything.

    Maybe that is truly what you think, but you certainly seem to think that anyone who does not know what you know should not be inspecting.

    I am sure there are things which Charlie knows and you do not, in which case maybe you should not be inspecting, being as those items as such basic knowledge that any inspector of any consequence should already know them, or, stop inspecting and go learn them.

    That is what you said (basically) and what you repeated each and every time.

    If you know it, everyone else should know it, thus, and conversely, if they know it, you should know it. Gosh - that makes everyone knowing everything!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    This outlet was installed in my kitchen before I bought my house. I always wondered what it was for. It was wired with 12 gauge 2+1 as a 240V circuit. Being in the kitchen I doubt it was an air-conditioner.

    Sorry if there's more info about the OP's question buried somewhere in the pissing match of witts that I missed.

    Was there ever any determination as to what type or equipment this/these outlets might be for?


  25. #25
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET View Post
    jeff

    it is 10pm here in beautiful colorado--you should be sleeping for your inspection tomorrow if you have one--sorry for that.
    your perception was critical and offensive. you have control over your words and should re-think them before you send them, that is what we all should do before we send something on this web

    we are sharing this web when we come across something we don't see daily, simple to some and naked to others -let that be your lesson. i am sure there are things here in the mountains that we inspect that are greek to you, so be respectful and add constructive advice and not destuctive .
    if you want me to test you let me know

    have a great year and hope we have all learned a little more tonight

    charlie
    It is 1am and I am finishing up todays reports that I let go so I could spend some family time after work. I have to be up early for 2 inspections tomorrow which I am grateful for. I only do no more than 2 per day and lately 2 in one day is a blessing.

    Think what you want, I am just being honest. That was simple home inspector 101 and should have been known by now. Like it or not it is my opinion. It is one thing to ask about a particular situation or an oddity but it is another to ask a basic question that you should have already known.

    I need sleep so I can function tomorrow. Goodnight and have a pleasant tomorrown.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

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  27. #27
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Matt, Charlie's was probably for an A/C unit being in the living room. In a kitchen, my first guess would be one of the "professional" European espresso machines. Many of these are 220v (some 20-amp, some 30-amp). I've seen it once before in a very high end downtown condo kitchen. We take our coffee very, very seriously here!

    But...there may be other "commercial" grade, 220v countertop appliances. Could you use an arc-welder to sear a steak?


  28. #28
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    This outlet was installed in my kitchen before I bought my house. I always wondered what it was for. It was wired with 12 gauge 2+1 as a 240V circuit. Being in the kitchen I doubt it was an air-conditioner.

    Sorry if there's more info about the OP's question buried somewhere in the pissing match of witts that I missed.

    Was there ever any determination as to what type or equipment this/these outlets might be for?
    Maybe a small kiln? Someone doing home pottery?

    I like the coffee maker idea better after seeing the picture. (Mine all comes from an instant jar!)

    Last edited by Vern Heiler; 02-19-2009 at 09:14 AM. Reason: after picture.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    This outlet was installed in my kitchen before I bought my house. I always wondered what it was for. It was wired with 12 gauge 2+1 as a 240V circuit. Being in the kitchen I doubt it was an air-conditioner.

    Sorry if there's more info about the OP's question buried somewhere in the pissing match of witts that I missed.

    Was there ever any determination as to what type or equipment this/these outlets might be for?
    Best guess for the Original Poster as it was in a family room type area was for: Air Conditioner unit or small PTAC unit.

    Adapted (not quite legit) 240v electric space heater (such as cadet F series).

    Additional guesses for kitchen location:
    Commercial appliance such as high-end espresso maker,
    Large volume (5 gal) instant hot water unit,
    Bar glass washer (240 not 208).
    Steam press (laundry).
    Other commercial grade appliance.

    Other possible applications neither likely in-home: arc welder, compressor.

    In my very foggy memory I'm recalling early tappan microwaves or radar range/convection ovens before the late 60s.


  30. #30
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Charlie it's a 240 volt receptacle most likely 20 amp. I would not stress about why it's there or what it was used for. If it has no power I would mention it, if it has power there is no reason to mention it in your report. You might say something like this (A 240 volt receptacle has been installed in living room. Recommend asking property owners about the receptacle and what it is used for).


  31. #31
    Fred Warner's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    I still think it's a 125-volt 20 ampere receptacle.


  32. #32
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Warner View Post
    I still think it's a 125-volt 20 ampere receptacle.

    I agree Fred

    I see them all the time over here in the older homes. It is just your typical 20 amp (noted by the plug design) receptacle. The reason for the particular plug configuration is for just that to tell you it is a 20 amp. I am not sure where all this 240 came from. A 240 receptacle would be larger and different plug config. That design even if you go to the orange box store is for 20 amp. 125 volt


  33. #33
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

  34. #34
    Fred Warner's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Miller View Post
    Thanks, Roland. I just looked very quickly at the receptacles depicted on page 70-481 in the '08 NEC and messed up when I flipped the book over while looking at the 20-a 125-volt rec. Oops!.

    Last edited by Fred Warner; 02-19-2009 at 03:10 PM.

  35. #35
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Miller View Post

    SORRY NEVER BLEW IT UP AND THOUGHT I WAS LOOKING AT THE ONE NEXT TO IT THE 5-20r


  36. #36
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Hopefully I was looking at the one being discussed. Was it the one on the left??

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

  37. #37
    Fred Warner's Avatar
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Miller View Post
    Hopefully I was looking at the one being discussed. Was it the one on the left??
    I think we're all discussing the receptacle on the left, even though the OP did mention "duplex" receptacle.


  38. #38
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    Default Re: DUPLEX OUTLET IN FAMILY ROOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Warner View Post
    Maybe it's a special 125-volt 20 ampere 2-pole, 3-wire, grounding type receptacle used for an air conditioner or some other appliance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Moore View Post
    I think Fred meant 240-volt, 20-amp, etc....'cos that's what it is (or should be).
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Warner View Post
    I still think it's a 125-volt 20 ampere receptacle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I agree Fred

    I see them all the time over here in the older homes. It is just your typical 20 amp (noted by the plug design) receptacle. The reason for the particular plug configuration is for just that to tell you it is a 20 amp. I am not sure where all this 240 came from. A 240 receptacle would be larger and different plug config. That design even if you go to the orange box store is for 20 amp. 125 volt
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Warner View Post
    I think we're all discussing the receptacle on the left, even though the OP did mention "duplex" receptacle.
    The slot to the upper right from the grounding slot is horizontal that's what tells you it is a 250v rated receptacle (rating is actually for 250v 20 amps). If that slot was vertical as pictured then it would be 125v 20 amp.

    Failure to finish wall to within 1/8" of box should be called out, but I'd be more suspicious with orientation to the adjacent 125v 15 amp duplex that the box is not properly secured be it a new work box or an old work box, as it appears that the box containing said receptacle has slipped downward.

    It is a single receptacle. A duplex receptacle is two individual receptacles (two places to insert two plugs/caps) on a single yoke (such as the 125v 15 amp duplex receptacle which appears to the right of the subject receptacle).

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 02-19-2009 at 04:11 PM.

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