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  1. #1
    Gary Anglin's Avatar
    Gary Anglin Guest

    Default Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    The electric range bit the dust and I've finally talked the meaner half into a gas range - as part of improving the curb appeal in the kitchen if we ever get this place on the market.

    Gas line is already in place with the proper extension and shut off. Range outlet is floor mounted next to it. There is no convenience outlet to plug the new range into behind where the stove sits.

    Couple questions if I could:

    - can I floor mount the new outlet box next to the current range outlet or does code require a standard wall mount

    - new wire run to the panel so the range will be the only thing on the line. Is 15 amp. acceptable or should I just go with 20. I plan to mount a single outlet in the box - not a duplex.

    Thanks......

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Does the exiting range outlet have a neutral and a ground (four prong plug/receptacles) or is it one of the older three prong plugs/receptacles?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  3. #3
    Gary Anglin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    It's a 3 prong - 50 amp rated outlet - on a 40 amp breaker. House built 1988.

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  4. #4
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    Smile Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Install one single pole 15 amp. breaker into house panel. Attach to it
    NM-B 14-2/ground cable other end to a single 15 amp. receptacle, which
    you install into a handy box. If the box is metal, be sure to ground it.
    Place new receptacle next to old range receptacle. No code to prevent
    this in Vermont State.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Anglin View Post
    It's a 3 prong - 50 amp rated outlet - on a 40 amp breaker. House built 1988.
    Gary,

    Remove that receptacle, install a junction/outlet box, add pig tails to those conductors, phase tape mark one of the conductors white (making sure that *THE SAME* conductor is also marked white back at the panel), install the regular 20 amp receptacle, back at the panel install a 20 amp breaker.

    The problem now may be how to connect the pigtails as you are working with aluminum to copper.

    You could install a disconnect box behind the range which is rated for aluminum conductors, then go out with copper to feed the receptacle at the junction box, that would take care of that end. But you still have the panel end to deal with. If those are #8s you'd have to read the 20 amp breaker and see what maximum size conductor is allowed to be installed in that breaker, does it include that size?

    Worst case you may need to feed that with the existing breaker, except using the white identified conductor as neutral, and install a fused disconnect behind the range to use 20 amp fuses to protect the conductors to the receptacle.

    However, another problem comes up in installing the either the non-fused or fused disconnect behind the range, and that is working space in front of the disconnect.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Fred Warner's Avatar
    Fred Warner Guest

    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Anglin View Post
    ..............Couple questions if I could:

    - can I floor mount the new outlet box next to the current range outlet or does code require a standard wall mount

    - new wire run to the panel so the range will be the only thing on the line. Is 15 amp. acceptable or should I just go with 20. I plan to mount a single outlet in the box - not a duplex.

    Thanks......
    You can install a listed floor mounted receptacle.

    You can also install a single receptacle on an individual circuit as per 210.21(B)(1), or include the stove receptacle on the SABC as per exception #2 to 210.52(B)(2). 15 amperes would be acceptable.


  7. #7
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    Smile Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Gary Anglin I just read that over post to your question.
    Fred Warner answer is one better than mine because he cite the NEC
    Code for you. Jerry Peck gave a good answer, but I would not personal
    go this route if I could get the Electrical Panel and back behind the range
    without damage any walls or ceiling. I just don't trust aluminaum wiring
    when it comes to wiring with pigtial. If you want to know more google the
    Trouble with Aluminum Wiring in the home. Be careful in what ever you do.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert S. Mattison View Post
    Jerry Peck gave a good answer, but I would not personal go this route if I could get the Electrical Panel and back behind the range without damage any walls or ceiling.
    Robert,

    I offered that as a way to do what he needs if it is difficult to pull in a new circuit.

    If there is easy access, I agree, pull in the new circuit, but, if not easy access ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Gary Anglin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    What an ordeal just to install a new range. Delivery guys arrive bring in the range and one starts the install while the other unboxes parts and cleans up outside.

    Installs the stainless flex on a straight fitting and when you push the range back it sticks out in the floor too far. Installer says this would work better with a 45 fitting - no they don't carry any - bends the crap out of the flex trying to push it back more. Never mind - I'll get a 45 and reinstall myself. Asked if they plan to level the range - no that's not included.

    Ask about the anti-tip - no we only install those when we do appliances in new homes before they are sold. No - it's not required by code - they go in the drywall and end up pulling out anyway. Notice the install guide has screws in the bag and a sticker that says to be sure and install the "included" anti-tip device. Never mind - I'll do that myself too.

    They leave. When they unboxed they kept the anti-tip and away they went. Try to call them on their cell phone - no answer. Suspect they don't bring them in the house because people would ask what that is and then want it installed. Try to call their company - no answer at any extension option. Go to main voice mail - message says please note it may take up to 2 weeks to return calls left in this mailbox...

    Call the Home Depot 800 number - it actually goes to GE who handles all their installations and hires the contractors. Woman there has no idea what to tell me - she'll make a note in my file however.

    There's more - but I risk boring you.... really appreciate the help with the electrical - think I have that figured out.....


  10. #10
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Hopefully you paid the bastards with a credit card or bought it on credit.
    I would have told them to take the unit with them when they left and keep it until they had someone to do it correctly.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Anglin View Post
    What an ordeal just to install a new range. Delivery guys arrive bring in the range and one starts the install while the other unboxes parts and cleans up outside.

    Installs the stainless flex on a straight fitting and when you push the range back it sticks out in the floor too far. Installer says this would work better with a 45 fitting - no they don't carry any - bends the crap out of the flex trying to push it back more. Never mind - I'll get a 45 and reinstall myself. Asked if they plan to level the range - no that's not included.

    Ask about the anti-tip - no we only install those when we do appliances in new homes before they are sold. No - it's not required by code - they go in the drywall and end up pulling out anyway. Notice the install guide has screws in the bag and a sticker that says to be sure and install the "included" anti-tip device. Never mind - I'll do that myself too.

    They leave. When they unboxed they kept the anti-tip and away they went. Try to call them on their cell phone - no answer. Suspect they don't bring them in the house because people would ask what that is and then want it installed. Try to call their company - no answer at any extension option. Go to main voice mail - message says please note it may take up to 2 weeks to return calls left in this mailbox...

    Call the Home Depot 800 number - it actually goes to GE who handles all their installations and hires the contractors. Woman there has no idea what to tell me - she'll make a note in my file however.

    There's more - but I risk boring you.... really appreciate the help with the electrical - think I have that figured out.....
    Call the store manager at the store you bought it at. Bottom line is that the store manager has the final say in who his/her store uses for the installs. If you make enough noise you will get their attention. I have always found it useful to findout who is their boss in their district.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I have always found it useful to findout who is their boss in their district.

    Find that out first, that way, if the store manager's response is not satisfactory you can say 'Okay, no problem, I just want to verify Mr. so-and-so phone number as I am calling him next, his phone number is .... , is that the correct number?'

    Not only does the store manager have that final responsibility for his store, but his name will be in the paper along with the store's name when the paper lists the "Defendants" in the personal injury lawsuit.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Smile Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Gary just hate the way they treated you. My hat off to Jerry Peck and his post, no one likes to hear the word - lawsuit. Also that I hate to see your name attach, because you fail to see that the stove was correctly install by the party you arrange to do the work. Ask to receive a copy of the insurance they carry on the workers. Good Luck!


  14. #14
    Gary Anglin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert S. Mattison View Post
    Gary just hate the way they treated you. My hat off to Jerry Peck and his post, no one likes to hear the word - lawsuit. Also that I hate to see your name attach, because you fail to see that the stove was correctly install by the party you arrange to do the work. Ask to receive a copy of the insurance they carry on the workers. Good Luck!
    Appreciate the advice and concern - I don't think there will be any lawsuits - I'm ending up doing it myself so I know it's done right.

    Went to Home Depot - they admitted the anti tip should have been installed - in fact they tell me they even have to put them on the display models in the store. They get on the phone to GE - over hear a slightly heated conversation about this being part of their contract and long story short I'm soon being driven crazy by calls from the installer and GE.

    Installer sends out another employee and by now I don't trust them - thank him for the parts - listen to the apology - chastise the hell out of him and send him on his way.

    The new gas line is in - on the proper 45 - uncrimped and in a neat U shaped arc as it should be. Anti tip to go in this week.

    Back to the electrical later if you will tolerate me.

    You know, it's no wonder you folks find some of the things you do.

    Last edited by Gary Anglin; 04-13-2009 at 09:21 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    A buddy of mine did a complete kitchen remodel through Home Depot.... Overall it was a total nightmare. Cabinet doors not opening at 90 degree turns, weeks with the kitchen torn apart when they promised a couple days, slide-outs hitting doors.... just horrible stuff and no single person to talk to. You just have to call the 'center' and never get the same person. Just like you describe, you get a 'message box'.

    This buddy of mine is pretty much a nightmare to anyone who he perceives as wronging him.... in the end he got over $1000 in HD gift cards and had district managers, store managers and all the contractors involved in his kitchen trying to sort things out.

    My point is, if you want to be a PITA you can definitely get something from HD. It sounds like you'd be more than justified in complaining.

    It's funny... I haven't heard HD promoting their 'In-Home Services' lately like they were a few years ago. I imagine it sounded like a good idea on paper and then they realized that your average contractor is a total nightmare to deal with.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Mounting Range Convenience Outlet

    Hmmm, up til now, I always thought Home Depot & Sears had a fairly good reputation on their installs and weeded out the bad installers off their list.


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