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  1. #1
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    Dec 2008
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    Default Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    Have a question to see if wires are allowed to be connected to the main 100 amp breaker and then go into a sub-panel to a 60 amp breaker.
    Thank you for your comments

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  2. #2
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    Sam,
    It appears that breaker is double tapped. But to answer your question, no.


  3. #3
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    Dec 2008
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    Ohio
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    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    What Mathew said... main is double tapped and a no no


  4. #4
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    St. Louis, Mo. area.
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    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    To specifically answer your question, if you had say a 200 amp service that was set up correctly, and you used a set of 100 amp breakers to feed a sub-panel, as long as the wires being used were sized correctly, this would work fine. Then, in that sub-panel, if the main panel breakers happened to be 60 amp, there would be no problem with that either. The only thing you could pretty much count on would be that the sub-panel 60 amp breakers would trip way before the 100 amp breakers that were supplying it. The larger amp breakers would normally never be tripped.

    The big problem that we're all seeing with the photos you supplied is that you cannot normally put two cables (or wires) into a breaker like you're showing. You have to have a separate breaker for each circuit.

    Hope this helps you!


  5. #5
    Phil Brody's Avatar
    Phil Brody Guest

    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    Needs to be dropped down and connect to it's own 60 amp, probably would never cause a problem in it's lifetime but that's code.


  6. #6
    Terry Fitzgerald's Avatar
    Terry Fitzgerald Guest

    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    A rule of thumb is that you NEVER install more than one wire under a screw, from a breaker to a duplex receptacle. In the scenario you describe, do the following: 1.) have only the two 120v hot wires coming from the meter installed to the main breaker 2.) using correct wire size (#6 for 60 amp) in the necessary conduit or pipe, install the sub-panel with it's own 60 amp dual breaker in the main panel (do not run the grounds from the circuits of the sub-panel directly to the main panel - if you do not know how to do this, be sure to find out) 3.) I'm not sure why you want an additional 60 amp breaker, but you would not need it in the sub-panel unless you are providing only a 60 amp circuit from the sub panel in which case you could just run a cable directly to the equipment you have in mind such as an arc welder.


  7. #7
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    Presuming that the 100 amp breaker shown is the main disconnect at the service equipment (which it has to be or other things are also wrong), then the conductors feeding that breaker will be coming from the meter - unprotected - no overcurrent protection.

    With the above scenario set, the multiple tapped second set of conductor going to the REMOTE 60 amp ARE NOT EVEN PROTECTED BY 100 amp breaker, they are tapped off the service entrance conductors and themselves become service entrance conductors to the REMOTE SERVICE EQUIPMENT (that is what that REMOTE panel now is).

    THAT creates all kinds of additional problems: at that REMOTE service equipment; at this service equipment; by both service disconnects not be grouped; and on and on ...

    Also, while you are looking at THIS service equipment panel, the top right SEC cable is not in a proper cable clamp - it looks like it 'might be' (or 'might not be'), except that the cable clamp has pulled the concentric knock outs up out of place. See the SEC over to the right just above the right side of the main breaker? That is what this should look like too.

    I'm guessing one of those SEC cables went to the range and one to the clothes dryer, which was allowed "back then", but is no longer allowed.

    Nonetheless, though, there is enough there with that multiple tapped now-service-entrance-conductor going to a now-service-equipment-located-elsewhere that the electrician will have to sort it all out.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Texas
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    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    Not to hijack this thread but Jerry...I know you are a stickler on Sub-panel vs REMOTE panel. I and many others, electricians included have always called a panel that is fed from the main panel a sub-panel.

    Is this something that you prefer to call it, remote panel (me sub-panel) or is there definite lanquage in the code?

    This is a serious question because I like to use correct terminology.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    Not to hijack this thread but Jerry...I know you are a stickler on Sub-panel vs REMOTE panel. I and many others, electricians included have always called a panel that is fed from the main panel a sub-panel.

    Is this something that you prefer to call it, remote panel (me sub-panel) or is there definite lanquage in the code?

    This is a serious question because I like to use correct terminology.

    Wayne,

    I've only started using the term "remote" panel as Fred suggested it to wean others off the "subpanel" term.

    The correct term is "panelboard", or, when shortened, "panel".

    The term "subpanel" originated from a panel sub-fed from a breaker in another panel, i.e., a 'sub-fed panel'.

    However, in the code there is no "sub panel", "subpanel", or "sub-fed panel", just "panelboard".

    The reason I keep harping on this improper use of the term "subpanel" as almost invariably, such as in the posts above, those using the term "subpanel" allows the use of that term to throw them off and not understand what is being done.

    For example, that is being called a feed to a "subpanel", however, it is really "service entrance conductors going to another service equipment with another service disconnect".

    Anyone using the term "subpanel" has already blocked their thought process as to what they are looking at and seeing, they are making what they are seeing match what they are thinking, not allowing their thinking to match what they are seeing.

    That is why all home inspectors, electricians too, should simply (okay, it is not that simple, it takes effort) STOP USING the term "subpanel"/"sub panel".

    The better way to think of it is "service equipment" and "not service equipment", that way, when looking at the photo, one thinks 'is that "service equipment" or is that "not service equipment". Short of having a "main disconnect only" enclosure, they will find "panelboards" - i.e., "panels" - at both locations ... at "service equipment" locations and and "not service equipment" locations, and it is the "service equipment" or "not service equipment" which identifies whether the neutral is bonded to ground ("service equipment") or isolated from ground ("not service equipment").

    Otherwise, there is little difference in how the panels are wired.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Wade Johnson's Avatar
    Wade Johnson Guest

    Default Re: Breaker

    Anyone ever seen a double pole breaker being used for an HVAC system with half marked 70 & the other half marked 30?


  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Johnson View Post
    Anyone ever seen a double pole breaker being used for an HVAC system with half marked 70 & the other half marked 30?
    No, and if one of the markings was not possibly worn off (meaning they both were really the same), then it would not be allowed.

    Both breakers of a double pole breaker need to be the same size, and that size needs to match the circuit and the equipment on that breaker.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    Jerry,

    We were all reminded at the seminar I attended this weekend that we should call them "panelboards" and not subpanels.

    Maybe its catching on!

    rick


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Electrical Panel 100 amp to a 60 amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Jerry,

    We were all reminded at the seminar I attended this weekend that we should call them "panelboards" and not subpanels.

    Maybe its catching on!

    rick
    Rick,

    Well, I'll be ... Hot Dang! ... that is very good news!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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