Results 1 to 39 of 39

Thread: GFCI in Kitchen

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Posts
    1,072

    Default GFCI in Kitchen

    I inspected a 05 town home this morning and need some clarification. There was a outlet across from the sink on the wall. The only outlet in the kitchen that was not gfci protected except the refrigerator.

    From Jerry's chart (All outlets which serve as counter top outlets, except outlets for refrigerator or freezer.)

    Now why would the code change from a more restricted "all outlets withing 6' of the sink" to only outlets on the counter?

    I also don't know why they would add "except outlets for refrigerator" when refrigerator outlets are not serving the counter.

    What would you say about the outlet in the pic? I'm just thinking of recommending it be gfci since it's so close to wet areas.


    Similar Threads:
    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Inspection Referral
    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  2. #2
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Schulz View Post
    I inspected a 05 town home this morning and need some clarification. There was a outlet across from the sink on the wall. The only outlet in the kitchen that was not gfci protected except the refrigerator.

    From Jerry's chart (All outlets which serve as counter top outlets, except outlets for refrigerator or freezer.)

    Now why would the code change from a more restricted "all outlets withing 6' of the sink" to only outlets on the counter?

    I also don't know why they would add "except outlets for refrigerator" when refrigerator outlets are not serving the counter.

    What would you say about the outlet in the pic? I'm just thinking of recommending it be gfci since it's so close to wet areas.
    Mike: Of course it all depends on what version of the code was adopted at the time of the build and what amendments regarding this the AHJ may have dreamt up.

    Assuming, like most jurisdictions, that they were a code cycle behind and were using NEC 2002:
    210.8 (6) Kitchens - where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces.

    Now, I assure you, that I will catch all sorts of flak over this next statement or two (not to worry though, because I like flak) . The statement is referring to intent. Whose intent? The builder's or the home owner's? In other words, If the home owner intends to use this receptacle to power something on the countertop, then it should be GFCI protected. And, this is certainly a possibility, if not a probability. I consider it my job to protect the end users, not the AHJs and builders, and certainly not the NEC.

    And to the builder's intent? To make money, so who cares.

    The AHJs intent? To collect taxes in the form of permit fees.

    As for what the building official's take would be, you'll have to inquire of JP. He thinks like them. Not me. Not now, not ever.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,365

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    I'll often find the GFI outlet that protects the non-counter top kitchen outlets is on a nearby living room wall (usually behind a couch or china hutch). Does you three-prong tester have a GFI 'test' feature and did you test it to be sure? I ask because I gave up on the remote testers years ago because I got sick of triggering a GFIs that I couldn't find.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Posts
    1,072

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Thanks for your replies. I expressed my concerns in my report. I checked all the outlets with a tester. All good but that one!

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Schulz View Post
    Now why would the code change from a more restricted "all outlets withing 6' of the sink" to only outlets on the counter?


    Actually, "within 6 feet of the sink" is LESS restrictive. Think about all those countertop receptacle outlets which are "more than" 6 feet from the sink ...

    The intent is to protect the receptacle outlets which the small appliances are going to be plugged in to. No one is going to plug a small appliance into that receptacle shown in your photo, BUT, in your photo, the counter top to the right or the range is "more than" 6 feet from the sink, and it will (if there is a receptacle there) have small appliances plugged into it - with the old code that would not have required GFCI protection, even though it is potentially a problem.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    No one is going to plug a small appliance into that receptacle shown in your photo,
    JP: That, my friend, is AHJ-speak, even worse, builder-speak. All too often I see receptacles installed on the family room side of the kitchen island, peninsula, or outrigger countertops that are not GFCI-protected. The argument is the same as yours, and it is not valid. I visit occupied houses on a regular basis and see where they have some appliance or another plugged into one of these because they have the rest covered up with telephone chargers, air fresheners, laptop transformers, etc.

    So then, regardless what the builder intends the receptacle to be used for, it will be used for whatever the homeowner decides. The code should be rewritten to account for this. Why require all bathroom and garage (even the ceiling), but not all kitchen GFCIs?

    Inconsistent (or consistently stupid) is why.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: That, my friend, is AHJ-speak, even worse, builder-speak. All too often I see receptacles installed on the family room side of the kitchen island, peninsula, or outrigger countertops that are not GFCI-protected. The argument is the same as yours, and it is not valid. I visit occupied houses on a regular basis and see where they have some appliance or another plugged into one of these because they have the rest covered up with telephone chargers, air fresheners, laptop transformers, etc.

    So then, regardless what the builder intends the receptacle to be used for, it will be used for whatever the homeowner decides. The code should be rewritten to account for this. Why require all bathroom and garage (even the ceiling), but not all kitchen GFCIs?

    Inconsistent (or consistently stupid) is why.
    Aaron,

    The code, as we have had repeated many times, only addresses MINIMUM standards, and, THAT receptacle outlet is not going to be used for THAT purpose (to serve the countertop - there IS NOT countertop there for it to serve).

    The receptacles you are referring to are (if not high enough) NOT there to serve the countertop, but, with a countertop being there, they can be used for that purpose with appliances with longer than the 2 foot cords.

    The rules have changed over the years, and for various reasons, all for the reason of creating a better MINIMUM standard.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    THAT receptacle outlet is not going to be used for THAT purpose (to serve the countertop - there IS NOT countertop there for it to serve).
    JP: But, I can see the coutnertop.

    The receptacles you are referring to are (if not high enough) NOT there to serve the countertop,
    JP: You mean not intended to serve the countertop, or what? Whose intent?

    The rules have changed over the years, and for various reasons, all for the reason of creating a better MINIMUM standard.
    JP: Not alwasy better.


  9. #9
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    "Al Wasy" was my spell checker on that last post


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: That, my friend, is AHJ-speak, even worse, builder-speak. All too often I see receptacles installed on the family room side of the kitchen island, peninsula, or outrigger countertops that are not GFCI-protected. The argument is the same as yours, and it is not valid. I visit occupied houses on a regular basis and see where they have some appliance or another plugged into one of these because they have the rest covered up with telephone chargers, air fresheners, laptop transformers, etc.

    So then, regardless what the builder intends the receptacle to be used for, it will be used for whatever the homeowner decides. The code should be rewritten to account for this. Why require all bathroom and garage (even the ceiling), but not all kitchen GFCIs?

    Inconsistent (or consistently stupid) is why.

    Where does the code say that the garage opener ceiling outlet needs to be GFCI?

    We have a few electricians around here that have started doing that but its going to cause more problems than it solves.


  11. #11
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    Where does the code say that the garage opener ceiling outlet needs to be GFCI?

    We have a few electricians around here that have started doing that but its going to cause more problems than it solves.
    Bruce: 2008 NEC 210.8

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    That picture is from a training book or something?

    I think the code exempts dedicated outlets in the garage if they are labeled as non-gfci

    Can someone post the actual code?


  13. #13
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    That picture is from a training book or something?

    I think the code exempts dedicated outlets in the garage if they are labeled as non-gfci

    Can someone post the actual code?
    Bruce, Bruce: That picture is directly from the 2008 NEC Handbook, not a training book.

    210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.
    (A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
    (2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use

    Does that suit you? If not, leave your phone number and I'll call you up and read it to you.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    2008 huh, I was thinking 2002.

    Stupid rule for the ceiling outlet, now people with openers will get locked out when the gfci trips. Many kids use the exterior remote panel to get inside.

    They still have a list of exemptions right?
    Like a single receptacle for dedicated equipment?


  15. #15
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    2008 huh, I was thinking 2002.

    Stupid rule for the ceiling outlet, now people with openers will get locked out when the gfci trips. Many kids use the exterior remote panel to get inside.

    They still have a list of exemptions right?
    Like a single receptacle for dedicated equipment?
    BK: No more garage exemptions.


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Its going to keep getting harder for the code quoters out there that work in areas with multiple counties and cities to make accurate writeups vs recommended upgrade writeups since you have to know the year and month the permit was pulled and the year and month that particular area adopted which code and with what revisions and interpretations.


    My house would fool most inspectors, moved in new in April 2002 it has smokes in every bedroom etc. and some arc fault breakers. Would you write a defect if a few bedrooms did not have arc faults?


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    THAT purpose (to serve the countertop - there IS NOT countertop there for it to serve).
    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: But, I can see the coutnertop.
    You see a countertop "above" THAT receptacle outlet?

    Where?

    Oh ... you mean stringing the cord across the room ... they then become Darwin Award Candidates and THERE IS NOTHING that any code can do to protect them from themselves.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    Stupid rule for the ceiling outlet, now people with openers will get locked out when the gfci trips. Many kids use the exterior remote panel to get inside.
    Why is that a stupid rule?

    You'd rather the person get electrocute when replacing the lamp in the garage door operator than get caught outside (can't say "locked out" as that IS NOT an exit or entry into the house anyway, that is a way for vehicles to enter and exit the garage.

    With the new standards for leakage in equipment ... new being relative - like from 20 years ago ... there is no tripping of GFCI unless there is a problem.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On The Mason-Dixon Line
    Posts
    577

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    That outlet in the original post need not be GFCI.

    GFCI for all receptacles in garage is a good thing.
    I have seen good old harry homeowner hang one of those cord reels from the garage ceiling and plug it into the garage door opener receptacle.

    The 2008 NEC has done away with the exception of using a single outlet in place of a GFCI.


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Why is that a stupid rule?

    You'd rather the person get electrocute when replacing the lamp in the garage door operator than get caught outside (can't say "locked out" as that IS NOT an exit or entry into the house anyway, that is a way for vehicles to enter and exit the garage.

    With the new standards for leakage in equipment ... new being relative - like from 20 years ago ... there is no tripping of GFCI unless there is a problem.

    People have been changing light bulbs for years in non-gfci sockets and will continue to do so even after the 2008 is adopted everywhere. And don't say they turn off the breaker, most don't know which one and with the three way light switches they can't tell when many switches are really off.

    If you have a wireless keypad on the exterior it IS an entry to the home.

    Maybe the code people could have made the garage a seperate circuit so the extension cord left plugged in on the rear deck does not trip the garage circuit when it rains and little Johnny is trying to get in the garage door.

    At any rate, its ok, most people will end up learning about the pro's and con's of this in 5-10 years. They have cell phones too, they can call someone with a key right?

    I agree, GFCI's have gotten better I see more stuck in the on position than in the off position. Wait a minute, thats worse, not better! LMAO!


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    That outlet in the original post need not be GFCI.

    GFCI for all receptacles in garage is a good thing.
    I have seen good old harry homeowner hang one of those cord reels from the garage ceiling and plug it into the garage door opener receptacle.

    The 2008 NEC has done away with the exception of using a single outlet in place of a GFCI.
    Yep, and thats the reason the code included that one!


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    People have been changing light bulbs for years in non-gfci sockets and will continue to do so even after the 2008 is adopted everywhere. And don't say they turn off the breaker, most don't know which one and with the three way light switches they can't tell when many switches are really off.
    Yep, and when one trips the GFCI ... or WOULD trip the GFCI ... you would NOT want to be touching it to change the light bulb, would you?

    If you have a wireless keypad on the exterior it IS an entry to the home.
    Nope. Still NOT an entry into the home. USED AS ONE, yes, but IT IS NOT one.

    There is a significant difference.

    Maybe the code people could have made the garage a seperate circuit so the extension cord left plugged in on the rear deck does not trip the garage circuit when it rains and little Johnny is trying to get in the garage door.
    Why?

    The code DOES NOT ... CANNOT ... protect stupid people from themselves or other stupid people.

    Those things thin the gene pool and prove Darwin was correct.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Posts
    1,072

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    As you can see from the squares in the vinyl flooring the sink is 3' away from the outlet. That is what erked me. When you are using you electric mop plugged in that wall and leaning against that sink with your head hung under the spigot getting a drink of water and the unit shorts......... ahh you deserve to fry.

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    I know of many code items that need tweaking and anyone who does not is just memorizing code and not thinking.

    Maybe when I get retired like Jerry I will make it a project.


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Schulz View Post
    As you can see from the squares in the vinyl flooring the sink is 3' away from the outlet. That is what erked me. When you are using you electric mop plugged in that wall and leaning against that sink with your head hung under the spigot getting a drink of water and the unit shorts......... ahh you deserve to fry.


    Quit cracking me up Mike, you got an electric mop? Jeez, I need to raise my rates, don't have one of those.


    Some electricians are exceeding the code around here (or just saving wire), I find those wall outlets on gfci all the time and some condos have every single exterior outlet with is very own GFCI reset. The code guy gets upset though when he finds the butlers pantry outlet tied to the bathroom GFCI.

    Some houses are a real pain to walk around and reset the one gfi that is tied to everything outside.

    I usually check everything for proper polarity first and then trip it and go back later to make sure it went off. This is a good thing to do on the exterior so you can recheck some things on that last trip around the house.


  26. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    I know of many code items that need tweaking and anyone who does not is just memorizing code and not thinking.

    "Many"?

    Heck, the entire code needs "tweaking", which is why there are code review cycles and revisions come out every three years.

    There IS A LOT of work which goes on for NEC code changes from submittals to actually making it into the code.

    Remember, though, one cannot make the code unusable by making it into an equivalent of a 32 volume set of Encyclopedia Britannica. And even that would not address every single thing which would need to be addressed - that would be like the Commissioner of the United States Patent Office saying "Everything that can be invented - has already been invented." ... wait ... that WAS said by the Commissioner of the United Stated Patent Office ... back in 1899!

    And in 1843 something similar had been said by a patent commissioner "The advancement of the arts, from year to year, taxes our credulity and seems to presage the arrival of that period when human improvement must end."

    Codes never needing "tweaking" ... not in the lifetimes of all human existence.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    have every single exterior outlet with is very own GFCI reset.
    Bruce,

    Why didn't I see you when you were walking around my house?

    Did you find BOTH of them on the back porch? One on each side of the large sliding glass door behind the chairs?

    The code guy gets upset though when he finds the butlers pantry outlet tied to the bathroom GFCI.

    As he should.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC Licensed in NC and SC
    Posts
    597

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    I can't wait to watch the inspector when I sell my house in 30 years.
    Poor sucker will sink fast.

    I was the builder on my house and electrician, trim, tile, paint, cabinet installer etc a few years before I got into inspecting.

    The electrical system on my house is uh well, custom. Since I have a long background in electronics, industrial electrical control etc I had some ideas on how a house should be setup and thats exactly what I installed, at least six months of planning and about 7 miles of cable. I even ran oversized cable to my heat pumps to lessen the voltage drop at start up.

    Well, it all meets code (I think) but its just too complicated and overkill for a 3600sf house. The load calc came out to 277 amps, all electric house.
    The power bill averages only $120 which is not bad with a detached shop, 2 heat pumps and outside hot tub.

    I have two 200 amp disconnects at the 320 amp meter two 200 amp panels in the garage, 60 amp panel in a detached shop, 50 amp panel at one end for another hot tub location. A spare panel in the attic (house is one level on a slab so I prewired for a pool, exterior circuits/switches etc), a 30 amp RV outlet, a sawmill outlet, dedicated 20 amp 4-plex outlets in bathrooms (wife has 60 amps at her bath counter) hey, she said I want extra plugins, she got extra plugins. Four exterior 20 amp circuits for general outlets, two water heaters with a switch on one (for use when we have company, don't like cold showers), a hot water recirc loop on a timer and two point of use water heaters for when the loop is off. A generator hookup (poor man version), a panel to control all exterior lights with my custom alarm system (in progress still)

    Ok, heres the good part, I like 3-way and 4-way switches (or did, now I can't remember what some of them do) I have quad switch plates all over the place, lighting is everywhere, switches by the bed control stuff (can't remember all of it right now) The panels are very well labeled and even have notes explaining things like what to do when you connect a generator and to be careful because there are multiple bath and exterior circuits.

    Anyway the rule is, if you flip a switch and it don't do what you wanted, flip it back where it was please.


  29. #29
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Heck, the entire code needs "tweaking", which is why there are code review cycles and revisions come out every three years.
    JP: Agreed.

    There IS A LOT of work which goes on for NEC code changes from submittals to actually making it into the code.
    JP: Agreed with a significant caveat: Unless you are a connected master electrician, they will not pay attention to any submittals.


    "The advancement of the arts, from year to year, taxes our credulity and seems to presage the arrival of that period when human improvement must end."
    JP: The true, but publicly unspoken, mantra of all AHJs.


  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: Agreed with a significant caveat: Unless you are a connected master electrician, they will not pay attention to any submittals.
    COMPLETELY wrong there.

    The code change submission is examined on its own merits, and, one can attend the meetings if one desires to fly all around to them.

    The Code Making Panels do not care "who" makes the proposals.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  31. #31
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    COMPLETELY wrong there.

    The code change submission is examined on its own merits, and, one can attend the meetings if one desires to fly all around to them.

    The Code Making Panels do not care "who" makes the proposals.
    JP: That is your opinion, and you are certainly allowed to have it.


  32. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: That is your opinion, and you are certainly allowed to have it.
    Not opinion, experience.

    You are allowed to have your opinion, though, however wrong it is.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  33. #33
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Not opinion, experience.

    You are allowed to have your opinion, though, however wrong it is.
    JP: You may have a year or two on me, but I have been dealing with building codes up close and personal since 1975. That my fine-pointed friend, is no short period of time. Had I the leisure of reading them daily to the exclusion of all else, as it seems to be your case, I might have a better grasp of them.

    But, I am working on it.


  34. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    Had I the leisure of reading them daily to the exclusion of all else, as it seems to be your case,
    Not my case at all, but between this site, my site, and the calls and e-mails I get from my other site and work, I do a fair amount of researching code information, such yesterday I was researching fire-resistance rated acoustical ceiling system information and how lighting fixtures are protected to maintain the fire-resistance rating of the ceiling system ...

    I might have a better grasp of them.
    Grasp on tightly, you will be in for the fun ride!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  35. #35
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Grasp on tightly, you will be in for the fun ride!
    JP: I may try duct tape.


  36. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On The Mason-Dixon Line
    Posts
    577

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Anyone can send in a proposal for change/clarification to the code making panels.
    They receive thousands of them over the course of the 3 years.
    They are currently working on the 2011 code cycle so any proposal sent in now goes toward the 2014 cycle.

    If you feel that strongly about the National Electrical Code I would suggest that you start by joining the International Association of Electrical Inspectors.
    NO you need not be an electrical inspector to join or even attend the meetings.

    Get involved!
    Remember if your not part of the solution - you are part of the problem


  37. #37
    John Steinke's Avatar
    John Steinke Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    I can't see any reason for concern.

    Even if there were any sort of 'six ft. rule,' (there is no such rule), it would not be applied across the passageway in the example you show. It's not reasonable to expect that receptacle to serve that counter space in any way.


  38. #38
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    To the original post


    Seriously folks...No matter what the rule or not, the schtinking cat may just want to plug in an old style hair dryer without the GFCI on it to dry himself after a bath.

    Seriously folks. Think of the poor cat. I would guess that the cat would be the only being that would be plugging something into the receptacle.

    Last edited by Ted Menelly; 05-08-2009 at 07:34 PM.

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: GFCI in Kitchen

    Quote Originally Posted by John Steinke View Post
    I can't see any reason for concern.
    I agree.

    I specifically point that out as John and I seldom agree, and in this case we did. Cool.

    Even if there were any sort of 'six ft. rule,' (there is no such rule), it would not be applied across the passageway in the example you show.

    There *was* a 6 foot rule and *it was* applied across like that at that time as the rule was simply "within 6 feet of" and you measured in all directions of the sink's edge for 6 feet.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •