Thread: Romex through sheetrock?

Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle

I drank, it's just not from the same water fountain.

It was the same Mike Holt water fountain where you turned the fountain on and asked all to partake of the water.

The result did not end as you are stating, thus one can only think that you spit your water out without drinking the knowledge in.

But that's cool, you do it your way and the rest of the world will do it the right way.

I think it did end as I was thinking. You posted sections that agreed with you. I posted the ones agreeing with me.

I feel the installation would meet code if the ENT was secured at the wall and secured at the disposal. You don't need j-boxes, weather-tight seals, fire caulk and all that other mumbo jumbo.

I can't help it if all the water you drink goes straight to your head and swells it up so bad that you can't listen to other peoples opinions.

JP said, The result did not end as you are stating.

What did I state? Here is the question on Mike Holt and the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayHeadedMule
I-wire, so are you saying it needs boxes and connectors at each end?

I am saying that would be one way to do it.

I was pointing out that IMO that if your just using the ENT as a sleeve then the NM can not be the support of that ENT and that the NM would have to be supported within 12" of the pig.


Quote:
What if the electrician used the proper fitting at the garbage disposal and secured the ENT at the wall.
It seems that would be code compliant.


Quote:
Would you still use a j-box at the wall or just allow a connector to secure the ENT where the NB goes through the wall?
I think both ways could be done.
__________________


Go ahead, have the final say.... I'm through on this thread. You are always right!

WOW!
This discussion is a great marketting tool for option to hire your architect for construction administration, or even just for final inspection.

Thanks guys!

On any job that we have construction administration on, (many times an architect nevers sees the project after he stamps the plans), there is never an acceptable reason for a wire of any kind to come through a wall without even a face plate! Come on dude, fake me out any way.

Take a step back. Architects and Inspectors are usually working on behalf of the owner/buyer. That means we work in their best interest. Code or no code, what kind of ignorant, lazy, schmuck can see a wire coming through the sheet rock and straight faced tell their client "no worries man, it's cool". In what world is that the way wiring is done properly?

Additionally, using plain words, it really should be obvious to any one, that that little piece of plastic tubing is more trouble than help. A new weak spot has been created by the loose end of the tube itself! Not to mention the movement of the cable and tube against the sheetrock. Oh, I meant to say POTENTIAL movement, it's all obviously sitting still for this photo, and we can't inspect for what might happen.

Hello! YES you can! If the furnace doesn't work, it's not a problem in the summer, but it MIGHT be a problem in the winter. If the wiring isn't grounded, but the lights still come on, it's not a problem now, but it MIGHT cause the house to burn down some day...

If you don't have time to actually look up the code at the very least this should be included as a recommendation. This is substandard work that will result in problems down the road, and is in violation of the code.

Codes are not complicated stuff guys, they're common sense for the most part. If it looks wrong, it probably is. Look it up. And write this crap up! That's what you are being paid to do.

(In my jurisdiction the electrical inspector is so tight he measures the distance between cable restaints by the 1/4". Maybe that's overkill)

Guess you got more answers to question than your brain can take. Just
kidding. Many good answers.

I would write up the blue E.NT. for having no protection fitting at the end
were the romex cable slide into it. Also if the installing wanted attach to
the disposal it would not the correct U.L. Listed fitting on that end.
I know state electrical inspector in my area would write it up, so long as
it put up and away from the common items genera located beneth the
kitchen sink. A box located at the entrance then used the blue E.N.T.
to add greater protection. But if the blue E.N.T was behind the back wall
with protected bushing, that would be okay. It all about cost.
Good Luck Robert

Selective reading results in selective reporting which results in selective enforcement based on false premises.

JP: This should be required to be prominently posted above every AHJ's door and on all municipal inspectors' desks.

Codes are not complicated stuff guys, they're common sense for the most part. If it looks wrong, it probably is. Look it up. And write this crap up! That's what you are being paid to do.

Arch Voyeur: Agreed.

Originally Posted by Bruce Allen

Here’s the code section that would apply:
334.30 Securing and Supporting. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (41⁄2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every cabinet, box, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge.
(B) Unsupported Cables. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable:
(1) Is fished between access points, where concealed in finished buildings or finished panels for prefabricated buildings and supporting is impracticable
(2) Is not more than 1.4 m (41⁄2 ft) from the last point of support for connections within an accessible ceiling to luminaire(s) [lighting fixture(s)] or equipment

Bruce Allen,

That section doesn't allow the NM-B to come forth from its concealed location behind the wall finish through the drywall and cabinet without benefit of a proper box and face into the cabinet exposed and unsuported and connected to the disposal, the conditions aren't met. There is NO fishing between the wall surface and the appliance the cable is accessible when it comes forth from the wall finish a box is required there.


Further it doesn't permit the ENT smurf tubing to be used contrary to its listing. ENT is listed as a SYSTEM manufacturer's instructions, limitations, and specifications are a part of that Listing. ENT SYSTEMS include boxes, fittings, etc.

Chapters 1, 2 & 3 still apply.

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

Yes you probably read this in Article 300 & 334 which has requirements for protecting the cable from physical damage after it has been installed.

300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage
300.6 Protection Against Corrosion and Deterioration
300.11 Securing and Supporting (A) Secured in Place and (C) CAbles Not Used as Means of Support
300.15 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, or Fittings -- Where Required.
300.16 Raceway or Cable to Open or Concealed Wiring
334.15 Exposed Work [which provides that except as provided in 300.11(A)] cable shall be installed as specified in 334.15(A) through (C)

334.17 Through or Parallel to Framing Members
334.24 Bending Radius
334.30 Securing and Supporting

334.116 Sheath
(A) Type NM
(B) Type NMC

Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.

Under the slip joint DWV plumbing in the sink cabinet used for storage IS the location.

The NM is exposed, unsecured, and everything runs downhill to the hole in the wall.

We can backtrack to definitions in article 100...if you'd like I'll be back early next month if the valve replacement is successful (anatomical plumbing not building !) and I'll look in then.

The arguments on the side that this installation as pictured could even remotely be considered "okay" are without merit. The same yahoos would probably argue that an ungarded lamp in a clothes closet is "okay" too or defend NM-B and not NMC-B in an attic, exterior wall serving an outside receptacle or an unconditioned crawlspace.
NM is wrong to use exposed (possibly NMC protected from damage as the code requires) a box at the wall finish, protected and secured as the code requires.

The NEC IS A CODE BOOK, it doesn't become law until Goverment, State or Local write into law. Type NM cable shall be permitted for both exposed and conceale work in a normally dry location. Here we can say
that under normal condition, beneath a sink it normally dry. But every one
can have a opinion.

Jerry Peck, in my opinion has given a sound answer.

Question: why are the Power Company allow to attach wires to a service
Drop, they are smaller than the Service Wires (SE-U cable from
load side of Meter Socket.) ?

Originally Posted by Robert S. Mattison

Question: why are the Power Company allow to attach wires to a service Drop, they are smaller than the Service Wires (SE-U cable from load side of Meter Socket.) ?

Because conductor ventilating in free air (like overhead service drop conductors) have higher amperage ratings, and because the power company goes by different rules - but the ventilating in free air is a large contributing factor.

Thank you Jerry with your very thoughful post, and once again of all the
people I read, your answers have not only be correct but the with detail
that should make sense to other inspector out. Robert

I just return from a job inspection.

Running from the house electrical was some YELLOW JACKET, NM-B cable
running expose, in basement ceiling, than dropping down, thru the foun-
dation, sleeve in black plastic water line pipe, buried below
grade to a water fountain, feel free to comment just this part of the job
in question. Robert

In my area, many well Drilling install wires to the well casing thru water line black plastic pipe, there are no electrical inspection on single family
homes. I come in after the fact. This practice has been going on for
years, without any report of problems. The water in the pipe is the same
wire in run down the well the the submersible pump. All comments are
welcome. Robert

Robert,

If you are referring to the color of the sheathing on the NM cable when you say it is "yellow", then the yellow color indicates it is #12 AWG.

Is cannot be used underground, with or without a raceway.

Black plastic water line pipe is not allowed to be used as a raceway for electrical wiring - regardless of the type of wiring as all electrical wiring requires the raceway to be tested, listed, and labeled for electrical use.

Thanks Jerry for your answer. I am hoping other will comment to.

This brings me to my next question, inspectors, what Jerry saild is 100%
correct. But here in the Great State of Vermont every who buy a screw
driver, wire stripper, etec. can wire a single family home.
So here the question: share your thoughts and experences, when you find
these code volations and how you reported to your customer. THANKS
to all who dare to comment.

"Only by sharing idea's and opinions with are fellow inspectors, will be better inspectors" Robert