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  1. #1
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
    Michael Greenwalt Guest

    Default Inspect or not,,,what say you

    I walked into this today, agent and clients behind me. They asked the question I knew was coming,,,,,are you going to inspect that? That is water on the floor, not a mirage.

    What would you do?

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    No pic............ Whoaaaa, the pic arrived right when I wrote "no pic"

    I'd probably just put my shoes on and make sure my feet didn't get wet, and start writing.


  3. #3
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    I'd probably just put my shoes on and make sure my feet didn't get wet, and start writing.
    I don't think he's talking about writing. I imagine it's the unscrewing of the panel cover while standing in a puddle. I say NO...the job isn't worth your life. I'd report the hazardous conditions and suggest they get the panel inspected once it is safe to do so...basically getting rid of the "bathroom".

    Who the hell lives down there, and are they wearing orange jump suits?


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    I'd look around for a block of wood to throw down and stand on. As long as you can insulate your feet well it's no more dangerous than any other panel. On the other hand, I can't imagine anyone faulting one for not inspecting it. I just hate the flurry of call-backs and re-inspection requests that follow a situation like this if you don't get it done.

    This is why I'd take the time to find a piece of wood or something else insulated to stand on. Once I'm separated from the water I don't feel any less safe than any other panel.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    I think Michael is talking about the Sponge-Bob Squarepants toilet seat cover, and I say, Hell No, I'm not inspecting that!
    You have to draw the line somewhere.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    1) Speaking just for myself, I've got a pair of dielectric boots in the car (I use them primarily as a precaution in wet basements when doing water intrusion inspections), and based on what I can see in that picture, I would inspect the panel.

    2) I think it's entirely reasonable for someone to disclaim the panel, for example you could slip on that wet surface while inspecting it.

    3) I would definitely disclaim that panel it if the water was deep or opaque enough so that I couldn't see the slab.

    4) I would definitely not inspect any panel standing on any material that did not provide a stable footing.

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    There is no need to inspect that panel.

    First, looks to be high enough so that the highest breaker is too high.

    Second, based on the overall front-to-back length of a toilet and the fact that the front of that toilet is out farther from the back wall than the vanity cabinet is, there is insufficient working space in front of the panel.

    Third, with the water on the floor there is risk of electrical shock should one of the things mentioned by the other above happen.

    Fourth, being as the panel needs to be relocated anyway, everything inside is moot as it will all be changed around when the panel is relocated.

    Fifth, that is a "bathroom" by definition and panels are not allowed in bathrooms, so, again, it needs to be relocated.

    Those are just for starters from first looking at the photo. Probably could add more items.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    I have to agree with Matt and Michael on this one. I would do what I could to get the panel done. Piece of wood, shoes, etc. I am not interested in a phone call two days later saying the floor is dry, come back. Regardless of whether the client pays for the return visit because it will probably just screw up my schedule.
    The panel will most likely need work, however I have to disagree with your oversimplification on point #4 Jerry. You are the God of Detail usually but on #4 you sound more like a city inspector.
    I run into this a lot when defending clients against city inspectors. One doesn't have to move the panel, one can choose to remove the 'bathroom'. Setting aside for a minute whatever other problems there might be with the panel, removing the bath would be cheaper for the client.

    www.aic-chicago.com
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    wimp.

    I once stood in the rain under an overflowing gutter with water cascading onto my head to inspect a service equipment panel.


    Of course, as soon as I had the dead-front off, I thought "What am I doing?"

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Nope, I would not touch the panel. My life is worth more than that!

    I would most likely tell my clients that I would be glad to inspect it if they could get he water dried up by the time I'm ready to leave.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    wimp.

    I once stood in the rain under an overflowing gutter with water cascading onto my head to inspect a service equipment panel.


    Of course, as soon as I had the dead-front off, I thought "What am I doing?"

    Been there, done that.

    Also stood in water up to my ankles taking the service equipment cover off and thinking the same thing ... "What am I doing?"

    Hence my addressing the OBVIOUS and, REPORTING that it all needs to be changed, then adopting the "why bother" with the details stance.

    To report each and every detail "in" that panel can easily give the impression of 'Well, if we do not relocate it, we can just fix all these things. Why else would the inspector write them up if he did not expect them to be corrected? So, fix those things on the list and leave that panel there.'

    See why I did not opt for the detail on that one now?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    1) Speaking just for myself, I've got a pair of dielectric boots in the car (I use them primarily as a precaution in wet basements when doing water intrusion inspections), and based on what I can see in that picture, I would inspect the panel..
    I guess I have to get me a pair of those dielctric boots.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Quote Originally Posted by neal lewis View Post
    I guess I have to get me a pair of those dielctric boots.
    Cheap protection, actually, here are some on close-out.

    Super Dielectric 4 Buckle Overshoe Boots(CLOSEOUT SALE) Omark Safety Equipment

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    I'd bring in my fiberglass stepladder, and go ahead. I want to report if the panel is wired correctly, in which case it's a simple plumbing repair. Move the sink and build a wall. Oh and fix that sump pump.


  15. #15
    Jim Curtis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    I also like how the sewer clean-out is completely blocked by the sink vanity!

    Last edited by Jim Curtis; 05-17-2009 at 07:07 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Curtis View Post
    I like how the sewer clean-out is completely blocked by the sink vanity!

    Jim,

    That is what the sink drains into. See it going into the vanity cabinet? I'm going to guess that the sink was not even trapped going into the wye connection.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    All I want to know is, Where is the Toilet Paper?
    Is it within reach of the stool?
    No paper? FAIL


  18. #18
    Jon mackay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    I agree with Jerry.
    Mark the panel as inappropriate location and also note the water hazard. It is not reasonable by any means that this be touched by anyone even though an inspector may understand what precautions must be taken in order to inspect it safely.
    The biggest point to be made is that it needs to be moved or the bathroom needs to be moved.
    I would not concern myself with a callback.


  19. #19
    James Foy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    As a former city inspector:
    I've given the gamut of options when something like this is found, e.g., move the panel, or move the bath, or possibly, there is enough room down there to move the panel to a place where a service closet could be made for it, that leave the bathroom intact at a lower cost than the others.

    My other question is why didn't the contractor slope eveything to the shower drain? Would've saved any puddling by the service panel :-)


  20. #20
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    It looks like a bachelor apartment.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Quote Originally Posted by James Foy View Post
    My other question is why didn't the contractor slope eveything to the shower drain?

    I think they did ... ... if you look carefully you will see a darker square area with a circular lighter shape in the center of the square, underwater, just to the left of the toilet, possibly the sump?

    Damon - that's what the shower is for ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  22. #22
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    Cool Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    when I was you, I once inspected a panel in basement were hip boots, yes I turn off the service. but my panel was not in a basement.

    In the Great State of Vermont, the panel are often installed in unfinish
    cellar/basement. A plumber comes in and installed a bathroom. Must
    plumbers got give a "blank" about electrical codes. Get in and get out.
    Tell the owner, one move the toliet back, two: install a wall so the panel
    is no longer in the basement bathroom area. "the work space in front of
    such equipment should not be less than 3 Ft.". I llike five feet.
    ILLUMINATION: shall be provide for all working spaces about service equip-
    ment, I.E. your home service panel. Distance shall be measure from the enclosure front if panel is encloses. From your picture panel height in my
    state is not a problem, and the A.H.J. is ask to inspect it would pass it.
    As for ground the panel, that another subject. GOOD LUCK Robert


  23. #23
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    Post Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Robert here again. The work basement should read "bathroom", sorry for the type-o.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Truss Guy View Post
    It looks like a bachelor apartment.
    Not a bachelor's apartment for sure. If it was, there would be at least 3 empty beer cans somewhere in the picture.

    Maybe that water is not from the shower, but someone couldn't hit the toilet.

    rick


  25. #25
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    Cool Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Thanks Rick, fo your humor, its a member like you that keep me coming back to read everyone reply's. Robert

    "Some people see things for what they are, other see than for what they
    may be"


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    .....

    Last edited by ken horak; 03-30-2012 at 05:14 PM.

  27. #27
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    Cool Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Hi; Ken Korahl, Robert here.

    NFPA 70E training..

    Violation of a OSHA rule and be find should something happen.

    Yes Arc Flash is bad.

    But in a residental home, are you saying the home owner should not
    even be allow to remove the cover of his own electrical panel, with and
    without the power on?

    Now all inspector must cert. to do this ans were protected clothing.
    If the inspector is self employed?

    Let the comments begin. Robert


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    By taking the cover off a panel that's live you are in Violation of a OSHA rule and can be fined should something happen.

    Not many here are covered by OSHA requirements as OSHA only has jurisdiction over "employers" and when there are no "employees" there is no "employer".

    A Sole Proprietor is not an "employer" and has no "employees" unless they hire someone else to work with them.

    A corporation is not an "employer" if there are no "employees" - officers in the corporation are not considered "employees", and without "employees" there is no "employer" unless they hire someone else to work with them.

    If you have another inspector working for you/with you, then, yes, you have an employee and fall under OSHA guidelines.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  29. #29
    Gary Cox's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Inspect or not,,,what say you

    Man I thought Obama decided not to release those Gitmo pictures!

    GC


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