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  1. #1
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    Default Conduit to plastic box

    Electrician used a plastic box for the receptacle located in the center kitchen island. Used conduit to protect the wiring as it passes through the cabinet and pretty close to the box but because it is a plastic box, he could not physically connect the conduit to the box.

    The conduit runs between the drawer slide and the exterior wall of the cabinet so is somewhat protected. I guess items stored on the sideless drawer could brush against the conduit and tug on the wire.

    If the electrican had used a different box, he could have connected the conduit to the box. He only did part of the job.

    Wadda ya think? A concern or not?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    He only did part of the job.

    Wadda ya think? A concern or not?
    I think you answered it right there with "He only did part of the job.", now let him finish it correctly.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    He was only part electrician - the lower part.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    There was a recent thread on this very thing, only to a garbage disposer - but I couldn't find it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...sheetrock.html

    I think this is the post your speaking of Jerry.

    The contractor/installer dropped the ball here. They should have used a box with 1/2" knockouts, installed a connector on the Liquidtight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit ( LFNC) and attached it to the box. Using proper supports also

    Last edited by ken horak; 05-25-2009 at 05:45 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    Ken,

    Yes, that was the thread I was referring to, thank you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    The contractor/installer dropped the ball here.
    KH: From your past posts defending them, I can see why you would avoid using the term "electrician" whenever it comes to things done wrong by one of them. Just an observation.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    KH: From your past posts defending them, I can see why you would avoid using the term "electrician" whenever it comes to things done wrong by one of them. Just an observation.
    I try to fair to ALL, had I been posting on a plumbing thread I would defend the Plumber when the folks here start their one sided opinions of another's trade.
    I also call out those who do crap work. I use whatever term comes to mind at the moment I'm posting. I'll try and make an effort to state electrician, plumber, home inspector,drywaller when I post from now on
    Maybe I'll just use the term contractor/installer from on ......

    Now I need to go to the other forums and see if I called out the plumbers there as plumbers or contractors/installers.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    OK. So the electrical contractor returned to the scene of the crime. He wants to know a code reference to convince him that the lack of connectors in the original post is a problem.

    NEC 356.30 describes securing and supporting but does not specifically state that the conduit must be attached to the junction box, only that it must be supported with 12 inches.

    NEC 356.30 Securing and Supporting. LFMC-B shall be securely fastened in place and supported in accordance with one of the following:

    (1) Where installed in lengths exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft), the conduit shall be securely fastened at intervals not exceeding 900 mm (3 ft.) and within 300 mm (12 in.) on each side of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting.

    Yeah, it makes common sense that you cannot use a box not designed for liquid tight but I cannot find a specific reference that you must use an approved liquid tight junction box or that the conduit must be secured to the junction box.

    Would 312.4. be the answer?

    (c)A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to protect the cable(s) from abrasion and the fittings remain accessible after installation.
    (d) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end using approved means so as to prevent access to the enclosure through the raceway.
    (f) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at other points in accordance with the applicable article.

    Any NEC code references anyone care to throw at this problem?

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    Bruce,

    Try throwing these at him and see if he understands them:

    - 300.12 Mechanical Continuity Raceways and Cables.
    - - Metal or nonmetallic raceways, cable armors, and cable sheaths shall be continuous between cabinets, boxes, fittings, or other enclosures or outlets.
    - - - Exception No. 1: Short sections of raceways used to provide support or protection of cable assemblies from physical damage shall not be required to be mechanically continuous. (Jerry's note: This allows his "no raceway fittings" method. However, it does not allow his selection of LFNC - Liquidtight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit - for this use. The material he needs to use needs to be approved and rated for protection from physical damage, and FLNC is not so rated or approved.)
    - - - Exception No. 2: Raceways and cables installed into the bottom of open bottom equipment, such as switchboards, motor control centers, and floor or pad-mounted transformers, shall not be required to be mechanically secured to the equipment.

    The above Jerry's note also applies to this:
    - 300.18 Raceway Installations.
    - - (A) Complete Runs. Raceways, other than busways or exposed raceways having hinged or removable covers, shall be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors. Where required to facilitate the installation of utilization equipment, the raceway shall be permitted to be initially installed without a terminating connection at the equipment. Prewired raceway assemblies shall be permitted only where specifically permitted in this Code for the applicable wiring method.
    - - - Exception: Short sections of raceways used to contain conductors or cable assemblies for protection from physical damage shall not be required to be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing points.

    The only place in the code which addresses raceways suitable for use for protection from physical damage is here:
    - 300.5 Underground Installations.
    - - (D) Protection from Damage. Direct-buried conductors and cables shall be protected from damage in accordance with 300.5(D)(1) through (D)(4).
    - - - (4) Enclosure or Raceway Damage. Where the enclosure or raceway is subject to physical damage, the conductors shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, or equivalent.

    Thus, if the electrician wants to use that as protection from physical damage and avoid the continuous run, then let the electrician use a raceway approved for providing that protection.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Conduit to plastic box

    Well, I called the electrical contractor this morning. I explained that I just wanted him to connect the conduit to the box. His response was they don't make a box to connect liquid tight conduit.

    After some discussion, I suggested he refer to NEC 356.12.1 that states he can't use liquidtight conduit in this application and it would be much easier if he just made a proper connection. Some more discussion and he says he will call back.

    Shortly he calls back and says he spoke with the city inspector and although the code specifcally states it is the wrong material, the inspector will accept it. I called the inspector and he said that he agreed it does not meet code but felt it is adequate protection. I called the chief inspector for the city and asked if they would issue a written statement regarding the exception. He responded that the final inspection is the only documentation he is going to provide indicating the house is acceptable.

    The AHJ has verbally approved the materials and installation but are unwilling to document the acceptance of the exception.

    I placed a call with the state electrical inspector before I had spoken with the city inspector. He is unavailable until later today. Will probably ask a more generic question along the lines of getting written documents for exceptions to code.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

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