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Thread: Service box

  1. #1
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Service box

    Additional breakers have been added to the service box. About 8 Romex cables are running through the conduit, used for heat tape and AC. Is this acceptable.

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  2. #2
    Fred Warner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Service box

    In addition to other obvious code and safety violations, non-metallic cable is not permitted in conduit that is outside. Conduit interiors are considered outside when the conduit is installed outside. NM-B cable is intended for interior, dry locations.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Service box

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    About 8 Romex cables
    used for heat tape and AC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Warner View Post
    non-metallic cable is not permitted in conduit that is outside. Conduit interiors are considered outside when the conduit is installed outside. NM-B cable is intended for interior, dry locations.
    Fred,

    Not to worry, with 8 NM cables in there for heat tape, they will heat that conduit up and keep it dry as a bone in there.

    Not to mention the 16 conductors and derating or anything else ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
    Fred Warner's Avatar
    Fred Warner Guest

    Default Re: Service box

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Fred,

    Not to worry, with 8 NM cables in there for heat tape, they will heat that conduit up and keep it dry as a bone in there.

    Not to mention the 16 conductors and derating or anything else ...
    I see what you mean...........


  5. #5
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: Service box

    So to summarize, the NM cable in the conduit should not be in that type of conduit if located on the exterior.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Service box

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    So to summarize, the NM cable in the conduit should not be in that type of conduit if located on the exterior.
    No.

    To rephrase: That NM cable should not be NM cable.

    NM cable is not approved for use in other than dry locations, and exterior electrical conduits are presumed to be other than dry locations (damp locations), which means that one would need to either run UF in that conduit (yecch! and no way!) or THWN (or similar) conductors in that conduit. I would stay away from UF in there.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Service box

    Conduit outside is considered a wet location in all circumstances. NM-B (Romex) is not allowed to be installed in a wet location in ANY circumstances.

    The situation here is one often overlooked by inspectors in the past as they somehow viewed this particular installation as "damp" rather than wet because the conduit isn't a "system" but rather a short run installed for protection and unlikely to accumulate moisture inside to any significant degree. Whether the conduit is two feet or longer for derating and fill issues and lack of a clamp where the cable enters the box are additional issues with the install. The 2008 NEC closed any percieved loopholes on what constitutes a "wet" location

    Right or wrong, this is a pretty common install. In all honesty, I'd see what the AHJ's position was on this type of install and what code version was in use at the time.

    The bottom line is it isn't quite up to par.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Service box

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kriegh View Post
    The situation here is one often overlooked by inspectors in the past as they somehow viewed this particular installation as "damp" rather than wet ...
    Bill,

    As I am sure you are aware, considering that a "damp" location still precludes NM cable from being run in that conduit.

    Your wording implied that NM cable is allowed in "damp" locations but not in "wet" locations, where in fact NM cable is not allowed in either damp or wet locations.

    From the 2008 NEC.
    - 334.12 Uses Not Permitted.
    - - (A) Types NM, NMC, and NMS. Types NM, NMC, and NMS cables shall not be permitted as follows:
    - - - (1) In any dwelling or structure not specifically permitted in 334.10(1), (2), and (3)
    - - - - Exception: Type NM, NMC, and NMS cable shall be permitted in Type I and II construction when installed within raceways permitted to be installed in Type I and II construction.
    - - - (2) Exposed in dropped or suspended ceilings in other than one- and two-family and multifamily dwellings
    - - - (3) As service-entrance cable
    - - - (4) In commercial garages having hazardous (classified) locations as defined in 511.3
    - - - (5) In theaters and similar locations, except where permitted in 518.4(B)
    - - - (6) In motion picture studios
    - - - (7) In storage battery rooms
    - - - (8) In hoistways or on elevators or escalators
    - - - (9) Embedded in poured cement, concrete, or aggregate
    - - - (10) In hazardous (classified) locations, except where permitted by the following:
    - - - - a. 501.10(B)(3)
    - - - - b. 502.10(B)(3)
    - - - - c. 504.20
    - - (B) Types NM and NMS. Types NM and NMS cables shall not be used under the following conditions or in the following locations:
    - - - (1) Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors
    - - - (2) Where embedded in masonry, concrete, adobe, fill, or plaster
    - - - (3) In a shallow chase in masonry, concrete, or adobe and covered with plaster, adobe, or similar finish
    - - - (4) In wet or damp locations

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: Service box

    Thank you for the clearification.


  10. #10
    Fred Warner's Avatar
    Fred Warner Guest

    Default Re: Service box

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Thank you for the clearification.
    No problem. Continually clarifying clearifications clearly is a clarion call.


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