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  1. #1
    Jim Adams's Avatar
    Jim Adams Guest

    Default Help with verbiage

    This is an old 60 amp panel, too small. Appears they have tapped into the main service (red wire). Interesting splice, never seen that before etc etc. Lots of no no's here. Looking for some succinct verbiage that can convey importance of correcting this. The buyer seemed confused with what I told him.

    Thanks,
    Jim

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Adams View Post
    This is an old 60 amp panel, too small. Appears they have tapped into the main service (red wire). Interesting splice, never seen that before etc etc. Lots of no no's here. Looking for some succinct verbiage that can convey importance of correcting this. The buyer seemed confused with what I told him.

    Thanks,
    Jim
    Jim, post what you want to say and let us help (Wordsmith) you with your statement.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    I have one that is like this. See the attachment. Its rusted inside Very old and has just out lived it day along with all the No No's.

    Best

    Ron

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Apologies to the OP.

    Come on Jerry, this does not need help with verbiage. The OP needs to take some additional educational classes before writing anything about this. Isn't there a SOP requirement that you do so many inspections under a more knowledgeable inspector?

    From the wording of the post asking for help they can't even identify that this is not a 60 amp service. Look at the size of the 2 black conductors into the top lugs. No way could that be taken for #6. Did they recognize that this is a split buss panel and the ampacity would be based on the conductor size feeding it, not the 60 amp that feeds the lower buss? What criteria was used to determine that the panel was too small?

    Interesting splice? Never seen a split bolt connector?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Adams View Post
    This is an old 60 amp panel, too small. Appears they have tapped into the main service (red wire). Interesting splice, never seen that before etc etc. Lots of no no's here. Looking for some succinct verbiage that can convey importance of correcting this. The buyer seemed confused with what I told him.

    Thanks,
    Jim
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Apologies to the OP.

    Come on Jerry, this does not need help with verbiage. The OP needs to take some additional educational classes before writing anything about this. Isn't there a SOP requirement that you do so many inspections under a more knowledgeable inspector?

    From the wording of the post asking for help they can't even identify that this is not a 60 amp service. Look at the size of the 2 black conductors into the top lugs. No way could that be taken for #6. Did they recognize that this is a split buss panel and the ampacity would be based on the conductor size feeding it, not the 60 amp that feeds the lower buss? What criteria was used to determine that the panel was too small?

    Interesting splice? Never seen a split bolt connector?
    Jim,

    You need to go back and re-read the original post (also quoted above) and then re-read your post, and then let us know where you screwed up and need "to take some additional educational classes before writing anything ... ".

    If you 'don't get' what the difference are, let me know and I will help you out.

    Sheesh, the man (Jim Port) cannot even read, or if he can, he does not understand what he reads, or if he does he just responds with what he wants to say without regard to what was actually stated.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Jim Adams's Avatar
    Jim Adams Guest

    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Jerry,
    Thanks for your succinct reply to Jim. Had you not intervened I may have knee jerk reacted and responded in kind. The one thought that did come to mind was..................." I wish I knew only half of what Jim thinks he knows"
    For the record, my client really didn't understand the importance of the comments I was making............. So, I thought maybe someone would have a different way of explaining FUBAR..

    Jim


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Jim (Adams).

    Following that red wire down to the blue wire at that lug, and then down to the bottom, it goes to a 3-pole breaker, which indicates that the service is a 3-phase service with that red conductor supplying only the bottom breaker, which may go to a 3-phase a/c system.

    I have seen this many times (but not in service equipment like that, in different looking service equipment but similar in set up) in Miami in the older sections of Coral Gables where there was 3-phase service to the house and the only 3-phase equipment was the a/c system. When replaced, many a/c contractors simply replaced with single phase systems and abandoned the 3-phase wiring (abandoning that third phase conductor).

    Yes, there are many other things in there, but apparently Jimbo Port (I am using Jimbo as he apparently has no usefulness, like the couple of other Jimbos I've known in the past) did not even recognize that 3-pole breaker.

    Hard to tell you about all the things wrong in there, but that is a split bus panel with a 3-phase breaker at the bottom, which is unusual. I would write up everything you found, note the 3-pole breaker and 3-phase at the bottom, note what it went to (if it was even labeled), then recommend the electrician correct everything you found, anything else they find, and anything they create while making those repairs.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Jim Adams's Avatar
    Jim Adams Guest

    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Thanks, Jerry. You are correct the 3 phase goes to an AC coil. I did refer them to an electrician to correct that and many other issues. I also called for the service provider to take a look at what appears to be a double tap at the service (red wire).

    Jim


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Sorry I didn't follow all the way down to the the 3 pole breaker. When someone can't even identify a panel size correctly, or identify a common connector it makes you wonder if they have any idea of what they are looking at. Doesn't help the case when technical terms like "too small" are used without stating the basis for that judgement.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Sorry I didn't follow all the way down to the the 3 pole breaker. When someone can't even identify a panel size correctly, or identify a common connector it makes you wonder if they have any idea of what they are looking at. Doesn't help the case when technical terms like "too small" are used without stating the basis for that judgement.

    When someone posts as you did "it makes you wonder if they have any idea of what they are" doing. Actually, it no longer makes me wonder, it confirms ... that they do not.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Hey guys, Aside from all the other good stuff in there. That panel looks an awful lot like a Zinsco dosen't it or am I color blind


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    .
    That panel looks an awful lot like a Zinsco dosen't it
    .
    .
    Nope.
    .
    No Twin L's for the Buss Bar
    .
    or am I color blind
    .
    .
    * eye strain from that Cindy Crawford thread.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post

    Hey guys, Aside from all the other good stuff in there. That panel looks an awful lot like a Zinsco dosen't it or am I color blind
    .
    Oops,

    Ron's Post Is.
    .
    Jim's is not.

    .

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Help with verbiage

    That figures, I was looking at the wrong panel. I wonder if I did that at my inspection today? Damb!
    Too many, Too many this week


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