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  1. #1
    Jim Adams's Avatar
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    Default Splice inside the panel

    Never have seen this before. 12 AWG coming off a 15 amp breaker and spliced to #2 stranded, going to a 110 air handler. If the splice is good, is it still hazardous? Doesn't look good to me.

    Jim

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    From my perspective I would assume someone ran a circuit before they knew what was required. Folks try to have us do this quite often.
    They then found out that the appliance only required a 20A circuit and they were stuck with #6 SER run for the circuit. The #6 will not fit into a 20A C-H CH series breaker. Very little choice than to do what was done.
    I don't think you can blame the electrician in this case because why would he run wire that cost five times more than what was needed?

    The one thing I do not like is that IF that is AL wire (the larger) that splice is NO GOOD!


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    From my perspective I would assume someone ran a circuit before they knew what was required. Folks try to have us do this quite often.
    They then found out that the appliance only required a 20A circuit and they were stuck with #6 SER run for the circuit. The #6 will not fit into a 20A C-H CH series breaker. Very little choice than to do what was done.
    I don't think you can blame the electrician in this case because why would he run wire that cost five times more than what was needed?

    The one thing I do not like is that IF that is AL wire (the larger) that splice is NO GOOD!
    Pete, was this an over sight? "12 AWG coming off a 15 amp breaker "????


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    12AWG copper is rated for 20 amps. Perfectly fine to put it on a 15 amp breaker.
    Your just over sizing the conductor that's all.
    If the conductors are both copper and the wirenut is rated for those size conductors everything is ok.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    My bad, read it basackwards


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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Happens to the best of us


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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    The one thing I do not like is that IF that is AL wire (the larger) that splice is NO GOOD!
    That would be the key thing, for sure - mixing aluminum and copper in a wire nut is not good.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    It might not be an issue in Phoenix, but I really like to see wire nuts with the open end down and no tape to help prevent any moisture accumulation. I have found this to be a problem in more than one exterior panel.

    Just something to watch for, no rules about this anywhere I'm aware of.


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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kriegh View Post
    It might not be an issue in Phoenix, but I really like to see wire nuts with the open end down and no tape to help prevent any moisture accumulation. I have found this to be a problem in more than one exterior panel.

    Just something to watch for, no rules about this anywhere I'm aware of.
    There is a better connector to use for this type of splice. It has two setscrews, one for each wire and is waterproof. Anybody know the name?


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    there is no way that is correct...that #2 wire can not be tied to the #15, the #15 can not handle the current from the #2....look at the #15 closer, that whitish coloring to the black sheathing is indication the wire is overheating.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Hurt;91868

    there is no way that is correct...that #2 wire can not be tied to the #15, the #15 can not handle the current from the #2....look at the #15 closer, that whitish coloring to the black sheathing is indication the wire is overheating.
    .
    Scott,

    I think the # 15 is the feeder wire and the # 2 is used as the branch circuit wire.
    .

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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Scott, Billy,

    It's not a "#15" either. It is either a #12 AWG or a #14 AWG.

    As long as the wire nut is rated for that combination (and it may be) then it is okay because, as Billy pointed out, the smaller conductor size is the feed from the breaker, and as long as the breaker is sized to the smaller conductor, then it is okay ... provided that size combination is allowed in that wire connector.

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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Scott, Billy,

    It's not a "#15" either. It is either a #12 AWG or a #14 AWG.
    .
    .
    Check & Double Check.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  14. #14
    Jim Katen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    There is a better connector to use for this type of splice. It has two setscrews, one for each wire and is waterproof. Anybody know the name?
    Are you thinking of a Polaris Connector?

    - Jim Katen, Oregon


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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Katen View Post
    Are you thinking of a Polaris Connector?

    - Jim Katen, Oregon
    Yes I am. Thanks Jim.

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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    With those polaris connectors keep in mind the black ones are not rated for submersion
    ( water proof) The blue ones they make are rated for submersion.

    I can't imagine anyone spending the money for a polaris connector when a 20 cent wire wirenut does the job just as well in this instance. Those polaris connectors are not inexpensive


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    With those polaris connectors keep in mind the black ones are not rated for submersion
    ( water proof) The blue ones they make are rated for submersion.

    I can't imagine anyone spending the money for a polaris connector when a 20 cent wire wirenut does the job just as well in this instance. Those polaris connectors are not inexpensive
    OK Ken, I think you are saying that a wire nut makes an adequate connection for joining a # 12 to a # 6. Would you recommend having that connection checked by an electrician?

    We don't know if that stranded wire is Al, in which case a wire nut will not do.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    John
    So correct. Thats what I stated in my original post aluminum and copper no good in the wire nut.
    If it is Aluminum one could also use a split bolt that is both copper and aluminum rated.
    If used correctly the 2 wires will not be in contact with each other. They would be separated by the little separation bar that is to be installed between the conductors.
    That and some rubber tape followed by vinyl tape and you are good to go.
    Just throwing out another option


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    John
    So correct. Thats what I stated in my original post aluminum and copper no good in the wire nut.
    If it is Aluminum one could also use a split bolt that is both copper and aluminum rated.
    If used correctly the 2 wires will not be in contact with each other. They would be separated by the little separation bar that is to be installed between the conductors.
    That and some rubber tape followed by vinyl tape and you are good to go.
    Just throwing out another option
    OK, I like the split bolt, except for one thing. It becomes an unrecognizable blob of tape, which looks flaky to HI's. Please leave your card with a message describing what's under the tape so I don't look stupid calling for an electrician to check it.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Please leave your card with a message describing what's under the tape so I don't look stupid calling for an electrician to check it.

    I had to delete my response to this one.

    Just let us know where to send the bill every time we do this for you. After all, the card will need to be laminated and permanantly attached and this is gonna be an upcharge .


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Splice inside the panel

    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    If it is Aluminum one could also use a split bolt that is both copper and aluminum rated.
    If used correctly the 2 wires will not be in contact with each other. They would be separated by the little separation bar that is to be installed between the conductors.
    That and some rubber tape followed by vinyl tape and you are good to go.
    Just throwing out another option
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    OK, I like the split bolt, except for one thing. It becomes an unrecognizable blob of tape, which looks flaky to HI's. Please leave your card with a message describing what's under the tape so I don't look stupid calling for an electrician to check it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kriegh View Post
    Please leave your card with a message describing what's under the tape so I don't look stupid calling for an electrician to check it.

    I had to delete my response to this one.

    Just let us know where to send the bill every time we do this for you. After all, the card will need to be laminated and permanantly attached and this is gonna be an upcharge .
    Not going to happen.

    The HI writes up stuff in the panel and states "While your friggin' arse is there, eat your upcharge and VERIFY that the split bolt connector IS PROPERLY insulated."

    Bill, your post was uncalled for, just trying to cut John down, so stuff it and DO IT WHILE YOU ARE THERE, after all, the HI should be stating "VERIFY" that the split bolt connector IS PROPERLY insulated".

    If there is any doubt, there is nothing wrong with calling for REAL electrician to VERIFY what is there.

    However the REAL electrician wants to verify that to their satisfaction, that is up to each real electrician.

    Sorry about that, but you set that one up and pitched it right across the plate.

    That should have already been in your price.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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