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  1. #1
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    Default #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    Does anyone out there know if there is, or was a tap rule in the NEC code
    book, that allow an electrician to run 12-2/ground for the circuit, but when they made up the boxes, they would splice on #14 wire that would
    then connect to a 15 amp. rated, duplex receptacle.

    THANKS

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    That's okay ... as long as the breaker is 15 amps.

    There was a recent thread on this same question, but I don't recall the exact result, it seems to me that the result may even have been that they were allowed to tap off with that #14 to the 15 amp receptacle - just don't remember right now.

    Will have to look it up later.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    Jerry thanks for your recent post with your answer.

    Yes, I would like to know more, on the question you are going to look
    up later.


  4. #4
    John Steinke's Avatar
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    As long as that's a 15 amp breaker, you can run any wire #14 or larger.

    Point of vocabulary, that's not a "tap." A tap is when the wire is smaller than what is usually allowed for the breaker feeding the circuit.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    Robert,

    I'm either having a brain fart or I cannot find what I was thinking about in the NEC.

    Which means as I said, and John followed with too, using 14 AWG off 12 AWG to a receptacle is allowed as long as the breaker is 15 amp and not 20 amp rated.

    Also, my search here did not turn up the previous thread, but other here seem to be able to search this board better than I do, so maybe they will find the other thread.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6

    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...p-circuit.html

    Jerry,

    Go to search>advanced search>user name (when you know you responded to a post you are looking for)> and type a couple of key words that you know will be in the post (I put you under the user name, pigtail/ 14 gauge under the key words, and voila)


  7. #7
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    Brandon,

    You also confirmed my suspicions ... I thought Robert started that thread too... and he did.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    Some old school sparkys did this as common practice.

    This is NOT to say it was ever right or code complaint, OR that I have ever done this or condone it. In fact I hate seeing this.
    I either think hack, handyman or DIY when I see it.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    John Steinke

    Thank for your post.

    But the NEC code rule on taps is a bit confusing.

    Today while out, I ask two License Electrician and got two different answers.


    Again, thanks to all who took the time to post an answer


    "THE MORE I LEARN THE LESS I KNOW"


  10. #10
    John Steinke's Avatar
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    "Tap rules" are something best left to those who are allowed to sign off on prints. The NEC has several situations where you are allowed to use a small wire to 'tap off of' a big wire, and the exact rule depends on the exact details of the application.

    It should be enough to point out that these "tap rules" have absolutely nothing to do with branch circuits; they are for feeders only. About the only time an HI encounters a 'feeder' is when there's a second panel involved .... and it would be a very rare situation where any 'tap rule' could be applied.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    Thanks John Steinke, thanks for your recent post.

    20 amp. circuit breaker protects #12 wire all the way, to were it's con-
    nected to the duplex receptacle. NEC code would permit a 15 amp. or
    20 amp. duplex receptacle with this circuit. And only a single 15 amp.
    single receptacle. All wiring, including pigtails must be #12 wire.

    15 amp. circuit breaker protects #14 wire all the way to were it's con-
    nected to the duplex recetpacle. NEC code only permits a 15 amp.
    duplex receptacle here. And only 15 amp. single receptacle.
    A pigtail made up, is most alway #14 wire, but there nothing
    in the NEC code that would prohibits the use of #12.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtail off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert S. Mattison View Post
    20 amp. circuit breaker protects #12 wire all the way, to were it's connected to the duplex receptacle. NEC code would permit a 15 amp. or 20 amp. duplex receptacle with this circuit. And only a single 15 amp. single receptacle. All wiring, including pigtails must be #12 wire.
    Nope.

    If there is more than one receptacle on a 20 amp protected circuit, the receptacle outlets are allowed to be 15 amp rated receptacles.

    However, if there is only one receptacle on the circuit, the receptacle is to be the rating of the overcurrent protection ... or higher. The receptacle is allowed to have a higher rating as the lower rating of the overcurrent protection will protect it, whereas a higher rated overcurrent device would not protect the lower rated single receptacle.

    15 amp. circuit breaker protects #14 wire all the way to were it's connected to the duplex receptacle. NEC code only permits a 15 amp. duplex receptacle here.
    Correct.

    And only 15 amp. single receptacle.
    Nope. Like my example above, you would have a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit, or a 30 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit, the 15 amp overcurrent protection will trip and protect the higher rated receptacle outlet.

    A pigtail made up, is most alway #14 wire, but there nothing in the NEC code that would prohibits the use of #12.
    Kinda sorta right ... the 14 AWG needs to be protected by a 15 amp OR LOWER rated overcurrent protective device. A 12 AWG needs to be protect by a 20 amp OR LOWER rated overcurrent device. The overcurrent protection needs to be the LOWEST rating of all ratings: conductor, receptacle outlet, overcurrent protection.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: #14 wire pigtial off #12, with 20 A. breaker

    Jerry, a big thanks.

    Sometimes, I have to put it down in writing, so others can see.

    And then they can correct me, were I got it wrong, when it comes to
    that, (blank), NEC code book.



    To me the Code Book is like the story of the elephant and the three blind men...


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