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  1. #1
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    Default Light fixtures in showers

    What is the NEC requirement for open bulbs in shower/steam showers?

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  2. #2
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    NEC 410.4 .........shall be installed so that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments,........


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    The trim must be Damp Location rated and the bulb needs to be listed as acceptable with that trim. There are open trims that will meet this requirement.


  4. #4
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    (A) Wet and Damp Locations. Luminaires installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed such that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lampholders, or other electrical parts. All luminaires installed in wet locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations.” All luminaires installed in damp locations shall be marked “Suitable for Wet Locations” or “Suitable for Damp Locations.”

    That means UL listed for damp locations.

    Additionally, some manufacturers require GFCI protection for luminaires installed in shower stalls and over tubs.

    http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatal.../1015878_4.pdf


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    I am of the opinion that a steam shower zone or sauna zone is by its very nature a wet location under the NEC. Thought I'd say that first, since you asked about steam shower and open lamp fixture.

    It depends. Height of that ceiling, relationship to the floor of the bathroom as well as the floor drain of the shower, and the height of the shower threshold or bathtub rim. Depends on if that fixture is subject to shower spray (mounted shower head movable or shower wand). Steam and jet showers little more dicey depending on height from shower threshold floor esp. if lower alcove. Condensation collection in the lamp holder often of issue even if not subject to spray can require wet zone and lense for safety. GFCI protection depending on height and accessibility from floor and if not non-conductive trim & lense if its too close (short height tiled ceiling over shower) - if having to be in the "wet zone" to service/change lamp and ceiling height less than 7 feet above shower threshold floor probably should be wet indoor fixture non conductive trim & lense and GFCI protected esp in STEAM shower for safety.

    2008 NEC you'll find general references 410.10 (A) & 410.10 (D). 2005 NEC 410.4 (A) and 410.4 (D). Definitions of Locations, Dry; Locations, Damp; and Locations, Wet are found in General Definitions in the 100 area.

    Remember that by the nature of the thing - tiled showers are washed walls. Tough to judge height when walls are tiled to ceiling and ceiling is tiled - usually that's an indication that condensation collects regularly on the ceiling (steam shower right) during regular use and/or water spray even if indirectly from bouncing off the user's body hits that ceiling - perhaps due to short clearance or by the nature of the thing, thus a wet zone not just a damp one; although it could be a decorating decision on a non-steam shower with a fixed non-adjustable shower head with plenty of clearance - can't tell from the picture.

    Finally - check the listing and labeling for the lamp itself - some packaging will state damp or wet location use - only when protected from direct contact or requiring a lense, guard or cover - ex. any liquid water coming into contact with the hot lamp itself while in use may cause it to shatter - thus endangering the party in the shower with a "rain" of glass shards. (similar to luminaires in clothes closets - more than one reason to require guard).

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 12-05-2009 at 03:48 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    I am of the opinion that a steam shower zone or sauna zone is by its very nature a wet location under the NEC.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    Department of Redundancy Department
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    I ran into a question like that a few weeks back.
    On the manufacturer site is this statement.......All trims are suitable for damp locations; only shower trims are listed for wet locations.

    can light trim.jpgspalight [1024x768].jpg

    Notice inside it says damp location.
    I called this out and the developer reordered a glass trim to replace the one I removed in the picture.

    You want those bulbs covered if within 3 feet of the tub/shower and less than 8 feet up from where your feet stand.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post

    You want those bulbs covered if within 3 feet of the tub/shower and less than 8 feet up from where your feet stand.
    This is fine, but it is not always required. See post #3.
    An open recessed light is perfectly complaint over most "typical" standard showers/tubs, although this is rarely seen.

    IF the light is subject to shower spray then it MUST be wet location rated.


    I am also of the opinion that if this is a true sealed steam shower then to me that would create a condition allowing water to collect due to the extreme moisture. Sure, a really hot shower would be similar, but nowhere near the intensity of a closed steam shower.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    This is fine, but it is not always required. See post #3.
    An open recessed light is perfectly complaint over most "typical" standard showers/tubs, although this is rarely seen.

    IF the light is subject to shower spray then it MUST be wet location rated.


    I am also of the opinion that if this is a true sealed steam shower then to me that would create a condition allowing water to collect due to the extreme moisture. Sure, a really hot shower would be similar, but nowhere near the intensity of a closed steam shower.
    Hi Speedy
    We miss you at NACHI and Nick nominated you to post directly.

    Back to subject I would always like to see a cover over the bulb as people might put the wrong one in ,like say an incandescent that will shatter and spray glass all over you while naked.
    Yes nanny subject ,but people can be stupid or not know any better.
    I was happy to see the developer took my advice on the final walkthough the other day.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Nick nominated you to post directly.
    ????? - You have to be "nominated" to post on the board. What's up with that? I don't follow the "pissing matches" too closely but it's funny there's a restriction to posting when the word on the street is that there's pretty much none to being a master, grand poo-bah inspector.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    ????? - You have to be "nominated" to post on the board. What's up with that? I don't follow the "pissing matches" too closely but it's funny there's a restriction to posting when the word on the street is that there's pretty much none to being a master, grand poo-bah inspector.
    Slow down on what ever you are smoking ,as this is a systems thread.
    Please take your rhetoric to an appropriate thread,or are you a troll.?

    Would you like to show off your Inspection skills and add something that actually helps Richard here?
    Thank you

    My email is listed and you can PM if you have some personal demon that needs a rage outlet.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    I am of the opinion that a steam shower zone or sauna zone is by its very nature a wet location under the NEC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    I was thinking the same thing.
    My thoughts too.

    A shower is bad enough, tiled all over is worse, a steam shower will cover the entire shower area with water, making it a wet location, not a damp location.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Slow down on what ever you are smoking ,as this is a systems thread.
    Please take your rhetoric to an appropriate thread,or are you a troll.?

    Would you like to show off your Inspection skills and add something that actually helps Richard here?
    Thank you

    My email is listed and you can PM if you have some personal demon that needs a rage outlet.
    No rage or need for emails or PMs..... I'm just intrigued by the need to be "nominated" to post on a message board. What exactly does that mean?


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Apparently I've gotten gun shy and/or wordy.

    When I checked back to read the updates on this topic thread, an Inter-Nachi banner ad appeared. This is a shower/steam shower thread and I feel so dirty (I need a shower now!)

    Guess that means that someone has agreed to PAY B.H. for advertising.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    "The goal of Hann Tech Marketing Links / InspectionNews is to have peaceful, educational and informative discussions related to the inspection business. Please discuss the topics and do not get into personality conflicts and/or arguments.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post

    When I checked back to read the updates on this topic thread, an Inter-Nachi banner ad appeared. This is a shower/steam shower thread and I feel so dirty (I need a shower now!)

    Guess that means that someone has agreed to PAY B.H. for advertising.

    Kudos to Brian for getting $s from ole nicko.
    Kinda reminds me of Fox News advertizing the Oboma head that grows hair.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
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  17. #17
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    "The goal of Hann Tech Marketing Links / InspectionNews is to have peaceful, educational and informative discussions related to the inspection business. Please discuss the topics and do not get into personality conflicts and/or arguments.
    BE: BH (aka the Hann) is a nice guy, sometimes, but has an appalling lack of understanding of the definition of "arguments", as apparently do you. If you own a dictionary, please peruse the two terms "discussion" and "argument", all the while juxtaposing the nuances of their meanings. Come back to us when your finished for your next assignment.


  18. #18
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Well I did not have to look up discussion or argument, but I did have to look up "juxtaposing"

    So for others (if any) who might not know the meaning.
    juxtaposing: to place close together or side by side, esp. for comparison or contrast.

    Arron, you must be Bill O'Reillly fan, you know the word of the day thing he does .


  19. #19
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Arron, you must be Bill O'Reillly fan,
    CM: It is AARON and not Arron. And no, I am not a fan of the moron mentioned.


  20. #20
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    CM: It is AARON and not Arron. And no, I am not a fan of the moron mentioned.
    Sorry Aaron, my bad...... on both .


  21. #21
    archivoyeur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    BE: BH (aka the Hann) is a nice guy, sometimes, but has an appalling lack of understanding of the definition of "arguments", as apparently do you. If you own a dictionary, please peruse the two terms "discussion" and "argument", all the while juxtaposing the nuances of their meanings. Come back to us when your finished for your next assignment.
    Ahhh, the euphonic sonority of tangent excogitations; the ebullient alacrity derived from hermeneutic ruminations of peripheral conceits...I have been away too long....


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by archivoyeur View Post
    Ahhh, the euphonic sonority of tangent excogitations; the ebullient alacrity derived from hermeneutic ruminations of peripheral conceits.
    What you say?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  23. #23
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Light fixtures in showers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    What you say?
    JP: He's had too much Romulan ale, causing him to trip and fall ass first into his thesaurus.


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