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  1. #1
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    Default Cord through ceiling

    Everything at this inspection looks like it has been done by a qualified electrician. That is why I am questioning my first thoughts on the cord extensions coming down through the ceiling drywall in the garage/work shop. The cord is clamped at the junction box in the attic and has a strain relief (Chinese finger cuffs) attached. The only thing that looks wrong is that it penetrates the ceiling drywall. Question #1. is this against Code? #2. If it is, is it really a hazard?

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    It's wrong.

    "Section 400-8 Uses Not Permitted: Unless specifically permitted on Section 400-7, flexible cords shall not be used (1) as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure; (2) where run through holes in walls, ceilings, or floors... (5) where concealed behind building walls, ceilings, or floors; or (6) where installed raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code."


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Thanks Brandon. Thats the way I remembered it, so recommended J-box be brought to inside side of ceiling.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Thanks Brandon. Thats the way I remembered it, so recommended J-box be brought to inside side of ceiling.

    Vern,

    The junction box only addresses the easier part of the question.

    You also need to address the improper use of the cord, which needs to be replaced with a wiring method approved for permanent wiring installation.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Cobra Cook's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Cord through ceiling

    Should be hard wired with proper wire. A receptacle should be installed instead of just a rubber cord connection, assuming that this cord was going to be used for an automatic door opener.


  6. #6
    John Steinke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    A "drop cord' is not, by itself, wrong. Especially since this is a workshop, I don't think the 'subsitute for permanent wiring' issue comes into play.

    Passing through a hole in the ceiling, though, is a violation- and simply adding a junction box isn't going to fix it.

    Why? Because there's a splice or junction box concealed above that ceiling. Since this is a converted garage, that box is probably not accessible through the attic either.


  7. #7
    Shawn Willy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    I am not here to argue with the experts here but I would call this boarderline. IF the JB is flush with the other side of the drywall and still has its opening accessible, this seems ok. It is the right cord and if it wasn't going to be a drop plug with a receptacle, this is pretty close. You can see the horsecock through the drywall so it has to be mounted somewhere really close. Mind you if this is all the case, the horsecock won't be able to provide a lot of strain relief.

    Its a pretty simple fix to make it 'right'


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    I'm assuming that gara door power opener will be powered from elsewhere?

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    I'd simply suggest installing permanent wiring and move on.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Vern,

    The junction box only addresses the easier part of the question.

    You also need to address the improper use of the cord, which needs to be replaced with a wiring method approved for permanent wiring installation.

    There are two of these installed for powering equipment in the shop. I have seen flexible drop cords in restaurants and other industrial locations. I think 368.56 (B) covers it. If the J-box was on the ceiling rather than in the attic it looks like all of the requirements would be covered.

    Let me know what I missed. The rest of this thread is for learning as the report is on its way through cyberspace with recommend to move J-box to ceiling side.


  11. #11
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Willy View Post
    You can see the horsecock through the drywall so it has to be mounted somewhere really close.
    This is a serious question. What exactly is this referring to.

    I am defiantly not doing a google search for this one .


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    This is a serious question. What exactly is this referring to.

    I am defiantly not doing a google search for this one .
    Chris, I think he is referring to the strain relief that looks like Chinese finger cuffs.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Like above, just mention electrical cords are not permanent conductors and should not be going through walls or ceilings.
    Also like Michael feel like it is used for the garage door opener from the picture , but I am sure you checked.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Like above, just mention electrical cords are not permanent conductors and should not be going through walls or ceilings.
    Also like Michael feel like it is used for the garage door opener from the picture , but I am sure you checked.

    See post #10


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by John Steinke View Post
    A "drop cord' is not, by itself, wrong. Especially since this is a workshop, I don't think the 'subsitute for permanent wiring' issue comes into play.

    Passing through a hole in the ceiling, though, is a violation- and simply adding a junction box isn't going to fix it.
    That's what makes it wrong.

    Simply installing a junction box now turn the flexible cord into permanent wiring, and that is a problem.

    If the cord originated at a junction box in the ceiling, was plugged into a receptacle, and was properly secured and supported so no weight was on the receptacle, then the cord could be used the same as plugging in any extension cord could be ... but that is not the case, so the cord is wrong as it is not approved for permanent wiring.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    I think 368.56 (B) covers it.

    Let me know what I missed.

    Vern,

    What you missed is that 368 is not applicable in any way.

    368 is for "busways", not flexible cords.

    - 368.2 Definition.
    - - Busway. A grounded metal enclosure containing factory-mounted, bare or insulated conductors, which are usually copper or aluminum bars, rods, or tubes.
    - - - FPN: For cablebus, refer to Article 370.

    The first thing you need to do is to make sure the article is applicable to what is being discussed, otherwise, trying to pick out a line item in something which is not applicable simply ... well, ... simply is not applicable.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  17. #17
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Chris, I think he is referring to the strain relief that looks like Chinese finger cuffs.
    Thanks Vern,
    I see what you are talking about now, I just didn't know what it was called........I'll go with strain relief.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Vern,

    What you missed is that 368 is not applicable in any way.

    368 is for "busways", not flexible cords.

    - 368.2 Definition.
    - - Busway. A grounded metal enclosure containing factory-mounted, bare or insulated conductors, which are usually copper or aluminum bars, rods, or tubes.
    - - - FPN: For cablebus, refer to Article 370.

    The first thing you need to do is to make sure the article is applicable to what is being discussed, otherwise, trying to pick out a line item in something which is not applicable simply ... well, ... simply is not applicable.
    Jerry, I may have gotten the wrong section but I was sure flexible drop cords are allowed. The drop cords that I have had opportunity to look at in a restaurant were from a J-box. Doesn't mean it was right, but was accepted by ahj. How about 400.10?


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Jerry, I may have gotten the wrong section but I was sure flexible drop cords are allowed. The drop cords that I have had opportunity to look at in a restaurant were from a J-box. Doesn't mean it was right, but was accepted by ahj. How about 400.10?

    To make sure we are talking about the same part of what is being discussed:
    - The flexible cord runs UP THROUGH the ceiling, which is not allowed. Agreed?
    - If a junction box was installed at the ceiling, the flexible cord would STILL BE up above the ceiling, which is not allowed. Agreed?

    At least you are now in the right section with 400.10 , but that does not apply to the above.

    (underlining and bold are mine)
    - 400.7 Uses Permitted.
    - - (A) Uses. Flexible cords and cables shall be used only for the following:
    - - - (1) Pendants
    - - - (2) Wiring of luminaires
    - - - (3) Connection of portable luminaires, portable and mobile signs, or appliances
    - - - (4) Elevator cables
    - - - (5) Wiring of cranes and hoists
    - - - (6) Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange
    - - - (7) Prevention of the transmission of noise or vibration
    - - - (8) Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection
    - - - (9) Connection of moving parts
    - - - (10) Where specifically permitted elsewhere in this Code
    - - (B) Attachment Plugs. Where used as permitted in 400.7(A)(3), (A)(6), and (A)(8), each flexible cord shall be equipped with an attachment plug and shall be energized from a receptacle outlet.
    - - - Exception: As permitted in 368.56.

    - 400.8 Uses Not Permitted.
    - - Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:
    - - - (1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
    - - - (2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
    - - - (3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
    - - - (4) Where attached to building surfaces
    - - - - Exception to (4): Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.56(B)
    - - - (5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
    - - - (6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code
    - - - (7) Where subject to physical damage

    I believe we all agree that leaving the flexible cord above the ceiling and installing a junction box IS NOT ALLOWED ... right?

    Now, when the wiring above the ceiling IS REPLACED, a junction box is installed, and the flexible cord is plugged into a receptacle in the junction box ... AND ... (what I said) "properly secured and supported so no weight was on the receptacle" ... or (what you pointed out the last time) "How about 400.10" ... we said the same thing.

    - 400.10 Pull at Joints and Terminals.
    - - Flexible cords and cables shall be connected to devices and to fittings so that tension is not transmitted to joints or terminals.
    - - - Exception: Listed portable single-pole devices that are intended to accommodate such tension at their terminals shall be permitted to be used with single-conductor flexible cable.
    - - - FPN: Some methods of preventing pull on a cord from being transmitted to joints or terminals are knotting the cord, winding with tape, and fittings designed for the purpose.

    Plugging into a receptacle, even a twist lock receptacle, does not meet the exception. The twist lock receptacle IS NOT designed or intended to take a load, it is designed and intended to prevent regular plugs from being plugged into the receptacle and to help reduce accidental pull outs of the plug - even though no weight is *intended* to be on the twist lock blades.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Cord through ceiling

    Jerry, I think we are on the same page. What I recommended was to MOVE the J-box so the cable does not go through the drywall ceiling. I don't for a second believe that will be done, just as so many things that are in all of our reports. Even if a twist lock is not designed to support the weight of the appliance cord, there is nothing to say that a strain relief device could not be installed and used at the time of connection.


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