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  1. #1
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    Question Opposite of messy workmanship

    It's always exciting to see a new panel installed on a late 60's home. Makes you think the jobs going to be easy. This panel was far from being messy. 1968 home with grounded outlets.....................hey, where is all the stuff?

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  2. #2
    Ralph Millard's Avatar
    Ralph Millard Guest

    Default Re: Opposite of messy workmanship

    Its always good to see homes with good electrical workmanship!


  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Opposite of messy workmanship

    Where are the grounds and neutrals? Yeah, they cleaned it up. Pretty white wires don't need do be dirtied up with permanent marking indicating they are hot.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Opposite of messy workmanship

    Bruce,
    I wondered the same thing. They were in a Junction box (old gutted Zinsco Panel) in the house. The only good thing was they removed the Zinsco panel. Bad things were ...grounds and neutrals in a junction box, painted bus bars, copper to aluminum splices made with improper connectors...................I just called it out to be evaluated and repairs made by a master electrician.

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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Default Re: Opposite of messy workmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    Pretty white wires don't need do be dirtied up with permanent marking indicating they are hot.
    You have to remember. This was NOT always code. This is a fairly recent change.


  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Georgetown, KY
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    Default Re: Opposite of messy workmanship

    HOW recent Speedy? Curiousity asks.

    Erby Crofutt, Georgetown, KY - Read my Blog here: Erby the Central Kentucky Home Inspector B4 U Close Home Inspections www.b4uclose.com www.kentuckyradon.com
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Default Re: Opposite of messy workmanship

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey
    Pretty white wires don't need do be dirtied up with permanent marking indicating they are hot.



    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    You have to remember. This was NOT always code. This is a fairly recent change.

    Not at all recent, was in effect w/ the 1984 NEC,(200-7 exception #1) will check earlier editions to see when it went into effect, have 1965, & 1971 to 2005 in a hard copy, & '08 on the desktop....


  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Opposite of messy workmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    You have to remember. This was NOT always code. This is a fairly recent change.

    From my 1937 NEC (I could have pulled out an older one, but that is the one I pulled out, and it is not a new requirement in this code):
    - 2006 Identified Conductor in Identified Circuits Only. Conductors having white or natural-gray covering shall not be used other than as conductors for which identification is required by this section except under the following conditions:
    - - a. Identified conductor, rendered permanently unidentified by painting or other effective means at each outlet where the conductors are visible and accessible, may be used as unidentified conductors.
    - - - The foregoing permits the use of two-wire cable having one black and one white conductor on 2-wire circuits tapped from the outside legs of a 3-wire system or any two conductor of a multiwire system if the identified conductor of the two-wire cable is rendered permanently unidentified at terminals.
    - - b. Cable containing an identified conductor may be used for single-pole switch loops if the connections are so made that the unidentified conductor is the return conductor from the switch to the outlet.
    - - - This exception makes it unnecessary to paint the terminal of the identified conductor at the switch outlet.

    The sections in small type size are that way in the code and are equivalent to FPN in modern NEC editions.

    So ... it is safe to state that reidentification of white IS NOT "a fairly recent change". That the requirement for such is likely older than anyone participating on this board, including WC Jerry (who is older than I am).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NY State
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    Default Re: Opposite of messy workmanship

    Sorry guys. I had posting issues the past few days and it wound up being my fault.

    I was quite wrong in my previous reply. I was thinking of switch loops, not 240v circuits with regard to re-marking.


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