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Thread: jumper bar

  1. #1
    wes owens's Avatar
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    Default jumper bar

    Do you guys recommend removal of jumper bar between the neutral and ground bus bars?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Personally - NO
    Unless the label on the panel clearly states that removal of that part is allowed then removing it would violate it's UL listing.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Quote Originally Posted by wes owens View Post
    Do you guys recommend removal of jumper bar between the neutral and ground bus bars?
    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    Personally - NO
    Unless the label on the panel clearly states that removal of that part is allowed then removing it would violate it's UL listing.
    When you see a bar like that, look at the label, it will *almost always* tell you to remove it when that is to be used as other-than-service equipment to allow for isolation of the neutral from ground, and may even specify which side is "Ground" and which is "Neutral", and may likely even further specify that removal of that metal bar be accompanied by the installation of a plastic insulating bar as those bars are frequently used to help hold the neutral and ground terminal bars in place (see those black plastic clips which just clip around the terminal bars - they need help holding the bars straight and parallel and in their place.

    Being as that looks like service entrance cable coming in the bottom, the bar most likely should NOT be removed as that bar (if of metal and not replaced with a plastic one) is being used to bond the neutrals and grounds together.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
    wes owens's Avatar
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Thanks


  5. #5
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    That is a "split neutral" so one has a neutral bar down both sides of the panel, although that panel is GE, that was 1st introduced by Gould Inc. in the late 1970's for their ITE EQ III loadcenters, the proper use is to add a ground bar for a subpanel (I don't care what some folks say about calling them subpanels they are in the minority) because someone is too cheap to spring for a 6 buck GB kit & then they neglect to bond the can to the bar they are converting to a GB when they remove the jumper............


  6. #6
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    That is a "split neutral" so one has a neutral bar down both sides of the panel, although that panel is GE, that was 1st introduced by Gould Inc. in the late 1970's for their ITE EQ III loadcenters, the proper use is to add a ground bar for a subpanel (I don't care what some folks say about calling them subpanels they are in the minority) because someone is too cheap to spring for a 6 buck GB kit & then they neglect to bond the can to the bar they are converting to a GB when they remove the jumper............
    I would concur with both Jerry and Rollie (I'm not touching the sub-panel issue...)

    It is a split neutral GE.... Meaning that in the loadcenter both bars are set on insulating standoffs and one of the bars will have a main bonding jumper (green screw in this case) installed through one of the neutral bars to bond the case of the enclosure....if the panel is being used as service equipment. The bonding strap shown is to bond the neutral bars together. Then of course the service neutral (grounded conductor) is connected to one of the neutral bars...usually the lug for the service neutral is on the right side terminal bar in the photo.

    I would like to see a complete picture of the panel or at least know if it is service equipment .... one thing that makes me want to know this is the neutrals and grounds are seperated to the individual bars. Grounded conductors (neutrals if you want) on the left and equipment grounds on the right in the photo. This is not really the intention of a split neutral panel .. it's design was to allow ground and neutrals to connect to each bar eliminating crossover and making the panel more friendly to wire.
    So this panel is suspect IMO and we should prove that it is service equipment as it is possible that the panel is not service equipment and the main boning jumper is removed. The reason I say that is I believe these type ge panels have the main bonding jumper installed in the bottom hole of the neutral bar ...I may be incorrect on that. Anyway if correct I don't see it... And the panel would be incorrectly configured whether service equipment or not.

    I have seen this bonding strap removed on a ge panel and others because they have provision for the main bonding jumper to be installed in either neutral bar. Then the bar on the left turned into a grounding bar by installing the main bonding jumper in it.

    Not intended by the manufacturer by design but I've seen this done.... because of what Jerry has mentioned that some panels will specify this as an option. My point is that the split neutral was designed for ease of wiring not necessarily to prevent you from choosing one of the bars as a ground bar. You can do so by removing the bonding strap between them ..... look here then the right side at the wiring diagram. Use the rotate feature and magnifier...unless your eyes are better than mine..... Heck I'll just include a detail of it it ( far right hand image) in the attached drawings at the end of my post. Here's the link to the document for reference.

    http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/intern...CU_4099513.pdf



    Attached is a drawing of a GE powermark gold split neutral panel. I can't tell if the bottom hole in the terminal bars is the bonding hole for the green screw for certain but this is how I remember them in all ge split neutral panels and the drawing does show that hole open....in both bars. Then a few drawings of mine (using borrowed graphic with notes mine) for a seimens split neutral panel same principal as the GE panel and showing service equipment configuration and non-service equipment.

    Anyway I see a few things that makes me suspicous of this ge panel in question being configured correctly but will need more information to verify right or wrong.

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    Last edited by Roger Frazee; 02-09-2010 at 11:22 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Question, anything worth noting when concentric knockouts aren't bonded?


  8. #8
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Is the smaller black wire with the green tape showing at the far left just before it disappears one of the conductors of the SE cable serving that panel ?? It almost looks like it is separate and sharing the same raceway ... anyones eyes better than mine?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    ground bar for a subpanel (I don't care what some folks say about calling them subpanels they are in the minority)

    When a sub hits a ground bar, which is similar to a sand bar (I would suppose), you do not have to worry about the panel, there are many other things which need to be placed higher on the priority list - such as who to heck was the skipper and what on earth were they thinking.

    There is "service equipment" panels and panels which are "other than service equipment", or, simply put, "panels".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    When a sub hits a ground bar, which is similar to a sand bar (I would suppose), you do not have to worry about the panel, there are many other things which need to be placed higher on the priority list - such as who to heck was the skipper and what on earth were they thinking.

    There is "service equipment" panels and panels which are "other than service equipment", or, simply put, "panels".
    Your opinion is in the minority, "subpanel" is a common trade term.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: jumper bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    Your opinion is in the minority, "subpanel" is a common trade term.
    You want something else which is common and also incorrect? Think calling ALL NM cable "romex" ... trying to defend something which is wrong by saying it is common is like telling the cop writing you a ticket for speeding "everyone else speeds too" ... you just *admitted* you were speeding!

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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