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  1. #1
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    Default What the heck am am I missing?

    The Mfg. home seller had an AC unit installed, last fall, and a new electric heat strip furnace.
    Wiring to the breaker marked Furnace, [ I tripped the breaker and it did shut the furnace off] was 12.2 connected to a 60 amp breaker.

    The seller mentioned that the origional furnace breaker keep tripping, to correct that the HVAC contractor told him that all they needed to do correct that was install a larger breaker.

    Buyer requisted it be corrected.
    The sellers HVAC contractor then informs the buyer that, I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about, since the furnace is protected with a 40 amp breaker on the furnace.

    My thought, HELLO, what does that have to do with the wiring size when there is 12.2 wiring connected to a 60 amp breaker.

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  2. #2
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    No Need for a bic lighter with that kind of set up...

    Best

    Ron


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    That's not a 40 amp breaker at the unit....it's probably a disconnect switch!


  4. #4
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    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    HIs have no authority to mandate repairs. Call it out and defer to the qualified contractor. If they tell you your wrong tell them to put it in writing on their company letter head. That puts all liability on them. (they normally won't do it if they're wrong).

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    No Need for a bic lighter with that kind of set up...

    Best

    Ron
    That may fix it real quick since the breaker was apx 50' from the furnace.

    The seller, an older gentleman was a retired firefighter, when he saw what they did, he was not impressed with their fix, and called the HVAC company when I was there.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    HIs have no authority to mandate repairs. Call it out and defer to the qualified contractor. If they tell you your wrong tell them to put it in writing on their company letter head. That puts all liability on them. (they normally won't do it if they're wrong).

    I agree. In this case the daughter from out of state was buying her retired mom the mfg home sight unseen.
    After reading the report, and talking to the seller about it she was quite concerned about having her mother move into the home.
    When she called me about the HVAC contractors reply, I recommended she contact a Lic. electrican, and send him the photos and my report.

    The home didn't have AC before. I'm assuming they used the old elec. furnace 60 amp wiring for the AC unit, [ despite the AC unit was rated for a max of 40 amps.] and used the old furnace fan circuit for the new furnace.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    HIs have no authority to mandate repairs. Call it out and defer to the qualified contractor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    I agree.

    I agree to a limited point ...

    That being that while HIs have no authority to mandate repairs, HIs DO HAVE a duty to explain things to the client so the client can understand why the contractor is a jerk and had no idea what they are doing.

    Let us presume that the furnace is protected at the furnace with a 40 amp breaker as the HVAC person said (we have no proof showing otherwise, so instead of calling that HVAC person a jerk for something we do not know, we point out what the client needs to understand) ... THE CIRCUIT WIRING NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED ... to heck with the furnace. The breaker is not there to protect "the furnace", the breaker is there to protect "the circuit wiring". Should "the furnace" have a problem the problem should be contained to some extent to within "the furnace", BUT ... if THE CIRCUIT WIRING were to have a problem, the problem would not be contained and could fully envolve the entire house (as in a fully envolved fire). That is why the protection is not installed at the end of the circuit, but instead the protection is installed at the beginning of the circuit.

    Think of it this way:
    - A) A GFCI is to protect people (the furnace in the above example) and is thus placed either at the beginning of the circuit (rarely done) or at the end of the circuit - either location if okay.
    - B) AFCI is to protect the circuit (same as the breaker in the above example) and is thus placed AT THE BEGINNING of the circuit.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  8. #8
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    That being that while HIs have no authority to mandate repairs, HIs DO HAVE a duty to explain things to the client so the client can understand why the contractor is a jerk and had no idea what they are doing.
    JP: Agreed.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I agree to a limited point ...

    That being that while HIs have no authority to mandate repairs, HIs DO HAVE a duty to explain things to the client so the client can understand why the contractor is a jerk and had no idea what they are doing.
    Definitely. I've went round and round with HVAC techs, electricians, and Building Contractors several times. When it gets to the point that it's obvious that they have no clue as to what's correct I'll state, "Put it in writing on your company letterhead. I've already done it in my report and I'll stand by it". Typically when they hear that they know they'll be assuming all liability and actually do some research and determine they're wrong.

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  10. #10
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    "Put it in writing on your company letterhead."
    KR: Yessir. That is a most useful statement for tradesmen, builders, and even over-zealous agents . . .


  11. #11
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    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    "Put it in writing on your company letterhead."
    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    KR: Yessir. That is a most useful statement for tradesmen, builders, and even over-zealous agents . . .
    I have even used that a few times for building inspectors - "Put that in writing on building department letterhead and have the Building Official sign it. That way when this becomes an issue in the future my client has it in writing from the building department stating it is okay. Which means my client will not have to change anything as you have now grandfathered it in."

    I only had one building department do that, and they later regretted it when they changed their mind.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  12. #12
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    michigan
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    Default Re: What the heck am am I missing?

    I can only speak for the State of MI, but U may inquire at your local Build Dept.: A formal complaint is made at the Building Department. The related inspector then has the authority to investigate. At the time of the investigation, the inspector asserts an immanent danger (if there is one in his opinion), and a permit to correct is ordered.
    If the occupant/owner refuses to cooperate, the inspector issues a citation, and the ball starts rolling.
    Bob Smit, County EI


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