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Thread: bonding screw

  1. #1
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    Default bonding screw

    How do you tell whether the bonding screw is screwed in sufficiently? Does it bottom out? Is this one obviously not screwed in enough?

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  2. #2
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Bonding screws have a torque in in/lbs. listed on the panel specification sheet. This one is not torqued and may be the wrong bonding screw. The head of the screw should be in full contact with the neutral lugs surface once it is torqued. They are also specific in length so they don't thread out the back of the panel too far preventing them from making full surface contact with the neutral lug in this case. This appears to be a seimens panel so if this is service equipment that bonding screw needs to be torqued properly. It appears to be service equipment as I see neutrals and egc's bonded.

    If it is not service equipment then maybe the installer just hand inserted the screw. It would be better to lay the screw in the bottom of the panel or put it in your use another day box. The other issues would then need to be corrected to comply with a non-service panel..

    Last edited by Roger Frazee; 02-26-2010 at 08:31 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Frazee View Post
    Bonding screws have a torque in in/lbs. listed on the panel specification sheet. This one is not torqued and may be the wrong bonding screw. The head of the screw should be in full contact with the neutral lugs surface once it is torqued. The're are also specific in length so they don't tread out the back of the panel too far preventing them from making full surface contact with he neutral lug in this case. This appears to be a seimens panel so if this is service equipment that bonding screw needs to be torqued properly. If it is not service equipment then maybe the installer just hand inserted the screw. It would be considerably better to just discard it or lay it in the bottom of the panel.
    Thanks. It is definitely service equipment.

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  4. #4
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    I edited my post to be a add a little clarity. The electrical tape is sort of a bandaid for a service grounded conductor that was stripped too much..... I would have been better to just leave it stripped as is or better yet cut it to the right strip length.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    In SE type cable the entire neutral is bare. I cannot see what type of cable or conductors were used to feed this panel.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Roger, your correct. This is a Siemen's panel, and I've had to reject more than a few of these. So much so, that I began asking installers for unused bonding screws to carry with me till the manf corrected the issue.
    Some AHJ's and myself contacted Siemens a few years back and they took care of this problem.
    Obviously, there are still past installations not corrected. Good eye.
    Bob Smit, County EI


  7. #7
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Quote Originally Posted by bob smit View Post
    Roger, your correct. This is a Siemen's panel, and I've had to reject more than a few of these. So much so, that I began asking installers for unused bonding screws to carry with me till the manf corrected the issue.
    Some AHJ's and myself contacted Siemens a few years back and they took care of this problem.
    Obviously, there are still past installations not corrected. Good eye.
    Bob Smit, County EI
    Yeah the copper bonding rod is pretty much a dead give away that it is a Siemens split neutral panel.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    IMO, the screw needs to be seated to the bottom of the lug, as shown it is doing nothing.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Rollie, read my post above. What I meant to be inferred; Siemens provided the wrong bonding screw (too long) with this panel for awhile, till brought to their attention.
    Bob Smit, County EI


  10. #10
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    IMO, the screw needs to be seated to the bottom of the lug, as shown it is doing nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by bob smit View Post
    Rollie, read my post above. What I meant to be inferred; Siemens provided the wrong bonding screw (too long) with this panel for awhile, till brought to their attention.
    Bob Smit, County EI

    I ran into one today, installed last week, same screw sticking out same way.

    I tried to remove the screw as the panel was not service equipment but the screw did not back out any further. Seems to be caught (intentionally) in the plastic. Have you run into that before?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Can U find out if this was a newly (sp) purchased panel Jerry?
    Siemens told us the b-screw issue was purged from their stock, and this was a few years ago.

    I haven't run into this issue for awhile now. No to your ? regarding the removal of said screw. Perhaps the threads got fused while trying to bottom out?

    Bob Smit, County EI


  12. #12
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Quote Originally Posted by bob smit View Post
    Can U find out if this was a newly (sp) purchased panel Jerry?
    Siemens told us the b-screw issue was purged from their stock, and this was a few years ago...
    Bob - Assuming you mean the panel I posted about, here's the only decent photo of the whole thing.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    John, based on the what I think I see.....looks like there are some GE breakers in the mix. I might assume they were transferred from the previous panel installed?? Either way, this panel was probably installed a few years ago prior, when the panels were shipped with too long of bonding screws.
    Am I accurate in my assumptions?
    Bob Smit, County EI


  14. #14
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    John; yes, this is the panel Jerry & I are still referring to.
    Bob Smit, County EI


  15. #15
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Quote Originally Posted by bob smit View Post
    John, based on the what I think I see.....looks like there are some GE breakers in the mix. I might assume they were transferred from the previous panel installed?? Either way, this panel was probably installed a few years ago prior, when the panels were shipped with too long of bonding screws.
    Am I accurate in my assumptions?
    Bob Smit, County EI
    Well, it's definitely not the original panel. The house is over 80 years old.

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: bonding screw

    Quote Originally Posted by bob smit View Post
    Can U find out if this was a newly (sp) purchased panel Jerry?

    I'll ask the electrician when he bought it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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