Thread: Arc Circuit requirements for Texas

Do we have to put as a deficiency a house that is not completely protected by arc circuit or only one that does not have them in the bedrooms. Please reply

As per Texas Administrative Code and TREC Standards of Practice...
Must report...
the lack of arc-fault circuit interrupting devices serving family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreations rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas; and
failure of operation of installed arc-fault circuit interrupter devices.

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Originally Posted by Richard Flores

Do we have to put as a deficiency a house that is not completely protected by arc circuit or only one that does not have them in the bedrooms. Please reply

As per Texas Administrative Code and TREC Standards of Practice...
Must report...
the lack of arc-fault circuit interrupting devices serving family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreations rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas; and
failure of operation of installed arc-fault circuit interrupter devices.

Gosh almighty that is an absurd and stupid requirement! You just can't add AFCI's to an older electrical system.

Richard,

The answer to your question is "YES".

The answer is right there in your TREC Standards of Practices. If your not writing it up as such, you'd be in violation.

rick

Virtually every residential property you inspect will be noted as "Deficient" in both sections of the electrical (Service Entrance ... AFCIs and Branch Circuits ... GFCIs). There are few (if any) homes ... including new construction ... that meet the current requirements.

That being said since February 2009 with the new TREC SOP you have been required to make such a comment of being "Deficient" for both. Fundamentally (even though we are not code inspectors) it is based on the current NEC-2008.

If you are not and you happen to get audited by TREC Legal you could be fined or at least have your hand's slapped for not following the SOP.

There are many more such items in the SOP that you had best make sure you are aware of ... not just in electrical.

Richard,

I noted your sample report is the 7A-0 template. I'm hoping that you are using the current 7-2 template otherwise you are in another bad situation of not using the current required report template.

Originally Posted by Nolan Kienitz

Virtually every residential property you inspect will be noted as "Deficient" in both sections of the electrical (Service Entrance ... AFCIs and Branch Circuits ... GFCIs). There are few (if any) homes ... including new construction ... that meet the current requirements.

That being said since February 2009 with the new TREC SOP you have been required to make such a comment of being "Deficient" for both. Fundamentally (even though we are not code inspectors) it is based on the current NEC-2008.

If you are not and you happen to get audited by TREC Legal you could be fined or at least have your hand's slapped for not following the SOP.

There are many more such items in the SOP that you had best make sure you are aware of ... not just in electrical.

Hello Nolan,

So, the HI is required to report the lack of AFCI as a deficiency. Is the owner of the property required to correct the defect?

Just curious.

Sincerely,

Corey

Originally Posted by Corey Friedman

Hello Nolan,

So, the HI is required to report the lack of AFCI as a deficiency. Is the owner of the property required to correct the defect?

Just curious.

Sincerely,

Corey

I'm not Nolan, but no nothing that a home inspector reports on is in any way a requirement for correction.
The HI is regulated in Texas, not the home buyer or seller.

Nolan,
It looks to me like you can use REI 7A-1 still. Or am I missing something. You are correct if he is using 7A-0 he would be in violation. I hate to say it, but I wasnt even aware there was a form REI 7-2 until I read your post.

Why are two reports acceptable now?


RULE §535.223 Standard Inspection Report Form
The Texas Real Estate Commission adopts by reference Property Inspection Report Form REI 7A-1, approved by the Commission in 2008, and Property Inspection Report Form REI 7-2, approved by the Commission in 2009, for use in reporting inspection results. These documents are published by and available from the Texas Real Estate Commission, P.O. Box 12188, Austin, Texas 78711-2188.

I went to TREC and looked up the history of the forms. Says some typograhical error in regards to check boxes. I know my spell check goes nuts on the disclaimer wording.

When does the "grace" period end for REI 7A-1.

TREC has not set a firm date for the retirement of the 7A-1. In my last e-mail from a TREC legal-eagle it was noted there was a slip-up in setting the retirement date of 7A-1 last fall.

It will likely be addressed yet sometime this year.

In the meantime both the 7A-1 and 7-2 are permitted.

I would use 7-2 and get ready for probably yet another version from what I've heard. No details, but likely.

Corey,

Jim L. is correct. TREC HIs can call things deficient all day long and no one is "required" to make any changes.

All depends upon how bad the seller wants to sell the home.

I guess it's true what say.... "Everything is bigger in Texas" - even the rules

Originally Posted by Matt Fellman

I guess it's true what say.... "Everything is bigger in Texas" - even the rules

You folks pulling for regulation of HI, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. The only state's legislation I have heard of that is more onerous is the one that prohibits citing code and defective electric panels. Other than that I am afraid that we have more rules and less protection for HI than anyplace I have heard of.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

You folks pulling for regulation of HI, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. The only state's legislation I have heard of that is more onerous is the one that prohibits citing code and defective electric panels. Other than that I am afraid that we have more rules and less protection for HI than anyplace I have heard of.

And it is likely going to get worse from the rumblings I keep hearing out of Austin.

Also ... if a pending lawsuit (Seller suing HI for 'doing his job') actually gets resolution by June/July this year we will have a whole new can of worms to deal with.

Been floating through the legal system since late last summer and is supposedly due to be completed by June/July. I've not had a current update, but about a month ago it was still alive.

I thought TREC was only being schmoozed by the Realtors and Insurance companies. I guess we can add report writing software companies to the suitors.

Originally Posted by imported_John Smith

I thought TREC was only being schmoozed by the Realtors and Insurance companies. I guess we can add report writing software companies to the suitors.

IJS - None of them are schmoozing TREC. TREC is a PIA when it comes to providing clarification of what they precisely want or will allow in the templates.

Drives the software folks nuts in trying to get answers.

I know from personal experience as I help a couple of them debug their platforms and templates to try and ensure they meet the TREC rules.

"taint easy ... I can assure you.

Rick,

The State of Texas has adopted the 2008 edition of the N.E.C.
The Electricians are licensed thru the Texas Dept. of Licensing and Regulation, which makes all electricians wire to the State Code.
Which means= Arc-Fault breakers ahould be in all locations specified as well as in the bedrooms...

Heron L.

Originally Posted by Heron Longoria Jr.

Rick,

The State of Texas has adopted the 2008 edition of the N.E.C.
The Electricians are licensed thru the Texas Dept. of Licensing and Regulation, which makes all electricians wire to the State Code.
Which means= Arc-Fault breakers ahould be in all locations specified as well as in the bedrooms...

Heron L.

That would be in new homes I hope..... Or do you know of a method of installing AFCI breakers when the home was never wired for them?

You are right Scott,
The "existing" installations are excempt. Unless--...you do a complete re-wire, then you would have to comply with current Code.

Originally Posted by Nolan Kienitz

Richard,

I noted your sample report is the 7A-0 template. I'm hoping that you are using the current 7-2 template otherwise you are in another bad situation of not using the current required report template.

Thanks for the reminder Nolan... I have had that sample report for years. I have been using the new template since TREC has requested it..
I just updated my sample report because I don't want Imported John Smith to be concerned over my status..
Richard

Heron,
Good to see you on the board.. How are the courses going?