Thread: Texas Electrical Permit

This is primarily for the Texas inspectors, especially those familiar with the Dallas process.
I have been called to review the work done for a 1960's home in the East Dallas area. My clients asked for specific repairs for the home they purchased to be done by a licensed Electrician pulling all required permits. After closing and seeing the work the clients are questioning if ALL the work was done properly.
They should have had a complete review and repair of the electrical system including replacement of the meter base, weather head, service equipment (FPE) along with various repairs to the wiring in the attic and throughout the house. (Basically your general fuster cluck)
After calls and a little research, it is apparent no permit was pulled for the panel replacement which is still located inside the master bedroom closet. I don't know about the rest of the repairs until I look at it tomorrow.

Does anyone know if Dallas has a habit of allowing replacement panels to go inside prohibited locations? The RE agent reported after talking to the city that yes there should have been a permit pulled but the panel would have been allowed to "stay" in the closet.
The electrician is already in hot water over not pulling a permit; which I will recommend the client insist on, but I'm not sure how the City of Dallas code boys look at the situation as far as placing a replacement panel in a clothes closet.
Any pearls of wisdom are appreciated.

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Bumpp

Thanks AD. I'm heading out right now to see just how bad it really is.

Don't forget to also include smoke alarms.

R313.2.1 Alterations, repairs and additions.

When alterations,
repairs or additions requiring a permit occur, or
when one or more sleeping rooms are added or created in
existing dwellings, the individual dwelling unit shall be
equipped with smoke alarms located as required for new
dwellings; the smoke alarms shall be interconnected and

hard wired.

Panel location, permitting, smoke alarm rules, Arc Fault rules, GFCI rules etc etc etc etc

I can assure you if its in East Dallas, its f-up.!

rick

Well, as I suspected, this was a case of low bidder got the job and one of the ways to cut the cost was to not get a permit. I suspect the answer the RE agent got about the panel being allowed in the closet was answered in isolation from the full experience as in: Agent: can the panel be left in the closet? City Inspector:yes, no requirement to move an existing panel. and then later in the conversation - Agent: should there be a permit for replacing the panel? Yes, panel replacements require a permit.
So if asked in a similar manner, the city guy would give the correct answers but if asked a different way (or if a permit was actually pulled) the results would be quite different.

No matter, the agent put in verbiage that allowed to defer decisions of what would be repaired to the licensed electrician (not from my report) but she did specify that the proper permits from the city of Dallas be obtained. So now, with receipt and license number from the electrician in hand, the games begin since there was no permit obtained.

This confirms what Jerry has been preaching of calling for repairs without putting an escape clause in the report by deferring to an electrician. Since the agent called for repairs as determined by the electrician rather than what I said in the report, both the seller and electrician are off the hook for repairs of obvious defects that were not fixed even though enumerated in my report. Really the only thing to hang their hat on is the lack of a permit... which can come back to bite the buyer since if the city gets involved at this point, they may pull the CO for the house until the work is corrected.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Nope, Dallas does not issue COs on residential buildings.

What recourse do they use to insure compliance of property owners?

Further defining the "low bidder" reference, the receipt from the electrician was hand written on dime store receipt book for $1400 while the buyers agent electrician's bid was over $4000.
The solution to extension cord providing power for the sprinkler system was to removed the cord and leave the sprinkler inoperative.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

On new construction they simply will not issue a final (or intermittent) green tag. On remodel work there appears to be no system other than chaos that I am able to detect. Much of the time no, or only minimal inspections are carried out. The permit fee system is simply a cash cow for any municipality. Some actually inspect and require, e.g. Frisco, Prosper, et al. Dallas seems to collect and retire.

Makes me glad most of my work is from the 'burbs. Seems every time I am in Big D, I see something screwy that the city has apparently blessed. Although in this case, they did not even get the chance.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Nope, Dallas does not issue COs on residential buildings.

So...If no certificate of occupancy then what exactly are the permits and inspections for. Or do you meen just not on work where someone is already living in the home.

Is it just a pass/fail on the inspection and the home owner dies in the process when the home burns down when it fails.

If the work is unsafe that the city is inspecting. Do they tell the owner to get out until it passes inspection?????

Sooooo..... are you saying there are no enforceable rules with rehab/remodel/permitted/non permitted work on existing structures.

Jim,

If the electrician gave a receipt as you mentioned, I'd bet he's in violation of Texas rules for Electricians. I'd be willing to bet the following information is not on that dime store type invoice. They'll hang him if caught.

(f) The electrical contractor’s name, address, phone number, and license number shall appear on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts from the contractor. The following information: “Regulated by The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, P. O. Box 12157, Austin, Texas 78711, 1-800-803-9202, 512-463-6599; website: www.license.state.tx.us/complaints” shall be listed on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts.

It's probably like our city. We do not issue a C of 0 but we do a final on all trades. We consider that a C of O. Once a building final is issued, it's okay to occupy. Reason being we have an ordinance that requires a $100 fee for a C of O. We feel like that would be requiring an additional fee for an inspection that we are providing under a building permit.

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Jim,

If the electrician gave a receipt as you mentioned, I'd bet he's in violation of Texas rules for Electricians. I'd be willing to bet the following information is not on that dime store type invoice. They'll hang him if caught.

(f) The electrical contractor’s name, address, phone number, and license number shall appear on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts from the contractor. The following information: “Regulated by The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, P. O. Box 12157, Austin, Texas 78711, 1-800-803-9202, 512-463-6599; website: www.license.state.tx.us/complaints” shall be listed on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts.

And the State has been cracking down on these types of individuals. I get emails monthly from TDLR on fines levied for various violations.

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Jim,

If the electrician gave a receipt as you mentioned, I'd bet he's in violation of Texas rules for Electricians. I'd be willing to bet the following information is not on that dime store type invoice. They'll hang him if caught.

(f) The electrical contractor’s name, address, phone number, and license number shall appear on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts from the contractor. The following information: “Regulated by The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, P. O. Box 12157, Austin, Texas 78711, 1-800-803-9202, 512-463-6599; website: www.license.state.tx.us/complaints” shall be listed on all proposals, invoices, and written contracts.

Thanks, Rick. I will forward this to my client. I am assuming you pulled that from the TDLR website, correct?

Yes Sir, Yes I did!

rick