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  1. #1
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    Default Is the authority blind?

    I called for repair here, in a 1973 mobile home. The 10/3 feeder on the lower left needs a cable clamp and a tiebar. No, the seller says, the municipal electrical inspector checked the trailer wiring for their permit and declared it right.

    The wire fed a shop before, now supplies a lighting circuit in the addition with the black and an outdoor outlet with the red. They still need to be joined with a tie bar, right?

    We also expect the black and the red to be on opposite busbars, so the neutral carries less current, which is another good thing about the tie bar. But that's no worry here with that big gauge wire, I think. So I pointed out the safety issue and the seller agrees, just can't see why not a squeak from the authority.

    There's some stranded copper in this unit as well. Any concerns for that?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is the authority blind?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    The wire fed a shop before, now supplies a lighting circuit in the addition with the black and an outdoor outlet with the red. They still need to be joined with a tie bar, right?
    Depends.

    It may be a multiwire circuit from 'back then'.

    We also expect the black and the red to be on opposite busbars,
    Looks like they are?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is the authority blind?

    Here is a picture from a group of 6 homes under construction across the street from me all wired by the same hack EC, the same garbage keeps getting passed & this pic is only 1 example. They never would bring a cable from the bottom of the box, only from the top. See 300.3(D)2005 Ed.



    Last edited by Rollie Meyers; 06-20-2010 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Added code reference.

  4. #4
    Paul Johnston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the authority blind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Depends.

    It may be a multiwire circuit from 'back then'.



    Looks like they are?
    Wouldn't both wires need to hook to the same breaker in this case. Looks like being connected to the top lug of each breaker would have it connected to the same buss.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is the authority blind?

    They are on different legs of panel, so there is 240V across the lines, the 2-twin breakers should be replaced with a quad breaker having the proper handle ties.

    PS The cable looks like 6 or 8 AWG AL, not 10/3.


  6. #6
    Michael Farha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the authority blind?

    It also appears to have aluminum branch wiring.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is the authority blind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    the 2-twin breakers should be replaced with a quad breaker having the proper handle ties.

    Now, yes, but it is quite possible that it was not required that the handles be tied together at the time - that is only a recent code change (one which, in my opinion, took WAY TOO LONG to come about - that should have been required a century ago - in my opinion).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is the authority blind?

    I concur w/Jerry i.e. no tie-bars required, assuming 'back then'. Yes they are on different lines, as it were. Looks like the grounded conductor is run separate, or, is the sheathing just short of the enclosure...I can't tell from the pic. Damm these tired eyes.

    Regarding Rollie: I've had contractors who always fed boxes from one end, which makes it simpler /easier to make up and fold wires. Why from the top only in the pic is anyone's guess.
    Either way, I used to enforce the 1 1/4 rule and have the electrician nail a sufficient plate to cover the back of the box. Even though the rule is really meant for bored holes I felt it necessary to protect the conductors when a deep box was used. I know, bad AHJ!
    Bob Smit, County EI


  9. #9
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    Post Re: Is the authority blind?

    It does look like each leg is being fed from a separate bus. I can see why you are wondering about handle ties. The other breakers have them. If this circuit ever handled a 240 volt load, the it would make sense that it would have ties as well. The grounding bus appears to be a poor design - what brand of panel is this? While on that note, are the breakers in the lower left quadrant specified as compatible with this panel? They appear to be of different branding. That could create potential problems. The branch circuits you mention appear to have been added after the panel was installed. The cable bushing appears to have been cut and slipped over the cable, and installed from the wrong side of the panel housing. This would be a good one to have a licensed electrician review. At least have antioxidant paste added on all of those aluminum connections.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is the authority blind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Aldering View Post
    poor design - what brand of panel is this? While on that note, are the breakers in the lower left quadrant specified as compatible with this panel? They appear to be of different branding. That could create potential problems. The branch circuits you mention appear to have been added after the panel was installed. The cable bushing appears to have been cut and slipped over the cable, and installed from the wrong side of the panel housing. This would be a good one to have a licensed electrician review. At least have antioxidant paste added on all of those aluminum connections.
    1.It's a Westinghouse with Cutler Hammer breakers.
    2. The plastic bushing is too small for the cable, it could very well be an 8/3. The neutral is shoved up behind the other two.
    3. Some hots are blue or brown, some neutrals are yellow.
    4.No electrician is going to do anything, the AHJ said it's good enough.

    5. The solid conductors are all copper, but with a bit of tarnish.

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