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  1. #1
    Warren Scaman's Avatar
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    Default electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    House was cited by inspector ???

    House only has 1 100 AMP Electrical panel with a single spliced neutral and hot wires.Inpectors opinion without speaking to the Daughters was a condition may exist that is Creating poor connections,and shock and fire hazzard.


    I assume just a viusual inspection. As the House has been owned by the original owners 47 years , new microwave and dishwasher ~ 20 years ago.


    No problem with blown fuses or shock or fires.


    ! yellow and 1 Black.


    Also I see two wires in 1 Breaker , so I think another double breaker to seperate those wires.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Warren, alot of people assume when you flip a switch and the lightbulb lights, everything is wonderful. Not always the case. What are you asking by the way, and Hazzard is a County in a fictional TV show.

    Paul Kondzich
    Ft. Myers, FL.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    I made a picture of the Electrical panel.


    1. Is the electrical Panel OK and not a code or fire or shock problem with the yellow and black nut twisters that spliced the wires in the pannel?

    2. Am I correct I need to add a double breaker to seperate the 1 breaker with 2 hot wires in it when only 1 should have been in it.


    Main thing is fix Health and saftey issues. Not a wish list of perfect Construction house was built in 1963 and not 2010!

    Last edited by Warren Scaman; 08-08-2010 at 03:38 PM. Reason: adding more information

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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    I'm at a loss for words here.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    You won't get very much help from a picture or two, and some general descriptions. I presume this is a DIY question of some sort.

    Your best bet is to have a local electrician look it over and make recommendations based on your setup. Too much danger messing around in that panel if you lack the skills to safely complete the job.


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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    If the spliced conductors are the proper gauge for the breaker size what do you imagine the problem is?

    Could you point out the 2 conductors on the breaker you are talking about? I see one tandem, which is actually two breakers inside one physical housing on the right side of the panel. The use of the tandem may not be allowed. You would need to check the panel label.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    THe Third breaker on the top is a double. It has 3 wires in it. the brown and black is in the right side of it. That is the bad duo!

    Last edited by Warren Scaman; 08-08-2010 at 03:39 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Just wondering if that is the only panel for the house. Is it the service?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    If the spliced conductors are the proper gauge for the breaker size what do you imagine the problem is?

    Could you point out the 2 conductors on the breaker you are talking about? I see one tandem, which is actually two breakers inside one physical housing on the right side of the panel. The use of the tandem may not be allowed. You would need to check the panel label.

    Cutler-Hammer never built a twin breaker for the type CH panels until about 20 years ago, that panel is late 1950's to early '60's based on that type of main breaker, so I say a twin has no biz in that panel, just my opinion.

    I was quite annoyed when Eaton introduced twins for type CH loadcenters,it was one of the many things that liked about those panels,not having a panel full of twin breakers.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Yes this house was new in 1963 and yes this is the only panel 100 Amps.

    It's a 3 bedroom 1 1/2 bath split level.

    No problem with the electrical lights, furnace, A/C, oven , stove, dishwwasher, microwave and refridgerator and freezer, and attic fan.


    Not many blown fuses over the 47 years. I think ~ 25 years ago the dishwasher and microwave was added by a non-electrical DYI contractor.


    This is an Estate Sale and we want to sell the house "As Is" but in Good condition. They know they are getting a 47 year old electrical service , panel and breakers.


    Really this house has not have and problems with this, untill the House Inspector gave his "Opinion".

    I want to address Proper Health and Saftey Issues with this. And Properly address any Issues with this electrical panel. But not Update the Panel.

    Last edited by Warren Scaman; 08-08-2010 at 03:39 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Is the heat, water heating, and range gas or electric?


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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Really this house has not have and problems with this, untill the House Inspector gave his "Opinion".


    Warren, If you are wanting to sell this house AS IS and the buyers had a home inspection done, it sounds like they are using the report to negotiate the price of the home's value. Tell them SELLING AS IS


  13. #13
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Furnace & Water Heater are Natural Gas.


    Oven and Range and A/C are Electric.( That's why there are 3-220 twin breaker's two original ones in 1962/3 for Oven and Range, then in ~ 1990'sh an AC was added. So yes twin breakers were available in 1962. They passed the Code in 1963 and got a certificate of occupancy. So everything was up to code in 1963.



    Not up to code was the twin wire in ~1980 for the dishwasher and microwave, looks like we have to add another twin breaker and take care of the hot twin wire in the breaker.


    Then I think we are back in code and can pass a Home Inspection Issues. Yes it is being Sold As is , but we have to take care of Know Violations we represented the House in Great Condition. So it's a Catch 22.

    Last edited by Warren Scaman; 08-06-2010 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    No that is not what YOU need to do regarding your questions.

    First of all that isn't the right approach, that is not the way to remediate the "two wires on one".

    Second, you are in the process of preparing to market/sell, actively marketing or a sale an "estate" home in the immediate future. You need a licensed ELECTRICIAN to make any remediations, corrections or repairs to the electrical system, even if you are the occupant.

    I believe you are confusing communications on breakers for 240V, 120/240V and 120V circuits i.e a two-pole breaker (240 v or 120/240V) with a tandem, twin or mini (120 V). Your own rendition of the addition of two circuits (dishwasher and microwave) in the early 80s would indicate that was when the two twins/tandem sets/pairs of minis were added substituting for two former full-size single pole (120v) circuits. The "two wires on one" of these - suggests additional circuit(s) alteration(s).

    The next breaker (the one with the circuit using a bare conductor/ribbon to the bar) is for which appliance? air conditioner, wall oven, range ('stove'), cooktop, or electric clothes dryer? Is the air conditioner a wall-unit with a cord and plug or is it a condenser outdoors with a small panel outdoors (with a fused or circuit breaker disconnect).

    In the minimalist spirit of your stated intentions in this topic string, and in the spirit of your stated concerns, there are other things which need to be addressed (and inspected) shown in that panel. They include (but are not limited to), assuring proper securing and bonding of the EMT conduit (and other metalic cable or conduit) being used as EGC (equipment grounding conductors) loose lock nuts, and GEC (Grounding Electrode Conductor) /panel bonding. Splices are permitted but they have to be done correctly and with the right equipment. Proper listed wirenuts correctly installed can serve that purpose in some instances.

    Since as you have already stated (and evidenced in the photo), unqualified, unpermitted, and uninspected modifications have taken place, and I believe those modifications are not limited to what you have outlined you are wise to be concerned as the one responsible for the sale. Get an electrician in to inspect, evaluate and advise on addressing those issues and proceed accordingly.

    I would also recommend that you seek the services of a qualified attorney well-skilled in real estate transactions and in assisting executors or trustees in the estate liquidation process. He/she can advise you regarding disclosures, contracts, liability, etc.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-06-2010 at 10:59 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    "Electrical panel with spliced neutral and hot wires. Creating poor connections,and shock and fire hazzard."

    Alrighty then!!
    Here in Ky where electricians have bare feet and afros, we tell'em, throw a piggy back breaker, ignore the wire caps and oh by the way, I'll bet that a/c breaker is a 40 amp. on a #10 copper wire.. it goes both ways on that one, some say yes, some say no, you say high I saw go, go, go!!! Oh no!.. and what about that main ground?? Aluminum!? WRONG size! But I am pretty blind, could be missing something there.. one thing I will agree with is you should hire an electricain to evaluate the panel period and decide what you need, not many home inspectors will give the full right answer, only the "well what I learned at the annual conference stuff" and some other book learned items.. real electricians give real answers.. code people give code answers. Good luck though!






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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by kenny martin;140489[COLOR=blue
    , I'll bet that a/c breaker is a 40 amp. on a #10 copper wire..[/color]
    There is quite a good possibility that this would be correct and Code compliant. Wire and OCPDs are sized based on a different set of sizing rules. Check the AC dataplate for the proper sizing.

    and what about that main ground?? Aluminum!? WRONG size!
    The only AL I see looks to the grounding conductor run with the cable going to the 2 pole breaker on the right hand side. Another thing to remember is that older insulations were thicker which would make an uninsulated conductor look smaller.

    Last edited by Jim Port; 08-06-2010 at 02:17 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by kenny martin View Post
    ...... not many home inspectors will give the full right answer, only the "well what I learned at the annual conference stuff" and some other book learned items.. real electricians give real answers.. code people give code answers. Good luck though!
    Are you saying "real electricians" and the "code people" have to be different people? Strange ideas I must say.


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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    You need to call an electrician to repair this panel what has not been noted is that some of those circuits appear to be multi wire branch circuits with a common neutral. Now that the twin breakers are installed the phase conductors may be the same phase and the neutral conductor would have the full load of both phase conductors instead of the unbalanced load between phases of those conductors.

    Last edited by paul hardy; 08-06-2010 at 08:03 PM.

  19. #19
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    Thumbs up Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    The only obvious code issue may be the two wires on a single set screw on the tandem breaker, depending on date of installation. In 1963 this was legal but the breaker they are on did not exist in 1963. All conduit lock nuts appear in place and are most likely tight.
    The spliced wires are acceptable as any panel with 8 or more circuit breaker spaces is code required to have an integral wireway, in which splices are legal.
    The only legal method of repair is to have a "licensed" & "qualified" "electrician" review and then make the needed repairs. Make sure you ask to see a current license even if the "electrician" is from a well known company. No license and in all probability you will be on the hook for any damages. A licensed electrician will not mind showing you the license he is required to carry while performing electrical work.
    No reason to replace the load center.
    Double pole breakers are for 120/240 volt single phase loads.
    Tandem single pole breakers are for 2 individual circuits and often replace full size single pole breakers allowing the addition of another load to the existing panel. (Yep, I dislike all tandem and "thin" breakers!)
    The service grounding electrode conductor is copper and appears to be adequate as only a # 8 AWG was required.
    "CTL" limitations did not exist in 1963 when the load center was manufactured and installed. The multiple tandems are legal.

    Folks, always remember if it was legal when it was installed it is still legal. A structure built in 1963 does not have to meet current code! All modifications must meet applicable code at the time of installation.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    "Are you saying "real electricians" and the "code people" have to be different people? Strange ideas I must say."

    Actually they are, BUT, they don't neccessarily have to be.

    But I was just giving real world experience, I talk to one electrican, licensed by the way, with not so much experience and another with many years experience and still get different answers. I talk to code officials and get different answers.. and sure enough, every answer on here is different most of the time. Call an electrican, licensed by the way, have HIM put in writing it did or didn't meet code at the time, fix what he says in writing needed fixed, give them paper work at closing, or better yet at disclosure and run!!


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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Scaman View Post
    House was cited by inspector ???

    Electrical panel with spliced neutral and hot wires. Creating poor connections,and shock and fire hazzard.

    What makes a splice in an electrical panel a poor connection and a fire hazard, and the splices in light fixture boxes, receptacle boxes and junction boxes NOT a hazard?


  22. #22
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    What makes a splice in an electrical panel a poor connection and a fire hazard, and the splices in light fixture boxes, receptacle boxes and junction boxes NOT a hazard?


    Thank you! You get the hanni cookie..


  23. #23
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by kenny martin View Post
    "Are you saying "real electricians" and the "code people" have to be different people? Strange ideas I must say."

    Actually they are, BUT, they don't neccessarily have to be.

    But I was just giving real world experience, I talk to one electrican, licensed by the way, with not so much experience and another with many years experience and still get different answers. I talk to code officials and get different answers.. and sure enough, every answer on here is different most of the time. Call an electrican, licensed by the way, have HIM put in writing it did or didn't meet code at the time, fix what he says in writing needed fixed, give them paper work at closing, or better yet at disclosure and run!!
    How does your theory apply if the HI is also a licensed electrician?


  24. #24
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    All I know is this family has Grown up and raised two children here and Both Owners Died in the Home of Natural Causes.


    Never a fire or a short in 47 years of "load testing" to say no problems with the 2 spices in the panel and the manyspices in all the other boxes in the house.

    This house is in Pristine condition and the average age with the updates are closer to 20 years old.

    Would we really have an Electrition Load test all splices, rather than changing out the one breaker with two wires in it?

    Last edited by Warren Scaman; 08-07-2010 at 04:59 PM.

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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Scaman View Post
    All I know is this family has Grown up and raised two children here and Both Owners Died in the Home of Natural Causes.


    Never a fire or a short in 47 years of "load testing" to say no problems with the 2 spices in the panel and the manyspices in all the other boxes in the house.

    This house is in Pristine condition and the average age with the updates are closer to 20 years old.

    Would we really have an Electrition Load test all splices, rather than changing out the one breaker with two wires in it?
    You seem to be fixated with the idea you need to ADD a breaker, I don't believe ANYONE HERE has said that. YOU keep saing that, I do not know WHY you keep saying that.

    YOU can't do electrical work because you're SELLING the property, not being the occupant or owner occupant intending to reside in the property for the next six months and no expectation of sale or rental during that time period, YOU aren't allowed to do electrical work on the property. YOU need to have an electrican do the electrical work, and apparently inspect the panel and illegal unpermitted former work because this has been identified, brought to your attention, and you are looking to sell the home on behalf of an estate without personal liability. It is (from your posts) seemingly apparent that you are not what the electrical code refers to as a "qualified person" in regards to electrical work.

    You represent the home as "in great condition" and now claim it is (despite admitted defects) pristine. There is obviously at least one less-than-pristine issue in that panel.

    Who said anything about "load testing"? Where did LOAD TESTING come into this??

    "Load testing"! Of course not. Unless you have unlisted, damaged, field modified, or SUSPECT equipment, and in that case it is cheaper to replace it.

    This is why I dislike DIY questions, especially with communication issues, terms, and those for which the language may be a barrier.

    I don't know where this is coming from, now the Load Testing phrase used twice, and now all these details about the deaths of two persons, seemingly unrelated and unnecessary information from curious series of posts. Is there some sort of claim or investigation regarding a suspected, or alledged injury or death going on?? The couple both died of "natural causes" in the home, at the same time? does this first referenced "inspector" "cited" have something to do with that, or the usual course of selling a home??? If there is some sort of "investigation" going on, call an attorney and nothing said previous or following should be considered beforehand.

    Unless there is something "else" going on, call an electrician for goodness sake! The panel is not pristine. You know this. You are aware of former unpermitted work and the double tap on the mid-80s installed tandem breaker. An Electrician will visualize/inspect the bus for signs of arcing, deterioration, etc., check the lugs and connections for torque, pig-tail that two wires on one to a single with a WIRE NUT, re-cut, strip and re-do the two splices seen with rated listed WIRE NUTS, neaten up the wiring paths a bit so the circut conductors and one spliced WIRE NUT aren't right across the LUGS on the left, possibly relocate the air conditioner breaker with its strained conductors higher up, check and tighten up the lock rings and bond on the upper right for the emt, verify GEC and give you a written receipt, with (if you asked for it) his opinion of the condition of the equipment.If he finds anything else that requires attention he will either address it while he's at it or advise you before hand if if involves any significant expense or time.

    The expense of a few listed wire nuts (three) and a small length of a conductor wire is less than adding a tandem breaker - something as you describe it is unnecessary and requires reworking the panel further. Unnecessary as you describe it.

    Nothing to "load test"???? If you have insufficient grounding electrodes (made electrode and water pipe entrance) you're not going to have an megger test, you'll just have a second rod installed (driven) outdoors and the electrician will make proper connections and documment it for far less money. Unlikely an issue.

    He might do some circuit tracing, verify continuity, etc. Verify and/or correct the panel schedule, but LOAD testing is not part of the necessary work. Wait, the panel does have its original LABELING doesn't it?

    GET IT DONE, have an electrician come in, evaluate, do the MINOR work, verify torque on lugs and breakers, resplice the two since "the inspector cited a problem with the connections, for whatever reason - perhaps bad, questionable or improperly installed wire nuts) have him pig-tail the double-tapped breaker, visualize the bus, etc.. If your local CODE INSPECTOR has an "issue" with "wire nuts" the local, licensed electrician will know this, and use another locally acceptable, code compliant splicing method. Problem solved, legally corrected, verified, Licensed electrician "evaluated", "the inspector's" comments rebutted, and you have what you need, documented, performed, and reported by a licensed electrician. The expense for the trip charge time and work time is minimal.

    Now if this "inspector" citation came from a Utility worker (Commonwealth Edison?) for a condition or hazard investigating a complaint, outage, issue, OR a CODE INSPECTOR for the village or city of Libertyville, Illinois (or the county of....?) and was issuing you a CITATION for illegal work (the modifications you mentioned in the 80s without a permit?), or a hazardous condition, that's another story. Does your municipality require the city/village to do a CODE inspection before transfer of property?

    You indicated in last post yesterday that there wasn't a "problem" until this "inspector" was there. IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING A NEW PROBLEM SYMPTOM, something may have been disturbed in the panel or with the wiring with the recent activity. HAVE THE ELECTRICIAN check it out.

    You know what? This is getting stranger by the post. I'm off this one.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-07-2010 at 06:59 PM. Reason: strange and ominous "details" showing up in posts, got me thinking, Hmmmm.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    A Electrician has been called out to inpect the Pannel that the House Inspector that took 3 hours to go over the house. not Com Ed or The Villlage Code inspector.


    Really Just want to fix what is really wrong if anything that might have been wrong 20 or so years ago.

    Will let the Electrician take over this Issue.

    I thank everyone for their words to better understand the real Issues. Alll Improvements with knowlege of a 47 year house with only 1 100 AMP Pannel, but with outletsand lights with Splices all homes have these,and a special thanks to H.G. Watson, Sr. those are common sense improvements frugal to make the home safer with code inprovemenst from 1963 to 2010.Thats really why this is a problem solutions there are many ideas that can improve this home for the new Occupants without upgrading to a 200AMP Panel.

    Last edited by Warren Scaman; 08-08-2010 at 08:23 AM.

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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Great news on the decision to proceed with an electrician regarding your panel concerns.

    Thank you for the recent post and clarifications.

    If you are looking to maximize safety and minimize future bartering or home inspector "citations" as issues in future or potential buyer's "inspection reports" on minimal electrical "safety issues" often cited in home inspection reports, even on older residences, you might consider or decide to have the electrician give you a written cost estimate of the expense to install GFCI protection for the receptacles in the kitchen countertop areas, bathroom receptacles and any exterior receptacles (with appropriate covers as necessary) and those in the garage and any unfinished areas of the basement, it may be helpful in your future negotiations.

    You may decide to go ahead and have some (bathroom only, bathroom and kitchen countertop) or all of that work done, it depends.

    Since GFCI protection was not required in the early 60s, GFCI protection for Bathroom receptacles not until in the early 70s, GFCI protection for kitchen counter top area receptacles not required until the mid to late 80s and the stated limited changes, doubtful was upgraded.

    If replacing bathroom receptacles it is required to "upgrade" them to include GFCI (ground fault circuit interuption) protection, if they aren't already provided with that protection. This can be done by a combination GFCI receptacle, and is usually the most cost effective approach for one in your "situation".

    Kind regards and good luck in your endeavors,

    H.G.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-07-2010 at 08:28 PM.

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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Guess I'm missing something here?? Now I hear multiple panels w/ multiple splices?? I'm getting dizzy and yes you have problems now, like I said before though, let the electrician control the situation.


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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by kenny martin View Post
    Guess I'm missing something here?? Now I hear multiple panels w/ multiple splices?? I'm getting dizzy and yes you have problems now, like I said before though, let the electrician control the situation.
    You "hear" things?

    No Kenny Martin, you've just invented that no mention of other panels has been made.

    You can view the panel (photo is on its side) picture he posted on original topic post. If you are confused looking at the panel, circuits are grounded - bonded EMT serves as the Equipment Grounding Conductor(s).

    One panel, spices in conductors for one circuit for which "inspector" called into question seemingly due to quality of work, unless ignorantly thinking such even when executed correctly was somehow not allowed (it is), that's where the two "wire nuts" (not "caps") are. Has additional circuit with double tapped circuit breaker requiring correction - i.e. a "pig-tail" to breaker (can be accomplished use of a not present 3rd "wire nut") - unknown if grounded conductor route for this circuit is presently correct. Was not established if A/C "circuit" was for a cord-and-plug wall unit or "hard wired" split unit with fused or protected disconnect outdoors. No mention of any other "panel" was made.

    He's selling or preparing to sell 1963-ish single-owner home on behalf of an estate.

    He is getting an electrician in to evaluate and make minimum for safety necessary corrections, due to prior work 25 years ago having been done by DIY type without permit, electricians license, or inspection (replacement of two each single pole breakers with to each single pole tandem breakers to accomodate the addition of two circuits one for dishwasher and one for installed microwave). He said the 120/240 Air Conditioner circuit was added sometime in the 1990s - That's the 2-pole circuit breaker on the lower left of the panel. Unsure if that work was done under permit, don't recall if he said either way.

    Not sure why you felt the need to comment when you did, perhaps it has to do with what you've been "hearing". Hopefully the above clears up your "questions". If you continue to "hear" such things, you might want to seek medical attention.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-08-2010 at 08:25 AM.

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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Scaman View Post
    special thanks to H.G. Watson, Sr. those are common sense improvements frugal to make the home safer with code inprovemenst from 1963 to 2010.Thats really why this is a problem solutions there are many ideas that can improve this home for the new Occupants without upgrading to a 200AMP Panel.
    Warren Scaman,

    I note your return and inserted comments referring to my post which originally followed.

    You are welcome.


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    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    "to say no problems with the 2 spices in the panel and the manyspices in all the other boxes in the house."

    That's why.. usually an amateur who throws in many other "spices" is not cooking soup but referring to "other" panels.. possibly, of course he is responding with new found knowledge that there are wire "nuts" in junction boxes?? Medical attention will not be needed for this thread, just other "issues". Anyway, your rant was wasteful and should have been saved to try and look more intelligent elsawhere.
    Revised today, after waking fully and re-reading my post..

    Actually what I meant to convey was more to the off the cuff, this is a copy of an apology I sent to H.G. for all to read, and yes I too am trying to "PLAY NICE!"

    Sorry..
    I just re-read my response to your thread, I did it when I was not quite awake this morning and it sounds as if I was being critical, my intention was more off the cuff and should have read something more like, "saved it to show your attention to detail elsewhere".
    Either way, some get easily ticked off as I also do at times.. too much caffiene and too many tasks at hand to practice patience maybe??
    I'm going to start a new thread called"new rules" that is going to offer an option to the seemingly bickering responses that often go on in many threads. It will ask all those who want to discuss things in a personal manner do it only by I.M. or starting another thread under general to continue under less public exposure.. anyway, sorry about the crass sounding reply. KDM. I also forgot my face when I wrote it..




    Last edited by kenny martin; 08-08-2010 at 06:43 PM. Reason: Too asleep to respond..

  32. #32
    Thomas Streicher's Avatar
    Thomas Streicher Guest

    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    I did not read all the replies to this so forgive me if I am repeating someone. It looks to me like the panel should be replaced, but doesnít have to be; there is no room for what is in it now after adding a few appliance circuits and I would mention that in a report more as a heads up then a safety problem. There is defiantly no room for expansion and I think a buyer should be aware of that. I would mention the double tap on the tandem breaker as a possible problem, I canít think of any tandem breakers that are designed for a double connection on one circuit but I would have to look into that further if doing an inspection. As for safety overall, everything is safe until something goes wrong and hurts someone. In my own house, a breaker blew because a hot wire in a box with a bare bulb fixture on it has been rubbing on a sharp edge in the box for 50 years. Every time the light went on the wire expanded from the heat of the bulb just enough to move it a bit and eventually sawed through. It was safe for 50 years until this happened. The arc melted (some would say vaporized?) a chuck off the box and snapped the wire, lucky the breaker blew before it got hotter. BTW, the panel in my house was about as bad as this one when I bought it. I had an electrician install a new 200 amp service, meter pan and panel within the first couple months of living in the house. I bought it knowing I would have to have that done. Itís not really a big deal if the buyer knows it is in their best interest to have this work done. I wouldnít worry about the spliced wires in the panel. If the panel is replaced there will be a lot more of that in the new panel when the old wires donít reach the breakers.


  33. #33
    Warren Scaman's Avatar
    Warren Scaman Guest

    Default Re: electrical panel w/ spliced hot & neutral

    Certified Electricians conclusion:

    100AMP is fine
    1960 Cutler Hammer panel w 12 breakers need to be changed out with a 20 breaker panel.( Now there is plenty room for growth , house is ~1100 Sq')

    Pull 2 new appliance wires to go to breaker no splice.

    Update all Bath and Kitchen, and outside outlets with GFI's

    Closets with open bulbs need globe fixtures.

    New sump in crawlspace need to come off the extension cord and have its own 15amp outlet.

    That will make this 1962 house into 2010 code not too bad under $1200.00.New breakers :}

    Thanks Again he was great and I understood the Issues.


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