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Thread: Wash your hands

  1. #66
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
    Roger Frazee Guest

    Default Re: Wash your hands

    Just want to add that I've had disagreements with receptacle location in the past. I used to know an electrician that located the dryer receptacle where it was easily reached and accessible left or right of the dryer when he coud do that. It was always fine with the inspectors. My opinion is those placements were not 5 inches away from a sink basin and possible water intrusion ...notice I'm not mentioning shock hazard here.

    The receptacle and power cord plug are not an emergency disconnect ...it is a means to disconnect for servicing the appliance. So location behind the appliance in my opinion is best ..keeps it away from little hands or whatever ...wife included and water contamination. If there is an electrical fire I do not want my wife or son or anybody else grabbing that power cord and coming in contact with the frame of that dryer cause they think they need to unplug the dang thing.

    To me somewhere behind the dryer not in an easily accessible location is best and should be considered over convenience or laziness or cost..

    As electricians the code addresses in the beginning articles we are charged with making safety considerations for humans and consideration for safety of equipment and hardware connected to our installations even if they are code complaint. At least that is how I've been taught if not black and white in the code language.

    So this receptacle is a no go IMO and not necessarily for safety reasons.... Even though it meets minimum code.

    Last edited by Roger Frazee; 08-17-2010 at 04:09 PM. Reason: added word easily
    Inspection Referral SOC

  2. #67
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Wash your hands

    If I was the electrician hired to move the receptacle and the person paying me (the seller) wanted it done as cheap as possible (not worried about how it looks) I would use a surface extension box, run a surface raceway to behind the washer/dryer, and install a surface mounted receptacle. Since all of the material used is metal.....would that be any safer than what is there now? Would that meet the approval at a reinspection by the guy's who say it should be moved? To me there is no difference in the safety level..

    I did an inspection on an older house for a young Chinese guy who was an intern at a nearby hospital. He spoke English better than I spoke Chinese but barely. It had two-wire receptacles in the entire house and the washer and refrigerator were plugged in using adapters. The only way I could I make him understand that appliances with metal cabinets need to be plugged into a grounded outlets was to tell him that his wife could get killed if she washing clothes and the cabinet of washer got energized while plugged in using the adapter. He finally saw how serious it could be and hopefully he had these circuits rewired. (I did not put the word "killed" in my report....I stuck with my standard working for ungrounded appliances)

    My point is that somethings are a major hazard and somethings are minimal hazards. The major is a repair item and the minimal are not....IMO.

    Last edited by James Duffin; 08-17-2010 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Spelling

  3. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    421

    Default Re: Wash your hands

    Just some notes; AHJ's don't have the "authority to supersede the code".
    The installation is code compliant, although not the best of designs.
    The HI could, as previously stated, mention a possible safety concern for the dryer receptacle and leave it at that (IMO)

    I receive about 1 call a week from a Realtor, seller, or buyer asking if a particular written report item from a HI is a code violation.
    In almost every circumstance it its not, which is why the item is being questioned.

    I am not suggesting than code compliant items of concern should not be brought to anyones attention, only that the language should be suggestive in nature. This to save face while still doing the job of informing and protection your client.
    A HI can write where AHJ's can't (or shouldn't)
    Bob Smit, County EI


  4. #69
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
    Roger Frazee Guest

    Default Re: Wash your hands

    ]Just some notes; AHJ's don't have the "authority to supersede the code".
    Yes bad choice of words but they can have that receptacle moved based on their evaluation it will be subject to water intrusion/contamination and subject to possible failure if left in that location .... no?


  5. #70
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Wash your hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Frazee View Post
    Yes bad choice of words but they can have that receptacle moved based on their evaluation it will be subject to water intrusion/contamination and subject to possible failure if left in that location .... no?
    I would think an AHJ would have no more authority to write their own code than a HI does. And why would they want to? Once you create your own set of codes and rules that are only available in your own mind how can you ever backup your new rules with facts and data? That is a slippery slope to be on IMO. The codes and SOP are your defense if you should ever need one. Once you step outside that bubble you are on your own.


  6. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    2,303

    Default Re: Wash your hands

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I would think an AHJ would have no more authority to write their own code than a HI does. And why would they want to? Once you create your own set of codes and rules that are only available in your own mind how can you ever backup your new rules with facts and data? That is a slippery slope to be on IMO. The codes and SOP are your defense if you should ever need one. Once you step outside that bubble you are on your own.
    In NC we have been discouraged from using code in the report. This was done to prevent us from dropping code in the report and marching on, implying it must be fixed. It is a double edge sword the board has given us. We can't easily use code in the report, but we can report what is wrong! If questioned as to why we said it is wrong we can use code to back up our assertion. The second thing is we can also use the intent of a code, just as a lawyer would use "case law", to back up reporting the outlet above a sink being dangerous.

    That is just my humble opinion. I hope our resident lawyer chimes in here

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    421

    Default Re: Wash your hands

    In Michigan at least, an AHJ is registered by the State only and is required to include the code article from where the violation exists.
    Again I state: A HI can write where an AHJ cannot (or shouldn't).


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