Panel question?

**Trent Tarter** · 08-20-2010, 11:06 AM

This place had a old 200 amp service with main service disconnect feeding two 100 amp panels. My question is that should the neutrals and grounds be separated since they are in panels downstream of main disconnect.

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James Duffin · 08-20-2010, 11:24 AM

Yes they should be separated. There are some other problems too that need to be addressed.

**Rollie Meyers** · 08-20-2010, 05:52 PM

Those are either Cutler-Hammer or Square D XO panels, they have been obsolete for about 50 years, which means they are poster children for a upgrade for numerous reasons.....

Tom King · 08-22-2010, 12:58 PM

Are those two panels tapping off of one breaker in the main panel?

Looks like some dead ended wires in one of the panels.

Wiring across the top of both.

They even look a bit overcrowded.

What else can you see...

**Robert Mattison** · 08-23-2010, 10:22 AM

I believe if you have a 200 amp. breaker serving as the service disconnect, then each panel would need individual protection.
Fuse at 100 amp. I can't comment on whether the grounding
conductors and grounds should be seperate, I don't have an NEC
CODE BOOK old enough to allow me to.

Perhaps Jerry Peck will find the time to comment on your question.

Mitchell Toelle · 08-23-2010, 10:35 AM

In this case, it would not matter what the NEC said about this installation when the house was built (or the panel was installed). We would need to report on the condition at the time of the inspection, and if the NEC says to isolate the neutrals and grounds...and bond the panels today...that is the recommendation we need to give our client......regardless of what "was".

**H.G. Watson, Sr.** · 08-23-2010, 01:18 PM

Irrespective of the code status when this (basing on named photograph - matching WallaWalla property presently listed) property was built (circa 1956), as the multitude of generational changes took place, and additions, whether the garage was at one time free standing, or was a car-port, note listing mentions many recent electrical installations and insulation/finishing of garage. When that connection took place and the panel(s) and disconnect became enclosed and addition of second panel (and the multitude of other substantial modifications), it was not correct. Bonding requirements for the service go back to before the great depression. Double lug and parallel bonding are likewise not correct. The feeders to other un-connected, such as in-ground pool, etc. also in question.

The clarity of the photo leaves much to be desired. Cannot determine if disconnect is fused. Cannot make out detail in any of the panels.

You should consider renaming your photos before you upload them.

Listing Detail | Windermere Real Estate

**Jerry Peck** · 08-23-2010, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Mattison

I believe if you have a 200 amp. breaker serving as the service disconnect, then each panel would need individual protection.
Fuse at 100 amp. I can't comment on whether the grounding
conductors and grounds should be seperate, I don't have an NEC
CODE BOOK old enough to allow me to.

James answered the grounding question.

Originally Posted by James Duffin

Yes they should be separated. There are some other problems too that need to be addressed.

Robert is correct on the 100 amp panels being protected only by a 200 amp main, and not only the panels but the feeders to the panels too - they would need to be protected to their rating (presuming 100 amp rated).

As the others have said, there is enough wrong to call for the electrician to replace everything as trying to correct everything may be more costly than simply replacing it with the correctly rated main and panels.

*Can* it be corrected without replacing it all? Sure.

*Should* it all be replaced as the 'correction'? Most definitely.