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Thread: Panel question?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Washington State
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    579

    Default Panel question?

    This place had a old 200 amp service with main service disconnect feeding two 100 amp panels. My question is that should the neutrals and grounds be separated since they are in panels downstream of main disconnect.

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  2. #2
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Panel question?

    Yes they should be separated. There are some other problems too that need to be addressed.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Chico,Ca
    Posts
    423

    Default Re: Panel question?

    Those are either Cutler-Hammer or Square D XO panels, they have been obsolete for about 50 years, which means they are poster children for a upgrade for numerous reasons.....


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    55

    Default Re: Panel question?

    Are those two panels tapping off of one breaker in the main panel?

    Looks like some dead ended wires in one of the panels.

    Wiring across the top of both.

    They even look a bit overcrowded.

    What else can you see...


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Manchester, Vermont
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    298

    Cool Re: Panel question?

    I believe if you have a 200 amp. breaker serving as the service disconnect, then each panel would need individual protection.
    Fuse at 100 amp. I can't comment on whether the grounding
    conductors and grounds should be seperate, I don't have an NEC
    CODE BOOK old enough to allow me to.

    Perhaps Jerry Peck will find the time to comment on your question.


  6. #6
    Mitchell Toelle's Avatar
    Mitchell Toelle Guest

    Default Re: Panel question?

    In this case, it would not matter what the NEC said about this installation when the house was built (or the panel was installed). We would need to report on the condition at the time of the inspection, and if the NEC says to isolate the neutrals and grounds...and bond the panels today...that is the recommendation we need to give our client......regardless of what "was".


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Panel question?

    Irrespective of the code status when this (basing on named photograph - matching WallaWalla property presently listed) property was built (circa 1956), as the multitude of generational changes took place, and additions, whether the garage was at one time free standing, or was a car-port, note listing mentions many recent electrical installations and insulation/finishing of garage. When that connection took place and the panel(s) and disconnect became enclosed and addition of second panel (and the multitude of other substantial modifications), it was not correct. Bonding requirements for the service go back to before the great depression. Double lug and parallel bonding are likewise not correct. The feeders to other un-connected, such as in-ground pool, etc. also in question.

    The clarity of the photo leaves much to be desired. Cannot determine if disconnect is fused. Cannot make out detail in any of the panels.

    You should consider renaming your photos before you upload them.

    Listing Detail | Windermere Real Estate


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: Panel question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Mattison View Post
    I believe if you have a 200 amp. breaker serving as the service disconnect, then each panel would need individual protection.
    Fuse at 100 amp. I can't comment on whether the grounding
    conductors and grounds should be seperate, I don't have an NEC
    CODE BOOK old enough to allow me to.
    James answered the grounding question.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Yes they should be separated. There are some other problems too that need to be addressed.
    Robert is correct on the 100 amp panels being protected only by a 200 amp main, and not only the panels but the feeders to the panels too - they would need to be protected to their rating (presuming 100 amp rated).

    As the others have said, there is enough wrong to call for the electrician to replace everything as trying to correct everything may be more costly than simply replacing it with the correctly rated main and panels.

    *Can* it be corrected without replacing it all? Sure.

    *Should* it all be replaced as the 'correction'? Most definitely.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Manchester, Vermont
    Posts
    298

    Wink Re: Panel question?

    Nice call, Jerry, suggesting the ungrade. Your advice is very sound.


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