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  1. #1
    Ted Poppke's Avatar
    Ted Poppke Guest

  2. #2
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
    Roger Frazee Guest

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Hi Ted

    Just to give you advance warning this is a home inspectors site and not a homeowner do it yourself help site. You need to correct several things from what I see in your description and photo's.

    Someone here may decide to give you guidance but I'm going to defer to others as there has been complaints about advising DIY here.

    However here are two very good sites for you to post your questions ...

    Self Help Forums - Powered by vBulletin

    Electrical - DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum


  3. #3
    Ted Poppke's Avatar
    Ted Poppke Guest

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Hi, deleting my account.

    Last edited by Ted Poppke; 12-01-2010 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Deleting account

  4. #4
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
    Roger Frazee Guest

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Poppke View Post
    Roger,

    Thanks; I had a home inspection done prior to purchase, but the inspector would not look at anything associated with the pool. In this area of the world, pools are rare. If this were FL or CA, I'm sure a HI would include pools in their report.

    I'm not yet committed to a DIY project or hiring it out. It's within my capabilities once I understand the code. Assuming that someone paid a journeyman electrician to do this existing installation and that it passed inspection, could I do worse?

    Ted
    Guess that HI didn't know much about pools ...

    I do not think a licensed electrician did the electrical work on your pool...

    Anyway here is a free download that should be current to the 2002 electrical code. there are some changes in 2005 and 2008. Also local code has a lot to say about how the pool is installed so check both sources.

    http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Pooldownload.pdf


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,243

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Without looking at the photos, here are some answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Poppke View Post
    Questions:

    1. Is the current location of the pool house panel a problem due to access reasons? I plan on moving it because I hate crawling over stuff to get to it.
    SOMETHING is wrong as the REQUIRED working space in front of the panel does not allow for ANYTHING to be in that space, which is REQUIRED to be 30" wide by 36" deep in front of the panel, and that there be an access route to that space, basically the same width, but maybe allowed to be 22"-24" wide.

    2. Does the 15 amp dual breaker to the pool pump have to be GFI? Do these motors run on a GFI breaker, or is there too much electrical leakage and the breaker will nuisance trip?
    That would not be a "nuisance trip", that would be a "life saving trip", you DO NOT WANT TO USE A POOL PUMP with that much leakage current.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mahtomedi, Minnesota
    Posts
    92

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Poppke View Post
    Assuming that someone paid a journeyman electrician to do this existing installation and that it passed inspection, could I do worse?

    Ted
    I don't know you, you don't know me, so let me just say this - When dealing with swimming pools a little knowledge is sometimes a bad thing... so it's possible that you don't even know what you don't know, and that can be deadly. So please consider hiring a professional.

    There's lots of special wiring at swimming pools - wiring that is not common anywhere else in a home. It's advanced wiring and not something for beginners to experiment on. Most homeowners and DIY'ers have no clue. There's a reason why many inspectors don't inspect pools and why many licensed electricians don't work on pools.

    Your photo shows improper wiring and you said hemicals and chlorine are stored in the same room - not good.

    Call an electrician and fix the wiring. The rust on (and inside) breakers can interfere with proper operation so plan to replace them. Ask the electrician to evaluate (test) the ground system of the pool to insure it's still functional. If not, fix it.

    Move chemicals to a different location where air will not communicate with pool equipment.

    Fred Comb, ACI
    Mahtomedi, MN
    www.homeinspectionsofmn.com

  7. #7
    Ted Poppke's Avatar
    Ted Poppke Guest

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Fred,

    Thanks. For a new panel, I think I'll spec tin-plated copper bus. The bus on this panel looks fair, but the main lugs are corroded.

    I see no sign of grounding on the building or grounding with the cement around the pool. I'll quiz the pool contractor on this. It was put in in 1982, but he's still here.

    I believe I'll have to hunt up an electrician that the pool installer trusts.

    It look like the pool chemicals will have to find a new home; probably a small plastic contraption from a big-box store. The chlorine has to be destroying the outlets, switches, heater, and motor.

    Thanks,

    Ted


  8. #8
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Ted...

    Two things that are new in the 2009 code about pools are ....1-All pool motors now have to be GFCI protected...and 2-There has to be a 9 sq inch piece of metal installed in the pool water and bonded to the pool bonding conductor. There are now fittings available for this purpose.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Rockwall Texas
    Posts
    4,519

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Ted...

    Two things that are new in the 2009 code about pools are ....1-All pool motors now have to be GFCI protected...and 2-There has to be a 9 sq inch piece of metal installed in the pool water and bonded to the pool bonding conductor. There are now fittings available for this purpose.

    What?


  10. #10
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    (C) Pool Water.
    An intentional bond of a minimum conductive
    surface area of 5806 mm
    2 (9 in.2) shall be installed
    in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted
    to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in

    680.26(B).



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,243

    Default Re: Swimming Pool panel

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Ted...

    Two things that are new in the 2009 code about pools are ....1-All pool motors now have to be GFCI protected...and 2-There has to be a 9 sq inch piece of metal installed in the pool water and bonded to the pool bonding conductor. There are now fittings available for this purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    What?
    The first devices were metal plates installed in the back of the skimmers, these are still available, however, most now simply use a piece of metal pipe with an interior square inch dimension which meet the requirements, the metal pipe is bonded to the pool steel and the water flows through the metal pipe, which is inserted between two sections of plastic pipe.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On The Mason-Dixon Line
    Posts
    577

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Also allowed is the use of any metallic ladders, handrails, ladder cups,handrail cups, that are in contact with the water and combined total up to or more then 9 sq. inches.


  13. #13
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Our AHJ requires it to be a device that is permanent and can not be removed. So far most of what I have seen are skimmers with a metal plate inside and a connection on the outside of the skimmer for the bond wire.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Rockwall Texas
    Posts
    4,519

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Anyone have such a picture of this plate? I've never seen one.

    rick


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,243

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Anyone have such a picture of this plate? I've never seen one.

    rick

    Bond Safe 680

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Swimming Pool Subpanel


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