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  1. #1
    Lars Knobloch's Avatar
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    Default Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    In this panel all the neutrals are double tapped, as you can see on the first picture.
    On the second picture you see 2 lugs being double tapped.
    On the third picture the lug is double tapped, where the upper wire is aluminum(does not show to good on the picture) and the lower wire is copper.
    Please let me know what you think about this panel.

    From what I understand this is a safety hazard and can possibly cause a fire.
    Should I recommend a repair immediately for this? Or am I totally wrong?
    Could someone please explain to me about the double tapping with aluminum and copper on the same lug? I could not see that this cabinet is bonded, could the bonding possibly be hidden behind something?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    The neutrals sharing the same hole as the grounds is wrong. Neutrals cannot share the hole. One neutral per hole. Grounds can be doubled in certain size ranges.

    Square D breakers in the 15-30 amp sizes are listed for two conductors.

    I cannot make out anything in the third pic. It is too fuzzy.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Knobloch View Post
    ...I could not see that this cabinet is bonded, could the bonding possibly be hidden behind something?
    That flat head screw with the slightly greenish tinge to it in the upper left looks like it could be the bond.

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  4. #4
    Lars Knobloch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post

    Square D breakers in the 15-30 amp sizes are listed for two conductors.
    So 4 12AWG copper wires on 2 different screws on a 20amp breaker is a proper installation?(see 2nd picture)
    Is there any other types of breakers that are listed for 2 wires on the same screw?

    Really appreciate the help guys.


  5. #5
    Philip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    I do not think all Square D are double tapable.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Look for the saddle clamp under the screw.

    If the two wires are held by the screw itself, it's wrong.

    If the two wires are each under one side of the saddle clamp under the screw, it's OK.

    Diagram on Breaker



    Saddle Clamp on Breaker


    I think you're right, Phillip. Gotta check the breaker.


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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Knobloch View Post
    So 4 12AWG copper wires on 2 different screws on a 20amp breaker is a proper installation?(see 2nd picture)
    Is there any other types of breakers that are listed for 2 wires on the same screw?

    Really appreciate the help guys.
    Cutler Hammer type CH breakers from 10 to 30 Amp, 1 and 2 pole, are listed for 2 wires. You can mix sizes from #14 to #10 , aluminum and copper, and solid and stranded wire - placed per instructions.

    Their CHQ classified breakers in 15 to 30 Amp sizes are listed for 2 wires.

    Aside from the SqD QO breakers I'm not aware of any other current manufacture breakers rated for 2 wires per terminal.


  8. #8
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    I do not think all Square D are double tapable.
    Many square D are. Also the newer panels may be marked for up to two neutrals of the same size under one screw or ground wires under one screw. It would be listed on the tag but not that panel and only grounds and only neutrals under the same screw not combined. It all depends on the individual panel and or breakers as to what can be .

    I don't have the picture handy for the breakers and or panel that accept double wires.


  9. #9
    Lars Knobloch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    The wires are all under the saddle clamp, but the diagram is not on the breaker.
    There is no information in the panel that tells me it is accepted to have 2 wires on the same screw.
    So is the conclusion that this is proper because its a D-breaker, or improper because there is no visible information saying 2 wires are accepted?

    Also, does anyone have a comment on #14 aluminum wire and #12 copper wire on same screw in a 20 amp breaker ?


  10. #10
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Knobloch View Post
    The wires are all under the saddle clamp, but the diagram is not on the breaker.
    There is no information in the panel that tells me it is accepted to have 2 wires on the same screw.
    So is the conclusion that this is proper because its a D-breaker, or improper because there is no visible information saying 2 wires are accepted?

    Also, does anyone have a comment on #14 aluminum wire and #12 cobber wire on same screw in a 20 amp breaker ?
    No matter where the application you do not put aluminum and copper under the same screw. The only time you would mix copper and aluminum would be with the proper pigtail at electric boxes designed specifically for the application. This is done to remove the mecahnical connection of aluminum to fixture and the possibility of loose connections from expansion and contraction.

    As others have said the Square D breakers will have the proper mount on each side of the screw on that breaker. If your were to (and you would not as a home inspector) pull the breaker you would see it marked on the breaker.


  11. #11
    Lars Knobloch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Greatly appreciated!


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Many square D are. Also the newer panels may be marked for up to two neutrals of the same size under one screw or ground wires under one screw. It would be listed on the tag but not that panel and only grounds and only neutrals under the same screw not combined. It all depends on the individual panel and or breakers as to what can be .

    I don't have the picture handy for the breakers and or panel that accept double wires.
    The NEC requires that the neutrals be one per hole.

    NEC

    408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations.
    Each
    grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard
    in an individual terminal that is not also used for another
    conductor.

    Lars, the diagram is on the side of the breaker. The label inside the panel will have the terminal sizes abd combinations. Typically on the left side.




  13. #13
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Knobloch View Post
    Also, does anyone have a comment on #14 aluminum wire and #12 copper wire on same screw in a 20 amp breaker ?

    1. 14 AWG anything on a 20 amp breaker is wrong. The lower the gauge number the "fatter" the conductor (minus its insulation).

    20 amps = #12 copper or #10 alum.

    I can guess perhaps you are confusing modern #12 THHN with old tinned copper with rubber or older TW insulation. There is nothing able to be seen in your third picture.

    ungrounded conductors may not be insulated white.

    Panels which are/were listed to have multiple conductors in a terminal generally indicate that the conductors sharing the terminal must be of the same material, size and type conductor - meaning for example two solid copper #12 in same "hole", two solid tinned copper #14's in same "hole", two aluminum #12, etc. Not a #14 solid copper in same "hole as a #12, or a tinned copper sharing "hole" with a solid copper, or a stranded sharing hole with solid, or aluminum sharing hole with tinned copper, etc.

    Neutrals and grounds never in same terminal "hole".


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    P.S. if this panel is being "fed" from service equipment elsewhere it is all wrong.


  15. #15
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Lars

    I don't think you have #14 al as mentioned by HG and I don't see any al on the neutral bars except for a stranded al on the right hand terminal bar. #14 al is not acceptable in residential branch circuit wiring.

    Bonding screw location for square d should be shown on the specifications sheet on the panel cover. It will say something like "box bonding when required" just above the wiring diagram and is usually designated by the number 1 on the diagram.

    I've shown a couple common locations for the bonding screw on that type square d panel but this does vary from panel style to panel style. I am not certain that I see a bonding screw in your posted images. If this panel is 'service equipment' it needs to have that bonding screw installed. Only way to be sure is by the wiring diagram location. If that is unreadable then sometimes if you are able to look along the bonding strap between the left and right neutral bars at the vacant holes you might be able to see if the hole will allow a screw to thread into the metal of the panel. The screw should be green in color. It may be hex head or phiilips or robertson. It will be one of the holes that penetrates the bonding strap that runs between the neutral terminal bars. To my knowledge square d does not use a bonding screw that utilizes a hole in the neutral bar itself like the grounded conductors (white) and equipment grounds for the type panel shown.

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  16. #16
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    The NEC requires that the neutrals be one per hole.

    NEC

    408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations.
    Each
    grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard
    in an individual terminal that is not also used for another
    conductor.

    Lars, the diagram is on the side of the breaker. The label inside the panel will have the terminal sizes abd combinations. Typically on the left side.

    Not to contradict but if a panel tag says it is OK then it is OK. It matters not what the NEC says about it.


  17. #17
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Not to contradict but if a panel tag says it is OK then it is OK. It matters not what the NEC says about it.
    Nope ... your not going to find any local code or NEC code that allows 2 branch circuit grounded conductors under 1 termination. The fact of the matter is you must comply with the required national and local code under adoption for your area. If it says NO then NO it is...unless you want to fail inspection and pay for a return visit from the codes official.

    For many years the practice of terminating 2 grounded branch circuit conductors was allowed by code officials in my area. However as the industry became more 'learned' this practice was stopped, nada, no more. Now all older panels under a permit inspection will be required to have this practice corrected.

    You made the comment earlier that newer panels allow 2 neutrals under one termination screw. I am assuming you mean the connection of the branch circuits grounded conductors and equipment grounds.


    Also the newer panels may be marked for up to two neutrals of the same size under one screw
    I think your going to have a hard time finding a listed residential load center under the umbrella of the NEC that will allow that practice.... And the reason is not that the terminal will not accept 2 conductors.

    Last edited by Roger Frazee; 08-31-2010 at 01:37 PM.

  18. #18
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Frazee View Post
    Nope ... your not going to find any local code or NEC code that allows 2 branch circuit grounded conductors under 1 termination. The fact of the matter is you must comply with the required national and local code under adoption for your area. If it says NO then NO it is...unless you want to fail inspection and pay for a return visit from the codes official.

    For many years the practice of terminating 2 grounded branch circuit conductors was allowed by code officials in my area. However as the industry became more 'learned' this practice was stopped, nada, no more. Now all older panels under a permit inspection will be required to have this practice corrected.

    You made the comment earlier that newer panels allow 2 neutrals under one termination screw. I am assuming you mean the connection of the branch circuits grounded conductors and equipment grounds.


    I think your going to have a hard time finding a listed residential load center under the umbrella of the NEC that will allow that practice.... And the reason is not that the terminal will not accept 2 conductors.
    Plain and simple. There are in fact CH and Square D that do in fact allow Grounds or neutrals up to x amount for their panels. I have posted pictures in the past of the panels and panel tags that do allow double grounds and double neutrals under one screw of the same size wires.

    Sorry, not hard pressed at all. Either I will find them or some one will go into the back log of posts or someone will post their own pics. This was discussed many times in the past and one of those times I just happen to do an inspection that day of a CH panel and and took pictures of such and posted the pics. I do not separate my pics from job to job so it takes some digging to find those pics. It was mentioned again and I had recently done a SD panel listed the same.

    I am certainly not trying to argue the point I am just pointing out facts. As you say, if the manufacturer has had it tested and past and tags it on the panel as OK then it is OK. To fail an inspection for such would be fool hardy whether you are a municipal inspector or not or whether the NEC says no or not. Of course if you just decided on your own as a Municipal inspector to fail it then I am not sure why you would do such with it listed as such per the manufacturer. Manufacturer installs out way code in most instances with most systems whether it be electrical, HVAC or plumbing. For that matter fireplaces, appliances etc etc etc.

    I will try to find it when I get the time but if anyone else wishes to chime in then have at it. I am sure I am not the only one with such info.


  19. #19
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Ted

    Your going to have to show me cause I can't find it in the search of your replies....just to freakin time consuming to go through all those threads.


    I will restate what I said ...It has never been allowed by the NEC and is now directly and clearly addressed in NEC 408.41.. It just took them awhile to realize the confusion, I'm not sure what year it was clarified.

    The possibility that a panel labeling for CH or Square D actually says 2 branch circuit Grounded Conductors under one termination isn't going to help you and I do not think you will find a 'newer' panel as you stated that allows it.

    The NEC and local codes forbid this practice and you will fail inspection. It is not about the fact that the terminal will accept 2 conductors, they will with limitations...but not more than one grounded conductor.

    Example here ... you cannot terminate two grounded conductors together in the same terminal and it doesn't matter how you interpret the panel labeling

    http://www.eminnetonka.com/community...quirements.pdf

    Scroll down to wiring methods and 408.41

    I am bond by local code and the adopted NEC for my local jurisdiction not the manufacturer so even if you find me a panel that says 2 grounded conductors allowed I am not going to be able to terminate them in that manner and pass inspection.....period.

    Maybe I'm missing your point but it seems very clear to these old eyes...

    You are aware of the reason this is not allowed ..yes?


  20. #20
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Ted ... for your information and others ...

    Here is the proposal that was accepted by committee to clarify the code in this regard of two neutrals/grounded conductors (in 2002 I believe) regardless of manufacturer instructions or labeling confusion.

    Notice it was submitted by staff at Square D.

    408.41, was what I was wondering about. So previous to 2002 it would have been legal to put two wires under the same terminal of a neutral bar in a loadcenter?
    No. It has been a 110.3(B) violation for at least 25 years. The rule was placed in the code because too many installers were not reading the instructions that are provided with the panel.
    9- 113 - (384-21 (New) ): Accept
    SUBMITTER: James T. Pauley, Square D Co.
    RECOMMENDATION: Add a new 384-21 to read as follows:
    384-21. Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.
    Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel parallel shall be permitted to terminate in a single terminal if the terminal is identified for connection of more than one conductor.

    SUBSTANTIATION: This revision is needed to coordinate the installation requirements with a long standing product standard requirement. Clause 12.3.10 of UL 67 (Panelboards) states “An individual terminal shall be provided for the connection of each branch-circuit neutral conductor.” The requirement has been enforced in the past by a close review of the manufacturers markings and by NEC 110-3(b). However, since it is a rule that specifically effects how the installer can make connections, it is important that it be in the NEC.

    Even with the manufacturers markings, inspectors still indicate that they see a number of panelboards installed with two (or more) branch circuit neutrals under one terminal or they see an equipment grounding conductor and neutral under the same terminal.

    There is very good rationale for the requirement in the product standards. Doubling up on the neutrals creates a significant problem when the circuit needs to be isolated. In order to isolate the circuit, the branch breaker is turned off and the neutral is disconnected by removing it from the terminal. If the terminal is shared with another circuit, the connection on the other (still energized) circuit will be loosened as well. This can wreak havoc, particularly if the neutral is part of a 120/240V multi-wire branch circuit. Also, the neutral assemblies are not evaluated with doubled-up neutrals in the terminals.

    The connection of a neutral and equipment grounding conductor creates a similar issue. One of the objectives of the particular arrangement of bonding jumpers, neutrals and equipment grounds is to allow circuit isolation while keeping the equipment grounding conductor still connected to the grounding electrode (see UL 896A - Reference standard for Service Equipment). When the neutral is disconnected, the objective is to still have the equipment ground solidly connected to the grounding electrode. If both the neutral and grounded conductor are under the same terminal, this cannot be accomplished.

    This addition to the NEC does not change any product or permitted wiring arrangement from what it is today. It will however, it will help installers to avoid wiring the panel in violation of 110-3(b) and then have to contend with a red-tag from the inspector. The code language is proposed in a fashion to allow consistent enforcement of the provision the the AHJ. Although the UL wording is adequate for the product standard, it is important that the NEC language is as clear an unambiguous as possible. This is the reason for specifically noting that the terminal cannot be used for another conductor. Furthermore, the code requirement has been worded to make sure that both branch circuit and feeder neutrals are covered since it is not uncommon to have feeder breakers as well as branch breakers in the panelboard (the issue for the neutral is the same regardless of branch or feeder). Also, the term “grounded conductor” is used to be consistent with the code terminology and to recognize that not all grounded conductors are neutrals.

    An exception has been proposed to avoid any confusion relative to parallel circuit arrangements. In these instances, multiple neutrals could be in a single terminal if the terminal has been identified as acceptable for multiple conductors.
    PANEL ACTION: Accept.
    In the proposed exception, change the second instance of the word “parallel” to “conductors”.
    PANEL STATEMENT: The correction of the typographical error meets the intent of the submitter.
    NUMBER OF PANEL MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 11
    VOTE ON PANEL ACTION:
    AFFIRMATIVE: 11


  21. #21
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Frazee View Post
    Ted

    Your going to have to show me cause I can't find it in the search of your replies....just to freakin time consuming to go through all those threads.


    I will restate what I said ...It has never been allowed by the NEC and is now directly and clearly addressed in NEC 408.41.. It just took them awhile to realize the confusion, I'm not sure what year it was clarified.

    The possibility that a panel labeling for CH or Square D actually says 2 branch circuit Grounded Conductors under one termination isn't going to help you and I do not think you will find a 'newer' panel as you stated that allows it.

    The NEC and local codes forbid this practice and you will fail inspection. It is not about the fact that the terminal will accept 2 conductors, they will with limitations...but not more than one grounded conductor.

    Example here ... you cannot terminate two grounded conductors together in the same terminal and it doesn't matter how you interpret the panel labeling

    http://www.eminnetonka.com/community...quirements.pdf

    Scroll down to wiring methods and 408.41

    I am bond by local code and the adopted NEC for my local jurisdiction not the manufacturer so even if you find me a panel that says 2 grounded conductors allowed I am not going to be able to terminate them in that manner and pass inspection.....period.

    Maybe I'm missing your point but it seems very clear to these old eyes...

    You are aware of the reason this is not allowed ..yes?
    Fine as you say. You are bound by such.

    As far as not finding a panel that states xxx. I am not sure what your thought process is but I just told you I have seen them on several occasions and even posted here within the past year to year and a half so I guess that blows that theory out of the water.
    Let me repeat because you did not read it. I have found them, read them, took picture of them so I do not understand what the problem is with me saying I have found them, inspected them and took pictures of the tags in the past and I am positive someone on here will remember and confirm. I do not wish to go over countless inspection pics or a thousand posts for you just to prove to you what I say. I do not speak out of the lower rear hole. If I have done something and telling you I did then you can rest assured they are out there and I in fact have inspected and pictured them.

    I cannot help it if you have never seen any of these countless panels.

    Yes I will try to look it up....just for you so you will stop saying that YOU DOUBT THAT I WOULD FIND........I have found and reported such.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Going to disagree with you Ted. As a long time installer of Square D, the label does not say that two grounded conductors can terminate in one hole. It does say that unused neutral buss holes can be used for up to two grounding conductors.

    This used to be spelled out in the UL standard, but was added to the NEC to allow better access to this requirement.


  23. #23
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Ted

    Calm down... I'm not saying you are mistaken ... I'm saying I have never seen a panel labeling that states two grounded conductors under one screw on a neutral bussbar. I just need some documentation ... and that seems a reasonable request.

    It doesn't mean one doesn't exist but you stated 'newer' panels and this confuses me as the manufacturers are fully aware of 408.31 and have always been aware of the UL standard that Jim points out for at least 25 years to my knowledge. As I said the practice of terminating two neutrals under one screw was common when I first came into the trade....but not because the panel label allowed it...


  24. #24
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Frazee View Post
    Ted

    Calm down... I'm not saying you are mistaken ... I'm saying I have never seen a panel labeling that states two grounded conductors under one screw on a neutral bussbar. I just need some documentation ... and that seems a reasonable request.

    It doesn't mean one doesn't exist but you stated 'newer' panels and this confuses me as the manufacturers are fully aware of 408.31 and have always been aware of the UL standard that Jim points out for at least 25 years to my knowledge. As I said the practice of terminating two neutrals under one screw was common when I first came into the trade....but not because the panel label allowed it...
    This is where I saw all those panels :-)

    Actually I do not know where the panels were so I have to find them. I just went thru some post back in 09 but I believe I posted the pics before that. I am not exactly sure the type of panel. I said CH or SD but it may even have been Siemen. not sure

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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Whatta we got so far?

    The NEC says that GROUNDED conductors must be individually terminated - can't have 2 or more grounded conductors (neutrals) terminated at a single terminal. At the point the NEC says no, it doesn't matter what the panel manufacturer says, although I suppose it's possible that differences in the CEC and NEC might make for confusion if one allows and one doesn't. Still, unless the panel is listed for use both places, in which case the label should take all contingencies into account, it's unlikely the NEC and a panel listing would disagree.

    GROUNDING conductors, the bare wires or green ones, are allowed to have from 1 to 3 per terminal, depending on wire size and manufacturer. GENERALLY two wire the same size are allowed although I've seen some that allow a mixing of sizes (GE comes to mind). This is a nasty issue because add-on ground buss bars may have a different listing than those installed at the factory, and it's often impossible to tell if the ground buss is factory or add-on.

    The panel doesn't get to tell you how many wires get attached to a breaker, the breaker's listing does. As noted, there are 2 currently manufactured breaker makes, in a limited number of sizes and styles, that allow 2 wires on a termination. There are some older ones that look like they might have been designed for two but I've never been fortunate enough to find the listing on those breakers (gummy paper label) intact.

    Finally, my pictures of panel labels allowing 2 neutrals per termination appear to have bit the dust in an old hard drive crash. I've seen and photographed only 2, seems like they were the same kind and are a now obsolete brand (not aware they got bought out, just went out of business - maybe Wentworth) and they were pretty old panels. I've been doing this about 39 years so far and don't ever remember seeing a panel I bought new saying 2 neutrals per terminal was OK. Of course, out my way there are brands of panels that were never used or that I've only seen 1 or 2 of.

    Be aware there are panel labels that address the ground and neutral buss and state that 2 or 3 wires is ok, then a sentence or two later clarify that in the case of a neutral only 1 is allowed.


  26. #26
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Ya know this seems to be such a dead horse. I'm not sure which is argued more ground hole up or down on a receptacle or two neutrals under one screw. It amazes me how we continue to argue the obvious.

    Anyway if it is ok with everybody i'm gonna put one neutral per termination and my ground holes down..... unless the receptacle is brown....


  27. #27
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    TED

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...-heaven.jpgTed

    Now I know your pulling my leg the custom dreamliner at the bottom ..the red and white one .. it's mine.....


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Frazee View Post
    Ya know this seems to be such a dead horse. I'm not sure which is argued more ground hole up or down on a receptacle or two neutrals under one screw. It amazes me how we continue to argue the obvious.

    Anyway if it is ok with everybody i'm gonna put one neutral per termination and my ground holes down..... unless the receptacle is brown....

    Stick around.

    This stuff is good for 70 or 80 posts 'round here. The questions often gets dragged over to the "well this what we/everybody/the inspector said we've always done or we need to do versus what the NEC and the UL listing say is supposed to happen" type discussions. Then there's the disagreement on just what it is the code says and sometimes we need an opinion from the NEC folks on just what it is that they said. Of course, without a new consensus from the entire code panel as to whether the written code actually says what they wanted it to and what they said/wrote actually means, the answer is still an opinion. So what is, in your opinion, obvious? And to whom?

    If the NEC says no, you can't. If the NEC gives instructions you have to follow them. If it does neither, you can - unless the listing says you can't. Or, if the listing says OK but the manufactures says no, you can't (shouldn't happen, but it does) Finally, if the AHJ doesn't like it, you can't - until they can't provide a code reference, or you talk to their boss, or their boss's boss. Then sometimes you gotta get a judge involved.

    What else you going to do with your spare time?


  29. #29
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapping and aluminum on same lug as copper

    Stick around.
    I think I will, this is better than going to the movies and cheaper....

    If the NEC says no, you can't. If the NEC gives instructions you have to follow them. If it does neither, you can - unless the listing says you can't. Or, if the listing says OK but the manufactures says no, you can't (shouldn't happen, but it does) Finally, if the AHJ doesn't like it, you can't - until they can't provide a code reference, or you talk to their boss, or their boss's boss. Then sometimes you gotta get a judge involved.
    You forgot your State Senator ...you know they are involved with the politics of it all and it's politicians that appoint the inspectors......


    What else you going to do with your spare time?
    True .. this seems to be as good as anything


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