Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Gary Winfield's Avatar
    Gary Winfield Guest

    Default Electrical Panel

    Couple questions ?? I made an inspection and noticed double tapping on the electrical panels. Somewhere I thought I heard that you could double up with neutrals to neutrals or ground to ground. But NOT a neutral with a ground.

    Not sure True or False ??

    See photos

    Similar Threads:
    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Member Benefits1

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    2,476

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Winfield View Post
    Couple questions ?? I made an inspection and noticed double tapping on the electrical panels. Somewhere I thought I heard that you could double up with neutrals to neutrals or ground to ground. But NOT a neutral with a ground. Not sure True or False ?? See photos
    Grounds are ok to double (or triple in some cases), if allowed by the panel's manufacturer. Current carrying conductors (hot & neutral) are not.

    The problem was with the wording in the past NEC. The wording essentially stated that terminals for more than one conductor should be labeled by the panel's manufacturer. If you look at the label, you will find that they allow multiple grounding conductors under a single terminal screw, but not multiple grounded. As a result, many electricians and building inspectors believed that multiple neutrals were ok when they were not.

    I believe that in the 2002 NEC, the wording was changed so that it was clear that multiple neutrals could not be secured under a single terminal screw. I do not have the specific code sections in front of me.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    W.Va.
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    I don't have my 2011 code book in front of me but I believe the section you are looking for is 408.41. If you have the handbook it explains why only one neutral per lug is used. When troubleshooting a circuit with two neutrals under the same lug the circuit you are not working on could still be energized. Keith


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NY State
    Posts
    440

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by keithsines View Post
    When troubleshooting a circuit with two neutrals under the same lug the circuit you are not working on could still be energized. Keith
    Exactly. It is not as much of a safety issue under normal conditions as many would make it out to be. It becomes an issue during troubleshooting in that removing one conductor could create a live backfeed on the other if it became loose or free of the neutral buss.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    601

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Even more of an issue with doubled neutrals is the problems that arise if a multi wire circuit is involved.

    Another common misconception seems to be that if the hot wires are landed on a breaker that allows 2 wires to be terminated on it that the neutrals can be under the same screw. The NEC says otherwise.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Winfield View Post
    Couple questions ?? I made an inspection and noticed double tapping on the electrical panels. Somewhere I thought I heard that you could double up with neutrals to neutrals or ground to ground. But NOT a neutral with a ground.

    Not sure True or False ??

    See photos
    Is that a service panel or a downstream panel?

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,898

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Is that a service panel or a downstream panel?
    Really wouldn't matter. The rule of one neutral per hole would still apply.

    However, the neutrals would need to be isolated from the grounds in a non-service panel.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Really wouldn't matter. The rule of one neutral per hole would still apply.

    However, the neutrals would need to be isolated from the grounds in a non-service panel.
    Thus the reason for my question.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,898

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    I mis-understood the intent of your question Scott.


  10. #10
    Gary Winfield's Avatar
    Gary Winfield Guest

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Scott;

    These were (2) 200 amp panels, 240 volts side by side in the garage utility room. They were practically the same. I'm assuming they were service panels. All the entrance lines were underground.



    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southwest US
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    My guess would be that those are both downstream / branch / sub panels and the neutrals and grounds shouldn't be bonded but the picture is pretty blurry.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NY State
    Posts
    440

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson View Post
    My guess would be that those are both downstream / branch / sub panels and the neutrals and grounds shouldn't be bonded but the picture is pretty blurry.
    What do you base this on?


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southwest US
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    What do you base this on?
    Well, where I am a disconnect is required (by the power company) to be accessible outside of the home, usually that's done with a main breaker or 2. I don't know the rules in Tennessee


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,797

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Winfield View Post
    Somewhere I thought I heard that you could double up with neutrals to neutrals or ground to ground. But NOT a neutral with a ground
    WRT multiple neutrals under a single terminal, see: http://paragoninspects.com/articles/...e_neutrals.pdf

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  15. #15
    Gary Winfield's Avatar
    Gary Winfield Guest

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Good link Michael !!!

    Thanks


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NY State
    Posts
    440

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson View Post
    Well, where I am a disconnect is required (by the power company) to be accessible outside of the home, usually that's done with a main breaker or 2. I don't know the rules in Tennessee
    I see you are in the SW. Yes, this is common to your area, but not many others. In most of the country an outside disconnect is not required nor is it typical.


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southwest US
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: Electrical Panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    I see you are in the SW. Yes, this is common to your area, but not many others. In most of the country an outside disconnect is not required nor is it typical.
    I kind of figured that when you questioned me. Good to remember!


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •