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Thread: Kitchen island

  1. #1
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Kitchen island

    Single family home built in 05. There is one outlet on the left side of the island, that's it. Is an outlet required every 2 feet?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Its every four feet on regular counters as long as any point is within two feet of an outlet. Islands can have just one outlet unless a sink or rangetop seperates the space into two areas. Small islands or moveable ones do not require an outlet. Code varies from 02 to 05 on islands or is just explained more in 05.

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  3. #3
    Mike Inspector's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Gotta be GFCI protected. Any corbels on that upper part overhang?

    Mike


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    Default Re: Kitchen island

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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Time to get out the diamond saws.


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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Inspector View Post
    Gotta be GFCI protected. Any corbels on that upper part overhang?

    Mike
    Marble Institute only recommends corbels if the overhang is greater than 10 inches for 1.25 thick stone or more than 1/3 of the total stone top is cantilevered.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  7. #7
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Just one on the entire island, nothing under the over hang. Looks like one will do, the area to the right of the sink is less than 4 feet.


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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Just one on the entire island, nothing under the over hang. Looks like one will do, the area to the right of the sink is less than 4 feet.
    No not quite Mat. It would depend what version at the time of last modification.

    The area to the right of the sink is not determined that way. IF the area is 12" wide or wider from the sink edge and the counter depth is 24" then it must have a receptacle, otherwise is "orphaned". If the countertop is less than 12" wide from the sink edge to its end, it doesn't require to the right.

    The island isn't a flat one - the countertop has a backsplash/wall space - and then that dividing wall which also supports the elevated "bar" surface would have required a wall outlet or floor outlet w/in 18" of this "half wall" serving the area on the other side of the kitchen area/great room/area.

    As far as the Left, long side, you indicate there is only one receptacle location and it is off the furtherest leftmost edge out from the sink. That is not sufficient if the right side has length equal to or greater 12" at 1996 or 1999.

    The area 24" to the left of the sink edge must be served by a receptacle. That is to say for example, the island countertop 1" to the left of the sink edge needs to be no more than 24" from a receptacle, and may not pass over a break or obstruction to the countertop, that is not pass over the sink in this case.

    The area behind the sink and funky corner to the left back is exempt you can mark a line from the front most left sink corner and exempt the pie shaped wedge to the inside counter corner and to the sink side of that line.

    That area 36"+ to the left of the sink must be served by a receptacle no more than 24" away from the left edge of the basin/sink/etc.. 4' OC still requires no area of continuous countertop not be more than 24" from a receptacle.

    The left island/penninsula area (left of sink) needs more than one receptacle location - hence references to cutting the marble backsplash so as to install at least one additional location.

    The NEC actually includes diagrams, IIRC there were several in the 2002 NEC. As I recall ECM had a series of articles by Mike Holt highlighting changes including receptacle locations on countertops which he included slightly enchanced diagrams for 2002 NEC.

    1996 NEC saw some additional limitations and slight reductions on required receptacles for island and penninsula countertop areas in residential kitchens 210-52. Language in those exceptions, etc. wasn't too artfully constructed, 1999 additionally saw some changes. There was much debate as to IF dropped (below countertop) receptacles were allowed for other than adaptations for accessibility needs - or if not were subject to specific AHJ approval via 90-4 were required where special needs adaptations were not envoked. Most, including the editorial panel at ECM felt the language and NEC style guide at the time permitted without 90-4 and without special adaptations needs IF there was no wall or backsplash or overhanging surface within 18" above countertop surface. I don't recall at the moment if there was tweaking in 1999 or if it wasn't unitl 2002 where this area was fully tweaked out.

    The 1996 rules required island countertop receptacles to not be more than 18" above the countertop surface, and if using exception to place below surface, not more than 12" below, I think that was 210-52(c)(5) under the exception following same. I can't make out with the resolution and contrast, just where (how low) the receptacle is below the countertop at the side of the island.

    The sink breaks the line though - so the length of the countertop on the right of sink edge is important if equal to or greater than 12" since it appears full-depth.

    I recall the editors of ECM published their own intrep in 1996 as well June 1996 on kitchen countertop receptacles mounted below, which you may find on-point.

    Would depend on the era of the kitchen configuration construction. However if that countertop and backsplash material wasn't originally planned could very well be JBs burried behind that backsplash - wouldn't be the first time countertop installers failed to cut out for a plastic JB for receptacle with live or abandoned unconnected wiring or no wiring left behind.

    However using todays "safety standards" and frankly the pictured power supply sitting on the sink counter top to laptop - the orphaned from a receptacle, far more than 2" out from left side of sink, and full depth area requires SA circuit receptacle outlet, obviously GFCI protected due to sink proximity and overall location.

    Even though 1996 required only one outlet location for "island" the language was under much debate if there was constructive wall area - or as in this case a multi-tiered division of space with an exposed wall surface not obstructed with built-in cabinetry on the opposite side - such as pictured; which many took to require (esp. if more than 2' linear required wall/floor receptacles required - and if exposed "wall" area elevation 4' OC or 2' rule for countertop receptacles.

    If using more recent editions - things change and clarify yet again; For example 2011 NEC built-in cabinets, book shelves, etc. now exempt from the wall receptacle (or w/in 18" floor recpt) spacing requirements for that linear section of wall containing said "built-ins".

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 02-09-2011 at 09:41 AM.

  9. #9
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    The area to the right is 11 inches. The way I read it, an island can have one outlet, unless there is a sink or range with creating an area 24x12 on either side. That is not the case.


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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    True that may be, however, the point being as to the edition in effect and if any local ammendments, as the "island" countertop pictured is not necessarily "wall-less" with its backsplash and multi-tiered construction and may not be a "technical" island of the vintage, it depends on the ed. in effect, local ammendments, and the AHJ's interpretation and permission if required (such as 96/99) for approval for lower location, part of the ex. language. (May have to be logged in at ecmweb to bring up June '96 article display): Kitchen receptacles below countertops.

    1996/9 also yes, one minimum receptacle outlet required for "islands" and "Penninsulas" (NO WALL SPACE AREA - but the available wall elevation may make that moot since there appears to be a "half wall" behind those cabinets and further supporting the raised "eating area/bar" counter top and same "wall" extends above the "island" countertop.

    Even when permitting receptacles below the countertop surface - 96/99 still contained an absolute prohibition for same being installed in locating receptacles in the SIDES OF CABINETS. Face perhaps, side WALLS perhaps, but not in the actual sides of the cabinets themselves. As mentioned, can't make out detail below and side of photo "island" countertop at location of presumed receptacle at left.

    Thanks for clarifying area to right of sink only 11" not 12" or greater length.

    POINT being - that "island" may not actually be a countertop "Island" as it appears to have a partition wall - even a less than full height one - which exceeds the elevation of the kitchen side countertop and provides wall space along the length of the kitchen countertop work surface. It apparently also has been electrified, assuming that the receptacle is mounted not in the cabinetry side wall (as prohibited at least in some editions) but seems to be in the side of the dividing/partition wall which further supports the seating, raised, bar/countertop.

    Mike Holt's archieved 1999 NEC "code tips" article on receptacle locations: Mike Holt Mike Holt Code Resources

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 02-09-2011 at 10:14 AM.

  11. #11
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    That Island with the back splash should be treated as any7 counter top.

    If it were a flat island then it is another story. The reason being you have to run cords up and over the counter top or around as you did for your laptop. To the right of the sink would not be necessary. Not to mention sonething plugged in purched on such a narrow space would be hazardous. GFCIs do not always trip.


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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    As shown in the photo, and with the above information now known (the counter space to the right of the sink is only 11"):
    a) no receptacle is required to the right of the sink;
    b) a receptacle is required within 2' to the left of the sink and within every 4' thereafter;
    c) the back side of wall at the back of the cabinets needs a receptacle within 6' of each end (which means at least one receptacle is required for the wall space if the wall space is 12' or less in length as measured along the floor line).

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  13. #13
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Jerry,
    I would not consider the backsplash a wall. What constitutes a wall. I'm calling this an island


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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Jerry,
    I would not consider the backsplash a wall. What constitutes a wall. I'm calling this an island
    I'm not referring to the backsplash at the wall either, but it is the top of the wall on the countertop side - I was referring to the wall on the other side, facing the other room.

    From the photo ... I know of no AHJ which would consider that an "island" instead of a wall with a countertop and regular counter space. I guess one 'could' declare it to be such (an 'island') as it is unattached at either end, but its intent is not to be a flat top "island" but to serve as "counter space" which would require receptacles spaced out along it.

    Do you have a different photo which shows that as an island within the kitchen area and not as the defining wall space between the kitchen and the dining room on the other side of that half-high wall?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Inspector View Post
    Any corbels on that upper part overhang?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    Marble Institute only recommends corbels if the overhang is greater than 10 inches for 1.25 thick stone or more than 1/3 of the total stone top is cantilevered.
    And that definitely looks like more than 1/3 is cantilevered ... looks more like 80% is cantilevered ...

    As Mike said, were there any supports for that overhang?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Jerry,
    I would not consider the backsplash a wall. What constitutes a wall. I'm calling this an island
    I completely agree.
    An island with a backsplash is NOT treated as a typical wall counter.


  17. #17
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    I am not sure where you folks are getting this from. Half wall, wall, 12 foot wall, what does it matter. There is in fact a half wall built that this cabinetry is attached to. There is in fact no receptacles feeding this counter, and no you cannot count the receptacle on the other side of the wall. If it were a flat top Island then you can drop a cord over the side and plug in. In this case you either have to go around the wall or over the top of the breakfast counter.

    Where are you folks getting the thought of what is and what is not. Just a curious interest. Not bantering at all. Show me where this is not a wall with the cabinetry attached and the counter top has a back splash on it and there are no receptacles where there should be.

    You can look at it from the right, left, back or upside down it is still a wall with cabinets attached that has counter space on top. A wall is a wall, is it not


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I am not sure where you folks are getting this from. Half wall, wall, 12 foot wall, what does it matter. There is in fact a half wall built that this cabinetry is attached to.......

    .....Show me where this is not a wall with the cabinetry attached.....

    .......A wall is a wall, is it not
    As I read through this thread, this is exactly what I was thinking. IMO an island is a cabinet(s) by itself in the middle of the kitchen, the cabinets pictured are attached to what we call in this area a knee wall.


  19. #19
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    That counter needs another receptacle or two. You can see from the cord draped across the counter top it is a potential hazard.


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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Jerry,
    I would not consider the backsplash a wall. What constitutes a wall. I'm calling this an island
    The backsplash material (stone or faux stone looking product) is applied to a WALL - which said is clearly pictured behind the cabinets and topped with the higher elevation countertop/bar.

    Perhaps it might help you to understand if you go back and read the actual entire sub-section in the NEC in its entirety, which includes a section specific explanation/definition of a wall area relative to a counter (now counterTOP since 2008). It has been there since 1996, you'll find the explanation further enhanced in the area providing for allowances for receptacle below countertop for accessiblity 12" or less and not under overhang beyond 6" when above w/in (then 18", now 20") over hanging cabinet area not available nor wall space available.

    The wall is apparently already electrified, where you plugged in your laptop. The backsplash material can be cut the receptacles can be placed in the counter top/kitchen side of said partition wall.

    If you care to review the entire section in the 2011 NEC it makes further clarification - and incorporates non-solid partitions/guards in addition to walls - such as those near stairways, lofts, etc. regarding receptacle placement, etc. 2 feet or longer linear space unbroken, measured along the floor, including around corners, (inside or outside), etc.

    You might enjoy a personal perspective from a long participating member of CMP-2 (authored during the 2005 code-making cycle). The subject is generally and historically addressed near the end of the article, fourth page, the two paragraphs preceeding the "Personal Views" subtitle. Thomas Harman sat on the panel since the early 80s. He authored the attached article and it was published in IAEI news in the July/August 2003 edition, it is entitled: "A Personal View of NEC Code-Making Panel 2."

    You might also review the ROPs going back to the 1993 cycle and forward to and through 2002, if the "flatness" or non-existance of a wall or overhang w/in 18 now 20" above the counterTOP is still questioned, and review the actual complete sections of the NEC, as ammended by your jurisdiction.

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 02-11-2011 at 12:32 PM. Reason: oops! forgot to upload the article

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    Default Re: Kitchen island

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    The backsplash material (stone or faux stone looking product) is applied to a WALL - which said is clearly pictured behind the cabinets and topped with the higher elevation countertop/bar.
    Your opinion. I happen to disagree.



    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Perhaps it might help you to understand if you go back and read the actual entire sub-section in the NEC in its entirety, which includes a section specific explanation/definition of a wall area relative to a counter (now counterTOP since 2008). It has been there since 1996, you'll find the explanation further enhanced in the area providing for allowances for receptacle below countertop for accessiblity 12" or less and not under overhang beyond 6" when above w/in (then 18", now 20") over hanging cabinet area not available nor wall space available.

    The wall is apparently already electrified, where you plugged in your laptop. The backsplash material can be cut the receptacles can be placed in the counter top/kitchen side of said partition wall.

    If you care to review the entire section in the 2011 NEC it makes further clarification - and incorporates non-solid partitions/guards in addition to walls - such as those near stairways, lofts, etc. regarding receptacle placement, etc. 2 feet or longer linear space unbroken, measured along the floor, including around corners, (inside or outside), etc.

    You might enjoy a personal perspective from a long participating member of CMP-2 (authored during the 2005 code-making cycle). The subject is generally and historically addressed near the end of the article, fourth page, the two paragraphs preceeding the "Personal Views" subtitle. Thomas Harman sat on the panel since the early 80s. He authored the attached article and it was published in IAEI news in the July/August 2003 edition, it is entitled: "A Personal View of NEC Code-Making Panel 2."

    You might also review the ROPs going back to the 1993 cycle and forward to and through 2002, if the "flatness" or non-existance of a wall or overhang w/in 18 now 20" above the counterTOP is still questioned, and review the actual complete sections of the NEC, as ammended by your jurisdiction.
    It is amazing how much you can write without actually saying anything.


    Perhaps you can point to "the actual entire sub-section in the NEC" that defined this as a wall?


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