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  1. #1
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    Default Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Is this light fixture rated for location above a shower?

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  2. #2
    Vince Santos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    No. The light should be recessed with an approved cover for wet locations.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Hard to tell based on appearance alone. There should be a label if it is damp or wet rated.

    The fixture does not need to be recessed. It does need to be rated for damp locations at a minimum. It cannot be a pendant style or track lighting.


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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Hard to tell based on appearance alone. There should be a label if it is damp or wet rated.

    The fixture does not need to be recessed. It does need to be rated for damp locations at a minimum. It cannot be a pendant style or track lighting.
    Thanks, Vince. Thanks Jim. There's no visible label. I don't recognize the fixture, so I've called for it to be replaced by a qualified electrician. The homeowner is an electrician.
    So worst case, I've made a mistake, and he gets to be smarter than me.
    The breaker for his heat pump was one size too big. That's one I'm sure about.

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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Santos View Post
    No. The light should be recessed with an approved cover for wet locations.
    Not required to be recessed.

    That could well be a properly rated light fixture as I do not see any screws for mounting the glass globe to the base, that indicates the glass globe is a screw in type and many of those are gasketed.

    As Jim said, you would need to remove the glass globe and look for a sticker stating that it is suitable for use in damp locations, and, if subject to shower spray, then it would need to be marked as suitable for use in wet locations.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Not required to be recessed.

    That could well be a properly rated light fixture as I do not see any screws for mounting the glass globe to the base, that indicates the glass globe is a screw in type and many of those are gasketed.

    As Jim said, you would need to remove the glass globe and look for a sticker stating that it is suitable for use in damp locations, and, if subject to shower spray, then it would need to be marked as suitable for use in wet locations.
    Thank you. Jerry. Yes, I made a reasonable effort to unscrew the globe, but it required more force than I was willing to apply. That would have been the gasket, most likely.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Hi John this is a case where asking questions of the home owner might be benifical. it might be approved but when it burns out who is going to be there to change it or if the glass breaks can it be easily replaced because the blub burned out. this is something to make a note on even if it is not something that is deficient just to show you saw it and were aware that in the future it might be a problem but not impossible to resolve.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Not required to be recessed.

    That could well be a properly rated light fixture as I do not see any screws for mounting the glass globe to the base, that indicates the glass globe is a screw in type and many of those are gasketed.

    As Jim said, you would need to remove the glass globe and look for a sticker stating that it is suitable for use in damp locations, and, if subject to shower spray, then it would need to be marked as suitable for use in wet locations.
    Is there a minimum height above the shower floor or head,that the light is subject to shower spray?

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Santos View Post
    No. The light should be recessed with an approved cover for wet locations.

    Is recessed a Detroit requirement???


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Is there a minimum height above the shower floor or head,that the light is subject to shower spray?
    If the shower head can be adjusted to spray on the light, the light needs to be wet location rated.

    If there is a hand held shower head ... then, yes, the shower can quite easily spray on the light, the light would need to be wet location rated.

    The NEC simply states "or marked for wet locations where subject to shower spray.", and the light *is* "subject to shower spray" with an errant twist of the hand holding the hand held shower head. There WILL be those who will argue with that, but ... I will let them argue their losing side as long as they want to ...

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    If the shower head can be adjusted to spray on the light, the light needs to be wet location rated.

    If there is a hand held shower head ... then, yes, the shower can quite easily spray on the light, the light would need to be wet location rated.

    The NEC simply states "or marked for wet locations where subject to shower spray.", and the light *is* "subject to shower spray" with an errant twist of the hand holding the hand held shower head. There WILL be those who will argue with that, but ... I will let them argue their losing side as long as they want to ...
    I never really thought much about it, light in shower not being wet loc rated. If a hand held sprayer is in shower then wet loc rated req., so solution is if not wet rated then change head to a fixed head. Of course the hand held can be reinstalled after inspection.

    Which begs the question, should you always take a picture of the shower to show what was present during inspection and thus why or why not there was a comment on shower? The answer would be yes to CYA. I never thought about it much since I would always recommend that a wet rated fixture be present in the bath/shower location. Code no code, just good sense.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Santos View Post
    No. The light should be recessed with an approved cover for wet locations.

    Vince, good to see you back on the board. Its been awhile I think. Hope business is good for you.

    rick


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Vince, good to see you back on the board. Its been awhile I think. Hope business is good for you.

    rick
    Thanks Rick. I don't get on much here but I do browse as a guest once in a while. Business is fantastic and I couldn't be happier with the way things are going. Love doing inspections and getting plenty of work too.



    Concerning this thread. Recessed is not necessary, right on that, as long as the fixture is rated for wet locations. I came across this very thing today with a fixture and glass, screw on type, globe. No problem with that application if it can be verified as usable in wet locations.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    This one from today is definately not a damp rated fixture.

    rick

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected fixtures, hanging fixtures, lighting track, pendants or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 3 ft (914 mm) horizontally and 8 ft (2.44 m) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.


    680.43 Indoor Installations.
    (B) Installation of Luminaires (Lighting Fixtures), Lighting Outlets, and Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fans.
    (1) Elevation. Luminaires (lighting fixtures), except as covered in 680.43(B)(2), lighting outlets, and ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans located over the spa or hot tub or within 1.5 m (5 ft) from the inside walls of the spa or hot tub shall comply with the clearances specified in (a), (b), and (c) above the maximum water level.
    (a) Without GFCI. Where no GFCI protection is provided, the mounting height shall be not less than 3.7 m (12 ft).
    (b) With GFCI. Where GFCI protection is provided, the mounting height shall be permitted to be not less than 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.).
    (c) Below 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.). Luminaires (lighting fixtures) meeting the requirements of item (1) or (2) and protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be permitted to be installed less than 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.) over a spa or hot tub.
    (1) Recessed luminaires (fixtures) with a glass or plastic lens, nonmetallic or electrically isolated metal trim, and suitable for use in damp locations
    (2) Surface-mounted luminaires (fixtures) with a glass or plastic globe, a nonmetallic body, or a metallic body isolated from contact, and suitable for use in damp locations

    Would this include tub type spa's? since the NEC doesn't differnate.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Guy short answer yes it does include spa type tubs, as any tub any size is included here. the point is it is a damp area and protection is needed from spray and condensation. It may look great but is it safe that is why it is being inspected. being aware of the situation and writting it up is what we are there for. as to what happens after is up to the owner or new owner.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy W Opie View Post
    Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected fixtures, hanging fixtures, lighting track, pendants or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 3 ft (914 mm) horizontally and 8 ft (2.44 m) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.


    680.43 Indoor Installations.
    (B) Installation of Luminaires (Lighting Fixtures), Lighting Outlets, and Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fans.
    (1) Elevation. Luminaires (lighting fixtures), except as covered in 680.43(B)(2), lighting outlets, and ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans located over the spa or hot tub or within 1.5 m (5 ft) from the inside walls of the spa or hot tub shall comply with the clearances specified in (a), (b), and (c) above the maximum water level.
    (a) Without GFCI. Where no GFCI protection is provided, the mounting height shall be not less than 3.7 m (12 ft).
    (b) With GFCI. Where GFCI protection is provided, the mounting height shall be permitted to be not less than 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.).
    (c) Below 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.). Luminaires (lighting fixtures) meeting the requirements of item (1) or (2) and protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be permitted to be installed less than 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.) over a spa or hot tub.
    (1) Recessed luminaires (fixtures) with a glass or plastic lens, nonmetallic or electrically isolated metal trim, and suitable for use in damp locations
    (2) Surface-mounted luminaires (fixtures) with a glass or plastic globe, a nonmetallic body, or a metallic body isolated from contact, and suitable for use in damp locations

    Would this include tub type spa's? since the NEC doesn't differnate.

    The code article 680.43 is for hot tubs located indoors.

    If your looking for the requirements for hydromassage bathtubs commonly referred to as "jacuzzi" type tubs. Look at Part VII in article 680. When it comes to Hydromassage tubs and luminaires above them they must meet the requirements in the first four chapters of the NEC. So the same rules apply to showers as hydromassage tubs. ( article 680.72)


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    This one from today is definately not a damp rated fixture.

    rick
    Just needs a sign "No swinging from the chandelier".

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  19. #19
    Phil Brody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    This one from today is definately not a damp rated fixture.

    rick

    I would not call that out,there is more there than what the code addresses, common sense is a tool too.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    This one from today is definately not a damp rated fixture.

    rick
    Hey that looks just like my bathroom.




  21. #21
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    Listing and approval standards and premises electrical requirements, etc. are significantly and distinctly different for Canada than the U.S.

    In general, surface mounted or not, within 8' of the floor, or shower area threshold, and any portion over the shower area or subject to hand/arm contact while within the shower zone compartment, I wouldn't want to see conductive housing surface mounted or not, even above a theoretically sealed globe, unless completely electrically isolated, and/or gfci protected. The area is at minimum (U.S. NEC) damp location. and subject to collections of condensation, varying (high) degrees of humidity, and possibly subject to shower spray should there be other than a fixed, limited directional shower head.

    In the US most wet location fixtures are non-conductive surfaces, insulated/isolated from live parts, and gfci protected.

    If a body's arm/hand can make contact with the surface metal while in the shower (/tub?) area then it should be protected. Is the shower receptor (tub, etc.), drain and piping metallic/conductive & bonded? Is the supply plumbing metallic?

    Is that a metal (conductive?) - non-locking (twist type - no set screws, no mountings, just rubberized caps relying on tension to hold up) DIY type temporary spring tension rod for the curtain? Also not too wise - as such easily disturbed, especially with a glass globe and/or exposed conductive surface mounting - glass, contact, injury, generalized safety hazard for the most likely slip and fall zone of the average household, especially in such proximity to a luminaire. I absolutely hate those things! general surface tension condensation or an errant splash of soap, etc. running down can cause them to give way without warning and pop/expand like a pogo stick, twist themselves freely (unwind) and project wildly, before they come crashing down along with the curtain. All depends on which "size", the opening, and how tightly "wound" to begin with, and the integrity of the spring coil within and its "seating". IMHO they should never be used in a bathroom they are a hazard.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 04-01-2011 at 10:46 AM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Light fixture in shower ceiling

    You also have to think about the idiots who might be changing a bulb that burned out while they are taking a shower/bath...

    Michael Thomas
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