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  1. #1
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Waste line above panel

    Does the space above the panel need to be free of plumbing systems. Single family home built in 08 or 09.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    2008 NEC 110.26


    110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment. Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.


    (F) Dedicated Equipment Space.
    All switchboards, panelboards, distribution boards, and motor control centers shall be located in dedicated spaces and protected from damage.

    Exception: Control equipment that by its very nature or because of other rules of the Code must be adjacent to or within sight of its operating machinery shall be permitted in those locations.
    (1) Indoor.



    Indoor installations shall comply with 110.26(F)(1)(a) through (F)(1)(d).

    (a)


    Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.

    Exception: Suspended ceilings with removable panels shall
    be permitted within the 1.8-m (6-ft) zone.
    (b)



    Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated space required by 110.26(F)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain foreign systems, provided protection is installed to avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.


    Answer in your case is YES - the space needs to be free of plumbing systems. If the plumbing was above six feet it would be permitted if protection is installed.

    Plenty of other issues here too. Big bucks to get the electrical compliant.




    Last edited by Bill Kriegh; 04-05-2011 at 09:49 PM.

  3. #3
    Roger Frazee's Avatar
    Roger Frazee Guest

    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Ya gotta love it ... that is just an absurd installation.I'm not really sure where to begin .. I can tell you this a reputable electrician is going to improve his income fixing that mess.

    I can only hope that this was not passed by a electrical inspector and is one of those resourceful homeowner jobs.


  4. #4
    Tom Thompson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    If a separation was provided above the panel and not within the minimal distance required of the device/ panel, such as a hard lid ceiling would make this permissible in LA California. Each area would be considered separate areas of their own.


  5. #5
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Roger,
    I see to other issue, what are the other problems you speak of.


  6. #6
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Let me try that again. I see two other issues. Roger can you be more specific.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Roger,
    I see to other issue, what are the other problems you speak of.
    Most likely the bundling (bungling?) of all those feeders with not one staple in sight.

    I'm sure Roger will soon return to enlighten us further.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Question:
    Does the Ontario Electrical Safety Code permit plumbing such as a drain pipe or water pipes to be installed above an electrical panel?

    Answer:
    There is no Ontario Electrical Safety Code Rule that specifically prevents the installation of drain piping above an electrical panel board, provided that the pipe does not impede access to the electrical panel. Having said this, there is a rule that states that non-electrical equipment shall not be installed or placed so close to electrical equipment as to create a condition which is dangerous.

    It becomes a judgement call. If it is likely that condensation will drip off the pipes onto the electrical panel or if there are couplings, etc that may leak located above the panel, then corrective action should be taken. The solution may be as simple as insulating the pipes to prevent condensation, or installing some sort of drip shield between the pipes and panel.

    Rule 2-120.
    Ontario Electrical Safety Code 24th Edition/2009.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    While I totally agree that the pipe installation is STUPID ... there is this: (bold and underlining are mine)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kriegh View Post
    Indoor installations shall comply with 110.26(F)(1)(a) through (F)(1)(d).
    (a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Question Re: Waste line above panel

    Could that black pipe be for a 'central vac' system (i.e. different from the white PVC drain line above it)?

    RJDalga
    http://homeanalysts.com
    Kalamazoo, MI

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    "Could that black pipe be for a 'central vac' system (i.e. different from the white PVC drain line above it)?"

    My Uncle installs central vac systems.
    All the lines are 2" (I think), to keep things moving.
    The larger the line, the slower it moves.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  12. #12
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    While I totally agree that the pipe installation is STUPID ... there is this: (bold and underlining are mine)
    I have to agree..It is stupid but passes the code requirements. That is why a house has plans to avoid this situation.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    From what I see the piping is not above the panels.
    The piping is in the dedicated space for the panels.

    So like JP is leading to , it is OK.

    Sometimes these things just happen. With out seeing the house layout,both inside and outside. Without knowing the utility arrangement as far as the incoming electrical , It is hard to make an educated and accurate judgment on the stupidity of the situation. l


  14. #14
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Jerry,
    You can't tell from the photo,but that elbow in the upper right is directly over the right panel. The county came back out and said it needs a pan under the waste line.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    So the pipe goes into the wall cavity and up through the top plate ?


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    white is vac black is wack! is that an ashtray capping that pipe end?


  17. #17
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Yeah, the plate was cut


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Jerry,
    You can't tell from the photo,but that elbow in the upper right is directly over the right panel. The county came back out and said it needs a pan under the waste line.
    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    So the pipe goes into the wall cavity and up through the top plate ?
    Precisely what I was looking at - the pipe is in front of the studs with no visible fitting which goes off toward a stud cavity ... which means the pipe is not directly over the width and depth of the equipment.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  19. #19
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Jerry,
    Look at the smaller of the two elbows in the upper right of the picture. The smaller one goes directly over the panel, within the deph of the panel. You can't really tell from the pic so I'll let it slide this time


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    You can't really tell from the pic so I'll let it slide this time
    Whew!

    Thank you for not whacking me for not seeing that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    I was beginning to wonder if I was seeing what I thought I did. Regardless, there are so many things here that need attention - and all the county wants is a drip shield? Any pics of the tops of the panels? It sure looks like in addition to the obvious stuff there may be more than 2 cables through a few fittings by the way the cables seem to run.


  22. #22
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
    mathew stouffer Guest

    Default Re: Waste line above panel

    This really seams to piss people off, but plumbing is plumbing. Right

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