Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: hot tub panel

  1. #1
    Tony Vargas's Avatar
    Tony Vargas Guest

    Default hot tub panel

    hi in a sub panel for the hot tub connections is the code the same as for a subpanel indoors as far as neutral and ground(bonding) must be seperated, see pic

    Similar Threads:
    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    NHIE Practice Exam

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,898

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    Based on the limited view of the panel I would say that it is 240 volt only. I do not believe you are looking at a neutral sharing the buss with a ground. It appears that the feeder is a 2 wire + ground and the white has not been re-identified as a hot conductor. The enclosure does not appear to be bonded.

    Any panel downstream of the service equipment needs the neutrals isolated from the grounding conductors, regardless of location under the newer code revisions. Older codes did allow a 3 wire feeder to a DEtached structure and the neutral was again bonded to ground. There could be no other metallic paths between the buildings. If a metallic path like a phone line ran between the two building you still needed a 4 wire feeder.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Vargas View Post
    hi in a sub panel for the hot tub connections is the code the same as for a subpanel indoors as far as neutral and ground(bonding) must be seperated, see pic
    Panelboards that are not a part of the service equipment, and that supply any electrical equipment associated with the specified body of water.

    I'm seeing a 30/50/30 and a solid bare copper, and you've referenced a "hot tub", so already I'm concerned. Where is the GFCI protection.

    No; and maybe, it depends; and Special Provisions.

    Don't like what you've pictured, not one bit. Many concerns, however limited information provided don't care to start off with a laundry list on ambiguousness. We have no idea the vintage of the equipment, the installation, etc.

    Of course you've been unclear as to whether or not the "hot tub" packaged or otherwise is actually indoors or outdoors, and apparently we're to assume, and when it comes to 680 I prefer not to.

    See Chapter 3; Parts V, VI and VII of 2008 NEC Article 250; 680.6 (especially 7), and frankly review all of Article 680; for starters - begin first with a review of the Article Definitions.

    See:
    Packaged Spa or Hot Tub Equipment Assembly,
    Self-Contained Spa or Hot Tub,
    and
    Spa or Hot Tub.

    See also:
    Equipment, Fixed,
    Equipment, Portable,
    and
    Equipment, Stationary.

    When you've first determined what you have, you can next determine what the Code requires, which includes provisions from the Manufacturer(s) AND also requirements under the parameters of the UL Standard(s) for its Listing provisions.


    Tony Vargas, you haven't introduced yourself, and you've posted several questions already since you joined this month, and there isn't any information on your profile.

    Are you a student? Just starting out? Doing practice inspections?

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 04-27-2011 at 10:29 AM.

  4. #4
    Ray Norton's Avatar
    Ray Norton Guest

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    Without seeing the whole picture it looks to me like the hot tub also requires a 110 circuit to operate (timer,heater, whatever) and the non-electrician installer took the neutral from the ground connection.

    My comments if that were my inspection:
    1. Neutral bar is being used as the grounding bar.
    2. Identify the white wire with red tape to indicate 2nd phase.
    3. 3 wire circuit with a ground is required for this application. Add a neutral wire and connect to neutral bus bar.
    4. Add a separate single pole breaker for the 110-volt cicuit.
    5. Grounds shall be isolated from neutrals on separate grounding bar attached to panel.
    I think that's it. In short, get a qualified electrician to fix that mess.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,898

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    Both of the breakers in use are 240 volt. It is quite possible that the tub does not require a neutral.

    Note, almost all residential systems are a single phase consisting of 2 hot legs, not phases.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  6. #6
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    All the hot tubs I have wired (20 or so) required a 30, 40, 50, 60 amp GFCI breaker. Is there are GCFI breaker somewhere else in the circuit?


  7. #7
    Tony Vargas's Avatar
    Tony Vargas Guest

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    Thanks for all your help guys


  8. #8
    Lou Romano's Avatar
    Lou Romano Guest

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    There is no neutral landed in this panel! If this is a built in spa it may not require it, but the panel still is required to have a neutral landed in it and the breaker feeding the spa needs to be GFCI.

    Also if this feeds a portable spa tub it surely has a GFCI receptacle in it and requires a neutral. I have never seen a portable spa that did not have a GFCI receptacle factory installed.


  9. #9
    Glenn Mann's Avatar
    Glenn Mann Guest

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Vargas View Post
    hi in a sub panel for the hot tub connections is the code the same as for a subpanel indoors as far as neutral and ground(bonding) must be seperated, see pic

    Yep, keep 'em separate. Remember, the neutral is a current-carrying conductor. The ground wire should not be carrying current under normal operating conditions.


  10. #10
    Tony Vargas's Avatar
    Tony Vargas Guest

    Default Re: hot tub panel

    Thanks glen


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •