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Thread: Disposals

  1. #1
    Richard Roshak's Avatar
    Richard Roshak Guest

    Default Disposals

    Can someone post or quote the code that permitts a disposal to be wired to the kitchen counter circuit.
    I did a 15 year old home early this week, when I tripped the GFI outlet the disposal shut down. I thought this was an improper installation using nec 210.52 and 210.25. Now the township says I was wrong.

    Rich

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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Hello Richard,

    Article 210.25 pertains to apartment circuits extending into common areas, not kitchen circuits.

    210.52 (b)(1)(2)(3) does pertain to this issue. If you are looking at the NEC handbook, Exhibit 210.25 shows two examples. The disposer is not supposed to be on the kitchen small appliance branch circuit as you indicated.

    The AHJ can allow or disallow pretty much anything they want.

    As a home inspector, do you believe this is a problem (disposer on the small appliance branch circuit)?

    Sincerely,

    Corey


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Hi Richard, Welcome to the board...

    I can't help you with the code # but can tell you my own 1989 house is wired that way. I believe sometime in the 90's is when a lot of the kitchen wiring changed and disposals became dedicated.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Disposal is General Electric's unit. Disposer is everyone else's.

    My anal contribution for the day!

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Disposal is General Electric's unit. Disposer is everyone else's.

    My anal contribution for the day!
    Actually, being more anal today that Eric was, they are "food waste grinders".

    From the IRC
    - SECTION P2716
    - - FOOD WASTE GRINDER
    - - - P2716.1 Food waste grinder waste outlets. Food waste grinders shall be connected to a drain of not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) in diameter.
    - - - P2716.2 Water supply required. Food waste grinders shall be provided with an adequate supply of water at a sufficient flow rate to ensure proper functioning of the unit.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Disposals

    Richard....

    I agree with you. NEC 210.11.(C)(1) and 210.52.(B)(1) support your position. The AHJ may have the final say but that does not make you wrong.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Always keep this handy, I've posted it before.

    The inspector, even the building official, DOES NOT have the authority to make those kinds of interpretations.

    From the IRC.

    SECTION R104
    - DUTIES AND POWERS OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL
    - - R104.1 General.
    The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in conformance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not
    have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: Disposals

    Jerry:

    Thanks for bringing up the AHJ code reference. Too many inspectors, builders, et al. mistakenly believe that the AHJ's take on things in the final say. It is not.

    If anyone thinks it is then consider this in addition to the R104.1 reference:

    (1) If someone disagrees with the AHJ the matter will then be decided by the municipal construction board of appeals.

    (2) If someone disagrees with the decision by the construction board of appeals, the matter will then be decided by the local district court.

    (3) And so on up the legal ladder.

    AHJs love to perpetuate the myth that the were born in mangers, walk on water, etc. That's just not the case. I have spent many hours pre-trial and on the stand testifying against them and their dubious decisions.

    Aaron Miller, CEI, CMI, CRI


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Using the same cu\ircuit for both the counter and the disposal is not a code problem.

    210.52(B)(3) says "Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be ........ permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen."

    Now, code rules aside .... were I to do this, I would have the disposal before the GFI. Non-countertop receptacles are not required to be GFCI protected (see 210,8(A)(6)), and the disposal may become a source of nuisance tripping.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Quote Originally Posted by John Steinke View Post
    Using the same cu\ircuit for both the counter and the disposal is not a code problem.

    210.52(B)(3) says "Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be ........ permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen."

    Now, code rules aside .... were I to do this, I would have the disposal before the GFI. Non-countertop receptacles are not required to be GFCI protected (see 210,8(A)(6)), and the disposal may become a source of nuisance tripping.

    Hi John,

    If I understand your post correctly, you are saying that a disposer receptacle can be part of the small appliance counter top receptacle circuit.

    This is incorrect and a disposer cannot be on the counter receptacle, small appliance circuit.

    210.52(B)(3) also references back to 210.52(B)(1) which specifically indicates wall and floor receptacles and references 210.52(c)(1).

    The two, 20 amp small appliance circuits are for portable items like a toaster or Mr. Coffee. 210.52(B)(1) specifically allows a refrigerator. Things like dishwashers, disposers and hood fans are considered fixed in place and not allowed on this circuit.

    Sincerely,

    Corey Friedman


  11. #11
    Dave Rice's Avatar
    Dave Rice Guest

    Smile Re: Disposals

    In the Code Check Electrical book by REDWOOD KARDON, DOUGLAS HANSEN AND MICHAEL CASEY on page 16 under Branch Circuits it says on the last line
    " DW & disposer usually req sep circuits.......(430-53a) under years 1999 and 2000 and as far as I understand that still stands. Wiring them to the counter circuits would throw the GFCI required breakers because of the turning on and off all the time of the disposal and the operation of the DW circuit. Hope this helps.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Rice View Post
    Wiring them to the counter circuits would throw the GFCI required breakers because of the turning on and off all the time of the disposal and the operation of the DW circuit.

    Huh? Why?

    Explain that to me. Thanks.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Disposals

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Rice View Post
    In the Code Check Electrical book by REDWOOD KARDON, DOUGLAS HANSEN AND MICHAEL CASEY on page 16 under Branch Circuits it says on the last line
    " DW & disposer usually req sep circuits.......(430-53a) under years 1999 and 2000 and as far as I understand that still stands. Wiring them to the counter circuits would throw the GFCI required breakers because of the turning on and off all the time of the disposal and the operation of the DW circuit. Hope this helps.
    Hi Dave,

    Article 430.53 deals with motor loads in general and not just DW or disposers. If a disposer met the requirements indicated in Article 430.53 you could put it on the same circuit as the counter top receptacles, except that it isn't allowed because of the requirements in 210.

    If the disposer (or DW) was wired to the line side of the counter top GFCI the concerns of tripping a GFCI is eliminated. Tripping the GFCI is not the issue.

    There is no requirement that the GFCI protection be a breaker.

    There is no year 2000 NEC.

    Sincerely,

    Corey


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