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  1. #1
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Double tapped lugs in service

    This is a single family home built in 06 9000ft. I could not quite figure this out. There are 3 breakers with associated feeders heading to 3 interior panels. However, the cables supplying the disconnect are double tapped into the lugs. Why are there 4 cables.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    What size breakers were feeding those cables and breakers? I am wondering if they tried to parallel instead of running larger cables.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    Unless those lugs are listed for two conductors you have a code violation.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    What size breakers were feeding those cables and breakers? I am wondering if they tried to parallel instead of running larger cables.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Farrell View Post
    Unless those lugs are listed for two conductors you have a code violation.
    I believe that is where Jim was going with his "if they tried to parallel", with emphasis on "they tried" ... as their attempt ended up being unsuccessful.

    The neutrals are not allowed to be paralleled into the same terminal *even if* the terminal is rated for two conductors.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    SWAG, taps.

    Utility Interactive Inverter System, supply side connection. Old ref:
    690.64(A)/230.82(6).

    Should be a nearby/adjacent switch.

    Wrong way to tap (sharing a lug with two different sized conductors) but is easily corrected.

    Where's the meter and/or ped? Should be a directory there indicating where safety switch is for POCO. On another building or structure? Transformer?

    Looks a bit shy width wise for working space clearance (btwn projecting stone wall vs. projecting down pipe) trapped in "ell" inside corner -- wrong way swing door contact metal downs.

    Here's an article for you (link below), HTH.

    Supply-side PV Utility Connections | IAEI Blog

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 05-31-2011 at 06:39 PM.

  6. #6
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    I could not find the meter. Have to go back for a radon test, will look around, it may be down over the bank/cliff It was a pretty big lot. So in summary, this is incorrect?


  7. #7
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    One more pic. The breakers are 200amps.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    If I understand you correctly, you have 3 2-pole 200 amp breakers in that enclosure. The wiring to the breakers would need to be 2/0 copper or 4/0 AL if it served the entire load of the dwelling. You have 3 panels so Table 310.16 would need to be used, not 310.15(B).

    If so, I think there is some seriously undersized wiring installed. The conductors into the lugs appear to be close in size to the feeder conductors, although they are CU.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    When you've located the utility demark and service point let us know.

    Suspect it is elsewhere and may be upon another structure.What is incorrect is the sharing of two different sized conductors in the "hot" lugs, and the sharing of the neutral lug. There are appropriate means to tap and plenty of room to employ most any of those means - shown is not done (sharing the lugs) correctly.

    The scaring on the projecting "stone" wall surface at the bottom right seems operating the door is an issue as is the close proximity/restricted air space. Again downs pipe on the left restricting of clear workspace - is this actually outdoors or is this inside?

    Top 2 breaker handles look distinctly different from that at the bottom, that not a slant rated breaker on the bottom?

    I would like to see your straight shot photo of the panel label and bus/wiring diagram.

    Can not make out any markings or detail on either the panel label or the breakers using the images you supplied (even when blown up).

    Last picture in the first set, and the Latest post additional picture shows latches access and possible function obstructed too, and an opening in the bottom right back wall of the cabinet/can, which is unprotected, unbushed, nippled, clamped, etc. unclosed/unsealed opening back bottom right with an unprotected and unrestrained cable conductor fished through it.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 06-01-2011 at 11:55 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    FTR, the double-lugged conductors appear to be equal in gauge, but over-lapped slightly.
    Wrong, nevertheless.

    I would simply call for an electrician to make the corrections, including the missing cable clamp and check the gauge of the service conductors. The connections at the main breaker will also need to be checked and repaired.

    Last edited by John Kogel; 06-01-2011 at 06:05 PM. Reason: added thought
    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  11. #11
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double tapped lugs in service

    I will get some more pics. Wow H.G good eye on the stone, that cover was a major pain in the ass to open and close.


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