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Thread: Kitchen Island

  1. #1
    Clay E White's Avatar
    Clay E White Guest

    Default Kitchen Island

    Last edited by Clay E White; 01-04-2008 at 01:32 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Hello Clay,

    The island is required have a GFCI receptacle.

    Sure, it should have been installed during remodeling. It may have been overlooked and then reached a point in the remodeling where a decsion was made to skip it. The remodeler or DIY'r may have not known that it was needed. There may have been a very conscious decision not to do it, wanting to avoid saw cutting, expense or elt they didn't need it Who knows?

    Almost nothing in construction / remodleing is impossible. How much it will cost and is it worth it is another story. A typical floor slab can usually be saw cut fairly easily. It sure would be a lot easier without any cabinets installed, finished flooring, etc. To do it now whould be a hassle and expensive.

    Sincerely,

    Corey


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay E White View Post
    Did a 1963 home that underwent extensive remodel. In the kitchen they added a kitchen island. However, the island does not have any GFCI receptacle outlets.

    - Are GFCI outlets required for kitchen islands? (I think they are...). Should they had install during remodel?

    - How would they install the outlets to the island since this is a slab foundation , seems impossible to me!
    Is the island attached to the floor? Some AHJ's do not require outlets if the island is not attached to the floor and is considered movable or a temporary fixture.

    If this is a concern to you, I would simply note that the island has no electrical outlets.

    I have seen several islands with a power pole that goes up to the ceiling and the power is dropped through the attic to the island. It all depends if you want a pole or no power.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    That's one of the drawbacks of a slab foundation.

    "Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
    Bruce Breedlove
    www.avaloninspection.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    If the island has plumbing or electric, that means it is anchored to the floor (or, at least should be anchored to the floor). If this is the case, it is required to have a receptacle outlet.

    If the island is just 'counter space' and is on casters, then it is not addressed, but, if it is 'setting on the floor', then it needs to be secured down. If it is not on wheels, it is required to have a receptacle outlet.

    Now, *regardless how much trouble it is or how much it costs* (the HI does not, should not, care about those things, the HI *SHOULD* write it up as a GFCI is missing and is required, and should be installed.

    At that point, whether it gets installed or not, now it is up to your client and the seller to negotiate it and decide if it gets installed, and, if it is to be installed, who pays for it. None of which the HI should be concerned with - 1) *it is required*, 2) *it should be written up as needing to be required*.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
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    Reno, Nv. - Now St. Louis, Mo.
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    How big is the island, and what else is on it?

    The receptacle requirement applies only to spaces more than 24" long and 12" deep. If the island were filled, say, with a stove (or sink), with only small spaces around it, no receptacle would be necessary.

    Or, to go the other extreme ... an island large enough to house Gilligan (and friends), but without any divisions, would need but one receptacle.


  7. #7
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    Oct 2003
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    Rockwall Texas
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    4,517

    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    You might also check those island counters and make sure they are secured to the floor.

    I leaned on one the other day and nearly pushed it out the back door.

    Some are portable I know, but most aren't intended to be.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Outlets at counter with sink on far side of this island have correct GFCI protection and can serve island top. But... GFCI protection needed on wall outlets near baseboard on this side?... corded appliance on the island top could be plugged in there...

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Nope, no GFCI protection required for that receptacle outlet.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Per 2002 NEC

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    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Outlets at counter with sink on far side of this island
    Michael,

    The photo you posted is not an island in the kitchen, it is the perimeter wall separating the family room (guessing) from the kitchen, and it has a portion of the kitchen countertop space with the kitchen sink in it.

    Thus, referring to this as an "island" could lead to the builder installing *ONE* receptacle for it and saying it meets the code, and it would not, because it is not an "island" in the kitchen. It requires receptacle outlets at 2' and 4' from the ends and from the sink.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Humm... is "island" actually defined somewhere?


  13. #13
    David Banks's Avatar
    David Banks Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Humm... is "island" actually defined somewhere?
    Because the wall reaches to the ceiling you have a peninsula and not an Island.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Even if that did not have a wall which reached to the ceiling, it would not be an "island".

    What you basically have is a perimeter wall of the kitchen with an opening on each side of it, that is not an island.

    An island is an isolated countertop space within the confines of the kitchen area, not part of the defining perimeter of the kitchen area.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Even if that did not have a wall which reached to the ceiling, it would not be an "island".

    What you basically have is a perimeter wall of the kitchen with an opening on each side of it, that is not an island.

    An island is an isolated countertop space within the confines of the kitchen area, not part of the defining perimeter of the kitchen area.
    Jerry:

    I another life I was a cabinetmaker. We referred to the countertops at the perimter of a kitchen as "outriggers". So we had counters, counters with extensions or peninsulas, islands, and outriggers.

    As to the requirement for GFCIs on the opposite side of these "defining perimeters", all AHJs in this area require them. The idea being that though the builder may not have "intended" them to be for countertop service, if they are able to be used for countertop equipment they must be GFCI protected. And I agree.

    Aaron


  16. #16
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
    Richard Rushing Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Jerry:

    I another life I was a cabinetmaker. We referred to the countertops at the perimter of a kitchen as "outriggers". So we had counters, counters with extensions or peninsulas, islands, and outriggers.

    As to the requirement for GFCIs on the opposite side of these "defining perimeters", all AHJs in this area require them. The idea being that though the builder may not have "intended" them to be for countertop service, if they are able to be used for countertop equipment they must be GFCI protected. And I agree.

    Aaron

    Almost right. The only one that I know for sure that does not require them at this location is Irving.

    rr


  17. #17
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rushing View Post
    Almost right. The only one that I know for sure that does not require them at this location is Irving.

    rr
    Richard:

    Well, yes, then there is Irving . . . This is a place that, until about 6 months ago, stated on their official city website that their adopted code was UBC. When, in fact, it was mandated by the state to be IRC since 2001. This bastion of construction ignorance which yet allows for the building of slab-on-grade construction in the most expansive soil in the continental United States.

    Aaron

    Aaron


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    BTW, that outlet is on a wall in Chicago, if anyone here happens to know the if the city requires that it be GFCI protected.

    Last edited by Michael Thomas; 08-27-2007 at 09:13 AM.

  19. #19
    Carmen Muto's Avatar
    Carmen Muto Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay E White View Post
    Did a 1963 home that underwent extensive remodel. In the kitchen they added a kitchen island. However, the island does not have any GFCI receptacle outlets.

    - Are GFCI outlets required for kitchen islands? (I think they are...). Should they had install during remodel?

    - How would they install the outlets to the island since this is a slab foundation , seems impossible to me!
    Hi Clay, The conduit is running up thru the slab, If the outlet is not conected to the GFCI thru the outlet on the counter it should be. Carmen Muto, CCL HOME INSPECTIONS IL.


  20. #20
    Patrick Belcher's Avatar
    Patrick Belcher Guest

    Unhappy Re: Kitchen Island

    I have a concern that when the backside of a cabinet is exposed to another room or area, and an outlet is installed on one of the exposed sides; a child could pull an appliance down from the counter top. Wearing a crockpot full of hot soup as a hat could be painful. Does the code address this condition?

    Patrick Belcher
    U.S. Inspect


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    The only way it is addressed is that all kitchen counter tops are to be served by GFCI outlets. If these outlets are in place, then running a cord to the other side of the wall to another rooms outlet should not be needed.
    The outlet serving the other room is not even required to be GFCI protected.
    But remember this is the Minimum required, common sense might be used to prevent a Darwin award.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Kitchen Island

    BTW, just ran into this option for an island outlet:

    Sillites - Candle For The Window | Electric Window Candles | Flush Mount Receptacle

    looking at their site, they also claim it can be used as a floor box:

    Sillites - Candle For The Window | Electric Window Candles | Flush Mount Receptacle

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

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