Results 1 to 28 of 28
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Ground strap jumper

    Does anyone know if these shark bite pipe fittings need a ground strap jumper when breaking copper pipe bond? They have metallic teeth but I can't find where it says anything about use in ground continuity. Thanks.

    Similar Threads:
    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Inspection Referral

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    That's a very good question, and I don't have a real answer. But when looking at your diagram, it looks like they would need one. Have you tried contacting the manufacturer?

    Why not test for continuity?

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    I went to the Mfg. website, didn't see anything, but I didn't spend time looking for technical specs either.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Just by looking at the design, I don't see how continuity is possible. I would test it just for my own head, but I have a strong feeling there is a break.

    Unless I learn differently, as far as I am concerned, there is a break.

    Good catch.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky View Post
    Just by looking at the design, I don't see how continuity is possible. I would test it just for my own head, but I have a strong feeling there is a break.

    Unless I learn differently, as far as I am concerned, there is a break.

    Good catch.
    I'm thinking the same thing. It is a break and just because it has continuity does not mean it's adequate for ground bond. There's other factors involved. I'll have to do some more research on this. Thanks


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,251

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    I'm thinking those grab ring teeth should make a continuity connection when copper is used.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Hi Jerry,

    That was my first thought too, but if you look at the diagram, it looks like those teeth are seated in the plastic.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    OK, I just grabbed a Shark Bite and tested it for continuity (at the teeth). No. There is no continuity.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,251

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    I just sent them an email asking them about electrical continuity through the SharkBite fitting when used with copper pipe.

    Hopefully I will get an answer tomorrow.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky View Post
    OK, I just grabbed a Shark Bite and tested it for continuity (at the teeth). No. There is no continuity.
    ah ha..good job Steve. I have one of those right here and didn't test. I would have thought it did have continuity but wasn't sure if it qualified for proper grounding. Definitely not if there's no continuity.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    I'm curious as to what Shark Bite responds to Jerry's inquiry. I looked at the connector I tested and it's not made by Shark Bite. The one I have is made by A.Y. McDonald Mfg. It's made in China, and is a knock off.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    well I still can't find anything in the mfg. specs and procedures manuals. Steve you are right. I'm looking at the one I have here and there is no continuity because everything is inside the plastic liner including the SS teeth. The only part where the copper pipes would contact metal is at the second stage stop inside the brass housing. But it is not a mechanically fastened connection. The pipes are merely touching the brass which is not an adequate or reliable contact for continuity. It will be interesting what Jerry finds out. But in the meantime, I deem it neccesary to have a ground jumper across these fittings and I bet a dollar Shark-Bite says the same thing.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,251

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Rogers View Post
    I'm looking at the one I have here and there is no continuity because everything is inside the plastic liner including the SS teeth.
    While I am waiting for their response ...

    That plastic sleeve is to be removed when copper or CPVC is used, that sleeve only stays in place for PEX, PB, etc., and only copper would need continuity anyway.

    The way to know, and we are heading out for vacation so I will not be able to check for a while (we have a house sitter staying here to take care of the cat) but ... the only way to really check is to remove the plastic sleeve and install two pieces of copper in each end, then check for continuity.

    However, I hope to have an answer from SharkBite long before we get back.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    What version of the NEC are you using? Do you believe the unbonded portion of the copper piping is likely to become energized?


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    While

    That plastic sleeve is to be removed when copper or CPVC is used, that sleeve only stays in place for PEX, PB, etc., and only copper would need continuity anyway.

    .
    The sleeve that the SS teeth are in are not part of the removable sleeve/bushing that goes inside of the PEX. When the removable sleeve is removed, the teeth remain. Unless there is something specifically different about "Shark Bites" I am sure there is no continuity.

    Jerry, Have a nice trip, come home safely.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by TR Platt View Post
    What version of the NEC are you using? Do you believe the unbonded portion of the copper piping is likely to become energized?
    I don't believe this thread is based upon NEC, it is more a practical question. I don't know the odds of the unbonded portion becoming energized, I would imagine the same as any part becoming energized.

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    No Jerry. maybe you're referring to the plastic pipe liner (goes inside the pipe) which can be either removed or left in. That's something different. But you can't remove the nylon sleeve and even if you could the the whole thing will fall apart.


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    yeah, I seriously doubt the NEC could care about Shark bite connectors. But NEC does care about copper pipe bond and continuity to ground. No it's not likely that any ground circuit becomes energized but if it does, it will go to earth instead of across your heart when you grab the sink faucet. . Assuming the continuity is not broken by a Shark bite fitting.


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,251

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Rogers View Post
    Assuming the continuity is not broken by a Shark bite fitting.
    If the continuity is broken by the SharkBite fitting, the shark will bite ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    885

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    If the continuity is broken by the SharkBite fitting, the shark will bite ...
    Okay, I will buy a SharkBite fitting and connect two separate pieces of copper pipe then test for continuity and resistance value between the two pieces of pipe with no water. I will then cap the end of one pipe, fill the tube with distilled water and retest to see if there is any difference. This test would be followed by one using local public tap water. If I had a water softener system, I would add a check using the water with a higher than normal salt content.

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    winslow, maine
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Rogers View Post
    Does anyone know if these shark bite pipe fittings need a ground strap jumper when breaking copper pipe bond? They have metallic teeth but I can't find where it says anything about use in ground continuity. Thanks.
    Electrical Conductivity
    The Sharkbite fitting does not guarantee electrical conductivity when used with copper tubing. This is sometimes referred to as a dielectric system.

    SharkBite - Electrical conductivity



  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Point Richmond, California
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Great input Marcel, but now the question "can they be used in place of a dialectric union?" comes to mind. Not to change the subject.

    Bruce M Audretsch

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    There ya have it. I kinda figured they'd take that position. Makes sense, They're not in the electrical biz. and that internal collar is non-conductive, even if the copper pipes do touch. It's no guarantee of good and reliable continuity.


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,251

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Cyr View Post
    Electrical Conductivity

    The Sharkbite fitting does not guarantee electrical conductivity when used with copper tubing. This is sometimes referred to as a dielectric system.


    Marcel,

    I looked through their web pages and did not find that, glad you found it.

    Thank you.

    Now I've got to remember if any plumber has used those fitting in some of the tankless installations I've inspected and address that for bonding jumpers - I am sure that there is one plumber who has used those with copper (I know a few installations which used CPVC, but conductivity would not matter with CPVC).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    mt, clemens Mi.
    Posts
    8

    Thumbs up Re: Ground strap jumper

    good thread, i need to recheck a couple of those myself


  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast Virginia, Hampton roads
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    here's the email I just got from SharkBite
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    It’s recommended you use a jumper. Although the metal will most likely be in adjacent to the fittings. There is a chance only the rubber o ring may be in contact with the pipe.
    Ben Wertz
    Cash Acme
    A Division of the Reliance Worldwide Corporation
    Ph: (205) 803-4516


  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,251

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    And here is the email I received today:

    We recommend jumping the fitting. In most cases the copper pipe will be adjacent to the brass fitting. However, it is possible the pipe only touches the rubber o ring and not the fitting.

    Thanks,

    Ben Wertz

    Cash Acme
    [FONT='Corbel','sans-serif']A Division of the Reliance Worldwide Corporation[/FONT]
    [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Ph: (205) 803-4516[/FONT]

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    2,481

    Default Re: Ground strap jumper

    I bet this Ben Wertz is wondering why he just received a bunch of questions on the same topic.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •