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Thread: Shinners

  1. #1
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    Default Shinners

    Is there a maximum allowed bare wire at the breaker?

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    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Basically, yes.

    The breaker will have a "strip gage" on it, typically molded into the side of the case, and that is the length the wire should be stripped back, and that length will provide the wire seating into the terminal and almost no extra stripped wire.

    I've often heard that 1/4 inch is allowed, but I have not found that stated anyplace when I was looking for it (which was years ago, I have not looked for it in recent years).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Thanks Jerry, I think I'll go out on a limb and call this too much.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Thanks Jerry, I think I'll go out on a limb and call this too much.
    Vern,

    Instead of calling it too much was stripped, call it as "unsafe, this condition was caused by stripping the insulation back farther than necessary".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Thanks Jerry, I think I'll go out on a limb and call this too much.

    There is enough insulation stripped back that you could cross the 2 conductors & short circuit them, your not going out on a limb, IMHO.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    There is enough insulation stripped back that you could cross the 2 conductors & short circuit them, your not going out on a limb, IMHO.
    Even though I knew I was not going to touch or get shocked by them, I had that same feeling you get when an unloaded gun is pointed at you.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    There is enough insulation stripped back that you could cross the 2 conductors & short circuit them, your not going out on a limb, IMHO.
    One slip of the screw driver anywhere near them and you could find out what an arc flash looks like (worst case) or do some arc welding (best case).

    How do you make a long screw driver into a stubby? Hold it across those two wires ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Shinners

    that one is a good call to call out on. no limbs involed. that is just plain dangerous. someone messed up and any first year sparky could tell you that. looks like a diy job and someone didn't care enought to fix it right.

    and thanks Jerry for the note of the strip gage. good imfo!!


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Strip gauges are a underused aid, just look at how many poorly done cord caps & connectors there are that would have been done right if the installer had used the strip gauge.......


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    Strip gauges are a underused aid, just look at how many poorly done cord caps & connectors there are that would have been done right if the installer had used the strip gauge.......
    Yes, and a strip gage is molded into almost every receptacle, switch, etc., too. Probably look at any item with a terminal connection and you will find a strip gage.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Shinners

    NECA 1, cited in (2008) NEC, 110.12 FPN states that "Terminations of insulated conductors.....stripped length of bare conductor is not longer than required for the equipment terminal, lug or connector. The conductor insulation shall bear against the terminal or connector shoulder, but not extend into the terminator point." NECA 1 Chapter 9, section o

    Donald W. Kane, PE


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Kane View Post
    NECA 1, cited in (2008) NEC, 110.12 FPN states that "Terminations of insulated conductors.....stripped length of bare conductor is not longer than required for the equipment terminal, lug or connector. The conductor insulation shall bear against the terminal or connector shoulder, but not extend into the terminator point." NECA 1 Chapter 9, section o

    Donald W. Kane, PE
    There we have it ... NO extra insulation is allowed to be trimmed off - and that makes sense too as the uninsulated conductor which is outside the terminal is a potential hazard, and Vern's photo shows an exaggerated example of the condition and why it is not allowed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Shinners

    Your opinion is not enforceable although reasonable.
    The strip gage length is enforceable per 110.3(b).
    Whether a fuse block or breaker termination, most include a pocket of sorts that protect to some degree, incidental contact via a stray screwdriver or finger.
    As an AHJ, I consider this 'pocket' to be the Manufacturers' listed intent in which to contain terminations. This of course is my opinion as to interpreting the intent of said pocket.


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